This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Hillhater » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:52 am

1MW Plant Testing Underway
http://ecatnews.com/?p=1075
October 23, 2011 | Author: admin

According to Andrea Rossi, on his blog, the 1MW plant is now under test. I assume that he means testing by his own engineers but that is not certain. Either way, it is good news. If the 28th is to be taken as the customer delivery date which will be attended by senior scientists and journalists as well as company reps, it is inconceivable that some sort of pre-test would not have been made.

We also have the promise of semi-live reports (hourly) on Dr Rossi’s blog and video plus a report at midnight on the day.
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Dee Jay » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:40 am

Hillhater wrote:1MW Plant Testing Underway
http://ecatnews.com/?p=1075
October 23, 2011 | Author: admin

According to Andrea Rossi, on his blog, the 1MW plant is now under test. I assume that he means testing by his own engineers but that is not certain. Either way, it is good news. If the 28th is to be taken as the customer delivery date which will be attended by senior scientists and journalists as well as company reps, it is inconceivable that some sort of pre-test would not have been made.

We also have the promise of semi-live reports (hourly) on Dr Rossi’s blog and video plus a report at midnight on the day.


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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby bigmoose » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:08 pm

We should also keep an eye on Dr. Miley. He is replicating some of the Patterson Cell experiments and is getting anomalous or over unity heat output. I would put Dr. Miley several steps above in scientific method compared to Rossi. See slide 48 in particular:
http://ecatsite.wordpress.com/2011/10/22/dr-george-miley-replicates-patterson-names-rossi/#comment-95

Rossi is in either a Greek Tragedy or a Greek Comedy with the Greek Company that he originally had a contract with, Defkalion Green Technology or DGT. http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/10/stremmenos-stance-on-defkalion-gts-10.html

A month or so ago, Rossi broke contact with DGT saying they did not deliver on their contract, now DGT is praising Rossi, saying they have co-developed a over unity reactor not using Rossi's secret sauce but their own. DGT is offering licencing for 40 million euros. If you put 500K euros into escrow they will let you and your scientists play with their device using your instruments as long as you want. If you are not satisfied, you get your 500K euro's back, if satisfied, it is applied to the licencing costs... DGT says Rossi tried to hire away their chief designer...

The plot thickens.... as Rossi is "firing up" his 1Mw steam generator this weekend using a large number of "Fat Cat" eCats... that again are allegedly a copy of DGT's model 3 or 4 reactor so says the blogs... DGT says their current reactor is a model 7 and are not happy that their old design was "leaked."

Fun stuff... or ... the world is about to change... a comedy or .... a tragedy? Who knows!
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Joseph C. » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:26 pm

bigmoose wrote:We should also keep an eye on Dr. Miley. He is replicating some of the Patterson Cell experiments and is getting anomalous or over unity heat output. I would put Dr. Miley several steps above in scientific method compared to Rossi. See slide 48 in particular:
http://ecatsite.wordpress.com/2011/10/22/dr-george-miley-replicates-patterson-names-rossi/#comment-95

Rossi is in either a Greek Tragedy or a Greek Comedy with the Greek Company that he originally had a contract with, Defkalion Green Technology or DGT. http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/10/stremmenos-stance-on-defkalion-gts-10.html

A month or so ago, Rossi broke contact with DGT saying they did not deliver on their contract, now DGT is praising Rossi, saying they have co-developed a over unity reactor not using Rossi's secret sauce but their own. DGT is offering licencing for 40 million euros. If you put 500K euros into escrow they will let you and your scientists play with their device using your instruments as long as you want. If you are not satisfied, you get your 500K euro's back, if satisfied, it is applied to the licencing costs... DGT says Rossi tried to hire away their chief designer...

The plot thickens.... as Rossi is "firing up" his 1Mw steam generator this weekend using a large number of "Fat Cat" eCats... that again are allegedly a copy of DGT's model 3 or 4 reactor so says the blogs... DGT says their current reactor is a model 7 and are not happy that their old design was "leaked."

Fun stuff... or ... the world is about to change... a comedy or .... a tragedy? Who knows!


Apparently, Rossi has been testing the thing since yesterday. At this stage I don't know what to make of it all. I would imagine a couple of kilowatts is a lot easier to test than a one megawatt unit. In his defence it would probably be a lot easier to sell commercially than to members of the public so perhaps that is his reason.

