This man may change the world Andrea Rossi & eCat

[liveforphysics]

why was a "500kW" generator required when only 66kw/hr was used to "start" the process ?

Because it has no output and is a scam.

Why was it running throughout the "self sustaining" part of the test ( 6hrs ?)

Because it has no output and is a scam.

Why was the full 1MW output not tested ?

Because it has no output and is a scam.

[Gordo]

LUKE IS Clairvoyant!

[AussieJester]

I have a sneaking suspicion, Luke thinks this Rossi character is a scammer

KiM

[liveforphysics]

I have a sneaking suspicion, Luke thinks this Rossi character is a scammer

KiM

I had wanted to believe very badly. But EVERYTHING points straight to scam. Every time somebody gives him a chance to prove anything is happening, it doesn't work, or he does a "test" in some absurd manor that doesn't prove anything.

If he had something, anything at all that made any useful energy at all, he would let it be shown (not hard to do). Instead, he intentionally avoids that from ever happening, and comes up with more and more absurd things to try to get money from suckers.

[Dee Jay]

I have a sneaking suspicion, Luke thinks this Rossi character is a scammer

KiM

gee... you think?

[Hillhater]

I too REALLY want this to be genuine ..but.
.. the whole thing is too F'.ing amateurish to be true !
If it were real, it would be the equivalent of turning turds into gold and anyone with any access to this would be crapping bricks and hiring the biggest security team ever seen to protect it and Rossi.
The Italian government ( who are in deep financial do do ) would have jumped onto this and locked out any possibility of it ever leaving the country ...( there are a lot of very smart engineers in Italy) .. because it would solve all Italy's, Europes, and the Worlds energy and financial issues .... overnight !
.. But no, ..its just a minor online story that keeps bumbling along !!

[oldpiper]

One thing you all ought to do is look at the websites which are promoting this.

<WARNING: run-on sentence ahead> PESWiki pushes "Brown's gas" and antigravity stuff, among others, they quote the "New Energy Congress" a lot, which points back to (guess who) PESWiki, there are no established scientists, as far as I can tell, no scientists at all anywhere near any of these stories, one of the funny things is that they have one "cold fusion expert" calling the other "cold fusion expert" (Rossi) a fraud, and they are siding with Rossi, calling the other guy unfair and complaining that he didn't have anything nice to say about Rossi, concluding that he was "prejudiced," there are implications of the "big government coverup," one or two articles about someone being "threatened" and destroying his data to keep his family safe, and many of the articles which they have published or refer to from other sites are several years old - if ANY of these discoveries were true, the world would be a much different place today. E.T. (Paul? Don't rent that movie, it's completely lame, not even worth the buck to get it from Redbox) told me so on my last trip to Roswell, so it's gotta be the truth.

Cameron

[bigmoose]

This video doesn't look good to me: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3303681.ece#comments

Shows the narrator putting his bare hand on the main steam line valve exiting the reactor when in self sustain mode. The published data shows 105 deg C outlet temperature when in self sustain mode. The narrator also grabs the un-insulated blue pipe right as it leaves the container and holds it. I ask, how do you grab hold of a 105 deg C object and not pull away? He also holds his hand on the insulation and says; "Not very hot." or "Not too hot."

[Joseph C.]

This video doesn't look good to me: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3303681.ece#comments

Shows the narrator putting his bare hand on the main steam line valve exiting the reactor when in self sustain mode. The published data shows 105 deg C outlet temperature when in self sustain mode. The narrator also grabs the un-insulated blue pipe right as it leaves the container and holds it. I ask, how do you grab hold of a 105 deg C object and not pull away? He also holds his hand on the insulation and says; "Not very hot." or "Not too hot."

There is a comment that says the video was shot after the test when everything was cooling down. So that negates that, or does it? The same commenter continues:

Closed water condensate drainage valve
Somebody asked Mr. Rossi about the water-condensate drainage valve, which is obviously shown closed in the latest posted movie.
Here the explanation from Mr. Rossi:
------------
Andrea Rossi
October 31st, 2011 at 6:07 PM
Dear Paul Gordon:
The valve has been always open, under the strict control of the Consultant of the Customer. The video you talk of has been made during the cooling down of the E-Cat, after it has been turned off.
Warm Regards,
A.R
-----------

But if you watch the movie, you hear at the end very clear the voice of Mats Lewan saying: It is now almost 3 o clock.
That means, that time the movie was recorded, the e-cat should have been in the middle of the so called 'self sustaining' mode.

So, who is wrong?
I hope Mr. Mats Lewan can clarify.

Actually, I believe the time given by Mats Lewan, because - as you can see - it was still bright daylight.

[AussieJester]

@BiGMooSE ...Answer = you can't ~65c is about it for me
grabbing the can on my turnigy outrunner and holding it there, after that
Its to hot to hold, 100c plus you would most certainly
Flinch....

