Warren's 350 MAC mid-drive (finally) recumbent

[Warren]

Guys,

I have finally gotten my mid-drive recumbent together. I have ridden it on four, hilly, 16 mile rides. Spinning the freewheeling hub over is hardly noticeable. Two of those rides were done with 24 pounds of dumbbells strapped under the seat to simulate the battery pack. Only slowed me down about a mile per hour average. Mechanically, everything works great, and I've got all the wiring done. I mounted a 10 amp, 125 volt mini, spst toggle switch in the end plate of the controller, wired into the little red wire to power up the controller. I shortened up the phase wires, and Hall wires, since it is only about a foot from the mid-drive to the controller. I used Anderson Powerpoles on the phase wires, and from the controller to the Cycle Analyst, and CA to fuse, and to future battery.

Before I spring for a mega-dollar pack, I want to put the bike on my stationary trainer, and check out the various electrical functions. I am thinking of running jumper wires from the batteries in our two cars, in series, for 24 volts to power it up. Will the motor and controller function on 24 volts?

Warren

[dumbass]

Guys,

I have finally gotten my mid-drive recumbent together. I have ridden it on four, hilly, 16 mile rides. Spinning the freewheeling hub over is hardly noticeable. Two of those rides were done with 24 pounds of dumbbells strapped under the seat to simulate the battery pack. Only slowed me down about a mile per hour average. Mechanically, everything works great, and I've got all the wiring done. I mounted a 10 amp, 125 volt mini, spst toggle switch in the end plate of the controller, wired into the little red wire to power up the controller. I shortened up the phase wires, and Hall wires, since it is only about a foot from the mid-drive to the controller. I used Anderson Powerpoles on the phase wires, and from the controller to the Cycle Analyst, and CA to fuse, and to future battery.

Before I spring for a mega-dollar pack, I want to put the bike on my stationary trainer, and check out the various electrical functions. I am thinking of running jumper wires from the batteries in our two cars, in series, for 24 volts to power it up. Will the motor and controller function on 24 volts?

Warren

I'm sure not an expert but that on.off switch yo4 installed isn't really an on/off switch. o my knowledge it will only turn off your control not the actual controller. I think you need to put a switch directly inline between the pack and the controller.

Y64r 2 car batteries will work fin for our testing (assuming you remove then from the cars first)/ Bob

[Warren]

Bob,

"To my knowledge it will only turn off your control not the actual controller. I think you need to put a switch directly inline between the pack and the controller."

Yes. I believe it prevents the FET's from being switched on. Keeps curious hands from getting in trouble. I will be unplugging the pack, when not on a ride.

"Your 2 car batteries will work fine for our testing"

Actually, Paul (cell_man) informs me that the 36 volt controller has a 31 volt LVC. I will be commandeering several of my neighbor's lawn tractor batteries this weekend. Nice to have good neighbors.

Warren

[dumbass]

Sorry somehow I was thinking you had dropped down to a 24v system somewhere alone the way....My Bad! Looks like you'll need a buddies car as well then.....LOL

[Warren]

Folks,

OK. This puppy is done. And I love it. I know that most of you guys are not the aerobic type. But for those, like me, who would rather bicycle than drive any vehicle, this is the dream machine.

Some specs:

Late model (1991-2001) "Iowa built" Linear LWB recumbent, rebuilt for the umpteenth time. This time as a 26/26 OSS bike. 31.5#

Cell_Man, 350 watt, MAC, front, geared hub motor. 8.25#

Cell_Man, Infineon, 6 FET, 25 amp controller .5#

Li Ping, 36 volt, 30 amp, LiFePo4 pack. 25#

Li Ping 5 amp charger. 2#

Stand alone Cycle Analyst. .5#

Aluminum mid-motor mount, chain, chainring. 3.75#

Battery mount rack, and pannier. 2#

Total weight, with 26x1.25 slicks, and Stan's latex sealant. 73.5#

15-53 motor drive...left side, 50 to 11-32, 8 speed...right side. All components Deore LX, or better.