Glad to hear that others are getting promising results Rossi makes me very uneasy.
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby El_Steak » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:22 pm

The 1 mega watt plant was/is tested today.

Latest (unverified) news is that the test was successful.

More info here:

http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/10/e-day ... -customer/

Apparently Associated Press has the exclusive on the coverage so we can expect more info from them soon.
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Joseph C. » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:48 pm

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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby El_Steak » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:40 pm

Hoping for the best, but still skeptical.

No info or credentials validation of the "secret client" that conducted the testing is cause from concern.

As Carl Sagan said: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Lets hope we'll get extraordinary evidence.
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby bigmoose » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:43 pm

First video of today... Rossi claims 460 KW from his container sized agglomeration of eCats... things are a changing... if "the customer" confirms payment!



and to balance it from http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg53743.html

I have heard that observers of today's tests are only being allowed to look
at the equipment for a few minutes at a time, and they are not being
introduced to the engineers who are taking the data. They are not being
given a chance to establish the bona fides of these engineers, or to confirm
that they are fully independent from Rossi.

If this is true then it goes without saying these results will have zero
credibility.

If this is true then Rossi has once again taken a golden opportunity to
convince the world his claims are true, and used it to make himself look
like a crook.

I hope this is not true.

Whatever happens, I am sure we will get the full story. The reporters there
can be relied upon to tell us the truth. If they are not allowed to
interview the engineers and they cannot independently confirm the data, they
will say so. I am sure Rossi knows they will tell the truth, so it seems
unlikely he would impose such outrageous conditions. Unfortunately, he has
often done outrageous things, such as telling people they are not allowed to
measure the temperature with their own instruments.

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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby liveforphysics » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:11 pm

It seems sooo crooked to me. And from a guy with a history of huge scale scams.

I want to believe, but everything points to scam.
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Joseph C. » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:31 pm

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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Dee Jay » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:36 pm

OH WOW THIS IS SO EXCITING!

*tail wagging* :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

:twisted: *dee jay kicks the soundtrack*

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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby El_Steak » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:43 pm

Here's the report from PES Network who had someone on attendance:

http://pesn.com/2011/10/28/9501940_1_MW ... uccessful/

I really hope this could be true, but my BS detector is beeping.

Couple of red flags from the article:

Early in the day with a glitch showing up, Rossi said that they had to make a decision about whether to go for 1 MW output, not in self-sustain mode, or with self-sustain mode at a lower power level.


Apparently the customer opted for self-sustain mode at lower power level.

Attendance at this test was limited for several reasons. First, the customer does not wish to be known at this time, nor to have its test engineers/scientists identified. I did not inadvertently discover the customer's identify, nor did I try to find out. I gave that group their space and did not probe. Second, the device is a nuclear device, and the regulations for a public demonstration are extremely stringent; so by making the event private, and only bringing one or two at a time to see it was a way to get around the safety requirements.


Plausible, but also very convenient if you're running a scam.

Probably the biggest opening for skeptics will be the continually running genset that is probably rated for 500 kW (my guess), and appears to have been connected by cables to the E-Cat. "Where's the mystery?" So knock yourselves out, skeptics. It's the customer who has to be happy, and apparently this one was satisfied that those cables were not contributing to the 470 kW output during self-sustaining mode.


So the 500kW generator was still hooked to the "reactor" that was producing... 470kW. This doesn't smell very good.
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Joseph C. » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:35 pm

The engineer is known, Domenico Fioravanti - not the swimmer. For whatever that is worth.

And apparently, Manutencoop Facility Management is the company that Rossi inconveniently/conveniently scribbled out on his data sheet.
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Joseph C. » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:41 pm

If it is this company - one thing is certain they are big. According to ecatnews they have over 16,000 employers and are a billion euro company.
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Teh Stork » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:21 pm

The lack of documentation is pretty obvious :roll:
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby bigmoose » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:28 pm

Sort of funny, you check the meta data on the spread sheet that Rossi himself posted and guess what is in the "File Properties Field" for Company? ... Manutencoop Facility Management

The best made plans of men!

On another note, some are still saying it is a US mega company that contracted the testing to Manutencoop Facility Management. I have two observations with respect to that theory.

1) The test plan is not of the caliber I would expect for a fortune 25 company from the US. Much too casual and imprecise.