KiM

[liveforphysics]

It's just a larger scale phony-bologna model of his small phony-bologna model.

Same game, larger stakes, and trying to sucker some idiots into believing it.

[bigmoose]

But if you watch the movie, you hear at the end very clear the voice of Mats Lewan saying: It is now almost 3 o clock.
That means, that time the movie was recorded, the e-cat should have been in the middle of the so called 'self sustaining' mode.

So, who is wrong?
I hope Mr. Mats Lewan can clarify.

Actually, I believe the time given by Mats Lewan, because - as you can see - it was still bright daylight.

Ok, I looked at the data printout. 15:00-16:00 temp between 104 and 107 deg C, well above AJ's hand limit of 65 deg C. The data goes out to 18:31:36 and the temp is still 103.7 deg C. So should we see shadows if it is after 6:31 pm in Bologna, Italy!

[Hillhater]

. The narrator also grabs the un-insulated blue pipe right as it leaves the container and holds it. I ask, how do you grab hold of a 105 deg C object and not pull away? He also holds his hand on the insulation and says; "Not very hot." or "Not too hot."

Lets be honest here guys... he didnt "grab" the un-insulated pipe,..he barely touched it with his finger tips !
..even i can do that on 100 C ...and i am certainly no "Grasshopper"
.. And what would you expect on a insulated pipe lagging ??

There are much bigger questions than these to be answered.

[Joseph C.]

. The narrator also grabs the un-insulated blue pipe right as it leaves the container and holds it. I ask, how do you grab hold of a 105 deg C object and not pull away? He also holds his hand on the insulation and says; "Not very hot." or "Not too hot."

Lets be honest here guys... he didnt "grab" the un-insulated pipe,..he barely touched it with his finger tips !
..even i can do that on 100 C ...and i am certainly no "Grasshopper"
.. And what would you expect on a insulated pipe lagging ??

There are much bigger questions than these to be answered.

You are correct however I really doubt you or anyone else will get the answers you are looking for out of Rossi.

As long as he is in charge only demonstrations will result. He seems to have convinced this company's engineer, Nyteknik, Bolgna University's scientists and others so irrespective of what is going on the story definitely has merited attention.

[montyp]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That goes both ways. At this point with so many people involved, it would be an extraordinary scam. All we can do is wait for more evidence... and speculate the effects of such a device...

If it does work... oddly enough, the short term big winners might be companies that the environmentalist hate the most. Mining and oil extraction require massive amounts of energy, if those energy cost were to drop, these companies would most likely be able to hold on to their margins. While the purchase cost of these products drops consumption would increase. Until battery cost decrease, people will still be driving (and factories producing) ICE vehicles. It is not totally inconceivable that cold fusion would "kill" the electric car... for a while.

I've see this written somewhere else, but shorting commodities and going long on refineries might be a good plan.

[Gordo]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That goes both ways. At this point with so many people involved, it would be an extraordinary scam. All we can do is wait for more evidence... and speculate the effects of such a device...

If it does work... oddly enough, the short term big winners might be companies that the environmentalist hate the most. Mining and oil extraction require massive amounts of energy, if those energy cost were to drop, these companies would most likely be able to hold on to their margins. While the purchase cost of these products drops consumption would increase. Until battery cost decrease, people will still be driving (and factories producing) ICE vehicles. It is not totally inconceivable that cold fusion would "kill" the electric car... for a while.

I've see this written somewhere else, but shorting commodities and going long on refineries might be a good plan.

This religion of blindness and stupidity is how the scam has gotten to this far.

[montyp]

This religion of blindness and stupidity is how the scam has gotten to this far.

You are arguing for logic with emotion. Please try again.

[liveforphysics]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That goes both ways. At this point with so many people involved, it would be an extraordinary scam. All we can do is wait for more evidence... and speculate the effects of such a device...

Historically, it only becomes easier to fool people when more get involved.
When the team came from NASA with proper instrumentation to evaluate the device, what a shock! I didn't work at all for those days!
The moment they leave, it works again for newspaper reporters and dolt's who don't have a clue what they are looking at.

If I had to make a huge scam to fool folks, and I could pick any audience to fool in the world, I would pick 2 groups, college professors and engineers. That would be the easiest prey.

I would say that it's like a magic show, but even a 2-bit magic show does a much better job than this bumbling moron. lol

[montyp]

Yep - When dealing with situations like this we must be objective. That said, even when I know it is a 2-bit magic show. I still like to watch

I'd like to think that I have been following this particular "magic show" pretty close. I haven't found anything indicating that NASA has directly evaluated the ecat. Do you have a link to website stating this. (FYI - I don't say that to be snarky)

[bigmoose]

This is one of the blogs that mentioned NASA that we are keying off of:http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/09/28/nasa-advances-evaluation-of-piantelli%E2%80%99s-lenr-research/

On Sept. 5 and 6, a team comprising representatives from an investment group and NASA visited Andrea Rossi’s showroom in Bologna. The team went there with an explicit agreement about test parameters and opportunities to observe and evaluate Rossi’s claims. They did not observe any positive results.