All at my usual 70-80 rpm cadence:

I see about 350 watts on the flat running in sixth, at 20-21 mph, and up steep dirt roads, in first, at 9-10 mph.

In eighth gear I am running 28-32 mph, and about 500 watts, on the level.

Warren

[pdf]

Folks,

OK. This puppy is done. And I love it. I know that most of you guys are not the aerobic type. But for those, like me, who would rather bicycle than drive any vehicle, this is the dream machine.

Put up pics when you have them. I love my mid-drive upright (Stokemonkey). Ride it nearly everyday. I did fix up a high-turn (2810) hub motor for my son and am amazed at how well it performs on hills at 72 volts though. On the other hand, it is really tempting not to pedal at all on a powerful hub setup. It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish

[Warren]

pdf,

I will put up pix soon.

Yes, mopeds, and scooters are great fun. But we are all inherently conservative of our energy...lazy. Ultimately we end up with coal fired SUVs. A human/electric hybrid is Methadone for energy junkies.

Warren

[Warren]

Folks,

Haven't figured out how to post pix here yet, but you can see it over here.

http://www.elmoto.net/attachment.php?at ... 1317645256

http://www.elmoto.net/attachment.php?at ... 1317645353

http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?1701-Perspective

Warren

[amberwolf]

Unfortunately it will not allow non-registered guests to see them.

Posting pics here is easy, if you are attaching them like they appear to be there:

When posting, there is a section of the page called "Upload attachment", below the box you type your post in. Use the Browse button to find the file on your computer, select it, and click OK. Then click Add the file button on the posting page. The popup will upload it and let you know when it's done (by going away).

[Warren]

Amberwolf,

Thanks. Now I have to figure out how to shrink the file. Too big for this site.

Up to 285 miles now. Did 37 miles in overcast ,53 degree weather today. Voltage was down about a half a volt from the 70-80 degree weather we have been having. Still averaged 22.4 mph.

Warren

[amberwolf]

If you use Windows, just open the file in Paint, then use this key sequence:
Ctrl-A
Ctrl-W
type 25 in each of the first two boxes (for 25% of original size. Use a different number if you want a different final size)
click OK
File-Save As
type in the filename you want (don't save as the same file name or you destroy your original)
and pick the file type (defaults to whatever it started as, usually that's fine)

[Warren]

Thanks Amberwolf. Here goes.

[amberwolf]

Well, the good news is the resized pix did save small enough to upload and view successfully, but the bad news is that there must be something wrong with your original pix if they have that much whitespace in them (there shouldn't be *any*).

I edited the whitespace out and reposted them below, without any other resizing:

side.jpg

(180.47 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

file.jpg

(209.89 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

[Warren]

Amberwolf,

Thanks. I have 325 miles on now. I will have most of next week off. I hope to do an 80 mile ride Monday...calling for sunny and 80 degrees.

Since I have been riding with the broken pedelec sensor, I have decided to take it off. As a motor vehicle operator, I feel like a boor blowing stop signs, which I always did on my bike. I shift into low before stopping, and a little throttle makes getting the pedal into position for my foot a lot easier.

The only problem I have now is some EMF interference messing up my maximum speed reading on the CA. I tried shielding part of the controller-to-motor cable with aluminum foil. That seemed to help. I went about ten miles before it messed up again. It usually goes to 600+ mph!

Warren

[amberwolf]

With my SA CA, I had an intermittently broken wire (thanks to my dogs) in the speedo cable that caused a similar problem. You might want to recheck the speedo wire. Put a continuity meter across it's CA end, and a magnet on the sensor end to force it's circuit closed. Wiggle the wire around along it's length and if the buzzing stops at all you have found the problem.

[Warren]

Amberwolf,

Justin mentioned squealing brakes causing vibration of the reed switch. This makes sense, as it started after I switched brake pads, which now squeal. Will try getting rid of the squeal first.