2) Upon the completion of the run, Domenico Fioravanti the test engineer, signed to accept the eCat and approved the test. The protocol that I have seen, Domenico Fioravanti would have recommended to accept, and we would have waited a few hours while corporate "chewed" on the decision.

... Could be cultural however. I just do not know.
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Jozzer » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:54 pm

bigmoose wrote:... Could be cultural however. I just do not know.


No, your right, in Italy you have to sign everything 100 times with 100 witnesses and work every kink out of every deal..
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Gordo » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:39 pm

I just built an eCat. I used a coil of 103.78m of 125mm steel tubing, suspended in a hot water tank. Before the demo, I connected 440V at 100A to either end of the tube. Once the tube was red hot, I disconnected the power, invited in the engineers and as I put cold water in the bottom end of the coil, superheated steam came out the other end. Voila, un eChatte! (Pussy in English)
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Hillhater » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:54 pm

Gordo wrote:I just built an eCat. I used a coil of 103.78m of 125mm steel tubing, suspended in a hot water tank. Before the demo, I connected 440V at 100A to either end of the tube. Once the tube was red hot, I disconnected the power, invited in the engineers and as I put cold water in the bottom end of the coil, superheated steam came out the other end. Voila, un eChatte! (Pussy in English)


how long did it produce steam for ? :wink:
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Gordo » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:11 am

Until the engineers and cameras left. :lol:
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Drunkskunk » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:44 am

I call BS. His demonstrations look more like a steam punk themed Magician's tricks, with out the scantily clad assistants. I'd be more impressed if he wore a tophat and waved a wand.

Lets ignore the fact that he's been to prison for fraud in the past, or that this is his M.O., The science just isn't there. But the skill of the trick is interesting.
Essentualy, Like any good Magician, he gives you a story, filled with terms you don't fully understand, but with a remarkable and clever outcome (In a far away land ancient monks knew the secret of...) . he then shows you a device, that he demonstrates some of basic parts of. ( Just an ordinary box, nothing remarkable about it at all, but Observe!...) He's very good at showing slightly more than your attention span wants to see, and giving you an information overload so that you don't notice what he didn't show you. (You know, he never showed the bottom of the box, and it never came of that funny table... ) He then preforms his Trick, and you see exactly what he described you would see. Humble beginings, with dramatic and supprising results that exceed your expectations. And then like any good street preformer, he doesn't ask for money, but he lets you know that he appriciates it as the hat is passed around. ( The investors have been most gracous, thank you, thank you.. )

Proving him a fraud would be difficult based on the information available, but recreating his demonstration wouldn't be, if examined like a magic trick.

An interesting article from someone in his field who met with Rossi: http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/10/30/noble-aspirations-are-not-enough/
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Gordo » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:35 am

"An interesting article from someone in his field who met with Rossi: http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/10/ ... ot-enough/"

This is also precisely my take on the stunt. A pre-heated tea kettle.! :roll:
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Hillhater » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:51 pm

Gordo wrote:...This is also precisely my take on the stunt. A pre-heated tea kettle.! :roll:


you are going to need a BIG kettle ...
...Measured by the customer: 66 kWh in during startup,
2635 kWh out *during self sustaining operation* 12:30 to 18:00.
COP calculated by the test engineer of > 2635 :0
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Joseph C. » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:51 pm

Mr. Krivit isn't coming out of this too well.

If it is a fraud - we will eventually find out. If it isn't, he just lost his credibility by personalising the issue.

Let Rossi say and do what he likes, time will reveal all anyway.
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Re: This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

Postby Hillhater » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:57 pm

Rebuttal to Krivit's Accusation that Andrea Rossi is a Fraudster
http://pesn.com/2011/10/30/9501941_Rebu ... Fraudster/

El_Steak wrote:So the 500kW generator was still hooked to the "reactor" that was producing... 470kW. This doesn't smell very good.

^^^ Ditto !
someone has to ask ..
why was a "500kW" generator required when only 66kw/hr was used to "start" the process ?
Why was it running throughout the "self sustaining" part of the test ( 6hrs ?)
Why was the full 1MW output not tested ?

I am sure there are good explanations for these questions, but they do need to be clarified.

Further, i am very surprised that the "Customer" accepted ( apparently) the unit even though it failed to meet 50% of its claimed output.
At the very least i would have expected a re-test prior to final buy off.
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