Then Krivit goes to NASA directly and they allegedly won't confirm it:
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/10/06/nasa-wont-confirm-relationship-with-rossi-2/

The Sept. 5 test was inconclusive because Rossi’s device sprang a plumbing leak. The Sept. 6 test was inconclusive because there was no outflow of steam or water.

However, when reporter Mats Lewan from Ny Teknik showed up the next day, Rossi’s device produced an outflow of steam and water. But by then, the NASA observers had gone.
...snip
On Sept. 15, New Energy Times asked Dennis Bushnell, chief scientist at NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, whether he attended the Sept. 5 and 6 Rossi tests.

“We can’t discuss anything about that,” Bushnell said.

[bigmoose]

Ok now one of Rossi's old partners Defkalion is offering the "deal of the century!" Lets take up a collection here, get 500K Euro's go and measure this thing ourselves, then buy the license to manufacture if it is real. We can all retire, and save the world! Now that is a righteous goal, don't you think?

http://ecatnews.com/?p=1071

Meanwhile competition seems to build up. The Greek company Defkalion Green Technologies which had a license agreement with Rossi until August when Rossi communicated a breach of contract, recently claimed that it not only has developed a product for the energy market but also its own core technology based on “Rossi’s invention or similar inventions….[snip]

This is quite an astonishing claim. Mats continues:

According to Ny Teknik’s sources, Defkalion continues to meet with companies interested in acquiring licenses for manufacturing and distribution of Defkalion’s products, at a license fee amounting to 40.5 million Euros per factory.
The told Ny Teknik that Defkalion offers interested clients to see its technology and let them verify the validity of it with independent scientists of their choice, after having deposited 500,000 Euros in an escrow account.
UPDATE (Oct 21, 16:45): Defkalion confirms this information with the following statement: “Price for exclusive license is 40.5 million Euros which includes blue prints, transfer of knowledge, and training to establish an operating factory producing up to 300.000 Hyperion [Defkalion's product name] units annually. Potential licensees contact Defkalion with an interest to assume this exclusive license. They are invited to perform independent tests on our products with their own instruments. The 500,000 Euros in an Escrow Account is payable only on the condition that they are satisfied by the results of their measurements and they wish to proceed in the signing of a full contract.” (End of update)

To nail the claim, Defkalion say this on their forum:

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 158
We confirm only the information related with our company as posted by Mats Lewan
in
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_m … 295411.ece
Defkalion GT

... you know if all these guys are formulating the fraud of the century someone is going to cross the "wrong person/business" and end up disappearing and/or end up sleeping with the fishes over this...

... this is more fun than living through the Cuban missile crisis with respect to the unknown and anticipation...

[montyp]

Thanks for the link! And thanks for posting this on endless-sphere. Threads like this is probably why I spend so much time lurking on this site

I give Krivit about as much weight as Rossi at this point. I also have pretty much the same view of New Energy Times as I do of The Journal Of Nuclear Physics.

From the drama perspective Krivit makes this whole story a masterpiece. He is a true nemesis. This whole thing is like the Jersey Shore for nerds. Being from Jersey (kinda) and a nerd (completely), I am totally enthralled.

[oldpiper]

Quite interesting article on the NPR series "On Point" yesterday, where Margaret Wertheim, a (real) scientist talks about "Physics on the Fringe" and the groups of people who think that we've got it all wrong. At the end of the segment, a caller claims that "big physics" has a history of suppressing/burying the truth (in favor of the physicists' "pet theories") and uses as an example Rossi's dog-and-phony show the other day. Dr. Wertheim is much nicer than I would have been when asked about this in particular. Available on NPR's webpage for your listening enjoyment. The second half-hour is about the really strange things which the "hippie physicists" of the 70's came up with, which have held up to rigorous scientific scrutiny, particularly quantum entanglement (which is about as strange as you can get).

Cameron

[Joseph C.]

Quite interesting article on the NPR series "On Point" yesterday, where Margaret Wertheim, a (real) scientist talks about "Physics on the Fringe" and the groups of people who think that we've got it all wrong. At the end of the segment, a caller claims that "big physics" has a history of suppressing/burying the truth (in favor of the physicists' "pet theories") and uses as an example Rossi's dog-and-phony show the other day. Dr. Wertheim is much nicer than I would have been when asked about this in particular. Available on NPR's webpage for your listening enjoyment. The second half-hour is about the really strange things which the "hippie physicists" of the 70's came up with, which have held up to rigorous scientific scrutiny, particularly quantum entanglement (which is about as strange as you can get).

Cameron

Here's the link. http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/11/01/phys ... the-fringe

[chroot]

Another news appear for Andrea and eCat. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57318762/cold-fusion-debate-heats-up-after-latest-demo/