Did another thirty before dinner tonight...21.8 average, 11.6 Wh/mi. Climbing lots of hills in the teens means flying for miles at 25-28 to get that average. I am loving this bike.

Warren

[Rassy]

Warren, nice and clean looking build. Sounds like it performs up to your expectations.

I find it interesting how many ways there are to tie a mid-drive into a system. Without even going into rc builds, you have yours set up more like a Stoke Monkey driving the left side of the crank, LIghtcycle has his driving the IGH directly with a second sprokett, and mine pulls directly on the main chain. Still they all accomplish the same goal, of having a multi-geared motor.

Anyone that has hills to get up and finds that a regular hub motor either runs out of power or overheats should take a good look at multi-gear systems.

Of course Dogman's solution of just having a bike for each type of terrain is pretty cool to.

[Warren]

477 miles so far....94.7 miles off this charge at 20.15 mph average. That is to 80% DoD on a 1.1 kWh pack.

It has been raining all week. Looks like most of next week too.

[Warren]

Monday, I put clipless pedals on the electric, and went on an 80 mile ride. Three hours, 50 minutes riding, at 20.9 average, 70% of my charge. The weirdest thing was that, for nearly the whole ride, I had people following me for miles. Mostly pickup and SUV drivers!? They were apparently amazed that you could travel at reasonable speed without 2 tons of steel around you.

[Hillhater]

It maybe just a visual distortion, but it seems to me your hands /bars are strangely close to the pedals ???
Can you actually straighten your legs when sat back on the seat, pedalling and holding the bars comfortably. ?

[Warren]

"Can you actually straighten your legs when sat back on the seat, pedalling and holding the bars comfortably. ?"

My bike is laid out just like this.

http://www.rans.com/itr83image/TannerXS.jpg

Several of these finished very well in the RAAM. It is as comfortable as you can get, and still exercise.

[Hillhater]

My bike is laid out just like this.

http://www.rans.com/itr83image/TannerXS.jpg.

sorry, but the layout , relative position of the seat, angle of seat, bars and pedals,...appear very different on that bike compared to yours.
I will take your word that it is a comfortable ride, but it just seems odd to have your knees up between the bars !

Note to self: ... must arrange a test ride on a recumbent !

[Warren]

"sorry, but the layout , relative position of the seat, angle of seat, bars and pedals,...appear very different on that bike compared to yours."

Yeah, right! You just wanted to see my legs.

[Warren]

"sorry, but the layout , relative position of the seat, angle of seat, bars and pedals,...appear very different on that bike compared to yours."

Seriously though, I am using the same bars, and riser. But you see the six inch telescoping portion of the riser just ahead of the bars on the yellow bike? That is there so they can lay the seat further back, and still reach the bars. This creates a lot of tiller effect. Also his shoulders are almost over the rear axle, putting more weight on the rear wheel. If I were racing, this would be more aero.

But for riding around in traffic, I'd rather be a little more upright. Also, if I end up running a front Zzipper this winter, that will make up for the aero difference, and reduce wind noise, and windchill.

And, yes, you should try a recumbent. For fast, long distance riding, nothing beats the recumbent position. That goes for bicycles, e-bikes, and motorcycles too.

Warren

[Warren]

753 miles so far. Did two 62.5 mile rides, the last two days, to town for lunch, lots of climbing and descending, lots of curves.

22.5 average, 11.9 Wh/mi the first day....22.7 average, 12.0 Wh/mile the next. At least I am consistent.

I was followed out of town by two different cops the second day. Shifted down into 6th to keep it at 20-21 mph. Move along...nothing of interest here.

Calling for highs in the 50's and low 60's...time to get that Zzipper.

For reference: I did my 16.2 mile loop the other day, on my carbon roadbike...16.4 mph average...best time in a year. Ten years ago I would average 20 mph around there.