leaderhobby LiPo packs? Has anyone experience with?

[parabellum]

As I posted in an earlier reply, I had a problem using their shopping cart

Hi Harold, thanks for the info.
Have you tried different browsers? I have problems with specific sites on specific browsers. Have tried few, and have Mozilla and Chrome now, can deal with every site in at least 1 of those 2.

[Harold in CR]

I'm pretty sure the sites pick up my IP address. They put me straight to China, instead of letting me place the order in the USA, and ship to my Son, in Fl.

[neptronix]

harold: are you referring to leadershobby or the haiyin store ..?

I had no problem with leadershobby.com .. they do have kind of a funky cart system tho. Like hobbyking's setup, but not customized.

Didn't get a tracking # within 2 days, so i sent an email asking if it was backordered etc.
Got an email reply from them saying that it did ship out, with a tracking #.. but said # does not work just yet.

I asked if they would restock this battery because if my tests are good, i will order a handful of these and start recommending them as well. I got this response:

"Yes , the battery is out of stock now.
But I think we'll have it when you make your next order."

I suppose that's a good sign.
Will keep yall updated..

[competitions]

Hi, if you're looking to buy from leaderhobby, let's test their referral system to see if it works.

When you join them, you can put in a referral email address, so if you're willing, put in:
andrew@my-syte.com

It's a miserable 1% as far as I can see, but at least we can then report back to state whether it works or not!

If enough referrals come in to cover a purchase, we could put up an item purchase as a prize.

[parabellum]

Attention!
They do not have automatic email notification if wishlist item is restocked! You need just check everyday if it is there. Or is it only my problem?

[Harold in CR]

I went to Leader Hobby after getting cart errors on the Haiyin Store site. Then, I had problems on the Leader Hobby Site, so, I went back to the Haiyin Site. Had emails From Eric from Haiyin Site, trying to help, but, still no go, So, that's when I got the email from Penelope at Leader Hobby Site, offering a little discount for my troubles. Seems to me, if they have good batteries, their communication from Penelope is trying to help customers.

The raising of the prices, I believe, is because the sale prices had expired. They were only for a couple of days, before we all went there.

By then, I bought from Hobby King.

[theRealFury]

Another deal on there that looks really good.

https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001223818 which is a Transmetric 4S 10000mah battery 10C cont 20C burst for only $41. That means you could get a 12S 10AH (arguably the most common lipo setup) battery for $120 with a 100amp constant, 200amp burst discharge rating. If the specification is true then that is on par with my 12S zippy pack that cost me $260.

Just waiting to see what the guinney pigs come back with and then i might pull the trigger on a few packs myself (once the website registration page is working again).

[neptronix]

Update;

Apparently they send their batteries through a service called 'swiss post Singapore'
The tracking number now works & the battery is on it's way out of Asia.
Apparently this is coming via air. ( that's why the shipping is $$ )

[liveforphysics]

IMHO- It seems like another of the many companies that buy the "does-not-meet-standards-for-b-stock" cells made by HobbyKing, or the guys that buy the huge lots of years old LiPo cell for various applications that didn't sell, and re-badge it. You see them on ebay all the time.

No factories I've visited are even actively even making cells with such low performance, and most have warehouses full of old 1st generation stuff collecting dust.

The 3v cliff and weight are 100% indicators of being 1st gen LiPo. Be extremely careful with over-charge, or poking a cell. Lots of 1st gen formulas couldn't do 100cycles under good conditions, so be sure to spend some time testing before you make a large purchase.

[flathill]

IMHO- It seems like another of the many companies that buy the "does-not-meet-standards-for-b-stock" cells made by HobbyKing

Hobbyking makes their own cell? I could see them assembling packs but i didnt know they had a cell factory...

[liveforphysics]

IMHO- It seems like another of the many companies that buy the "does-not-meet-standards-for-b-stock" cells made by HobbyKing

Hobbyking makes their own cell? I could see them assembling packs but i didnt know they had a cell factory...

Yep. I've toured it. Had meetings with the engineering team, had tea with the chemist that created the Nano-Tech chemistry. Old news. I will be in China again next week and might stop by for a visit again if I have time. Nice factory, and freaking HUGE, most brands of RC cell get made there, even the ones that bash hobbyking the most. lol

[flathill]

So wanba and haIyin/herewin are hobbyking? Have you heard of Ienergy? Batteryspace sells the high energy version of this LiNiCoMn this "high power" cell: http://www.ienergy.com.cn/products.asp? ... ail&ID=129

[neptronix]

So wanba and haIyin/herewin are hobbyking? Have you heard of Ienergy? Batteryspace sells the high energy version of this LiNiCoMn this "high power" cell: http://www.ienergy.com.cn/products.asp? ... ail&ID=129

i called and emailed batteryspace many many times about that particular NCM cell they have listed, they can't give me a price on it or any details!! That cell you linked on ienergy doesn't seem to match what batteryspace is selling. I believe the batteryspace offering might be EIG stuff.

Luke: i do plan on testing the living daylights out of the li-Mn stuff i am recieving. It's interesting stuff because i've never seen such high energy density larger format >1C stuff for sale *anywhere*..

If it turns out to be decent, i will order the motherload and use it for the pike's peak run. I need 30-40ah of 72v so the cost savings would be nice.

I just need to find out a way to rapidly cycle it. Can the iCharger line do the 'cycle' function with regenerative discharge?

[flathill]

The high energy version is in stock
http://www.batteryspace.com/LiNiCoMn-18 ... -6.0A.aspx

Now see here
http://www.ienergy.com.cn/products.asp? ... ail&ID=128

I want the high power version batteryspace doesnt have yet
I know they are both ienergy through some detective work:
Go here and click on ienergy
http://www.monstermarketplace.com/batteries

[parabellum]

I just need to find out a way to rapidly cycle it. Can the iCharger line do the 'cycle' function with regenerative discharge?

Yes. At least 3010b does.

[neptronix]

flathill: i see what you're talking about. But those cells are not impressive given their weight.

50g x 5 = 250g; that's 10ah of 1S, right?
250g x 10 = 2500g; that's a 10S 10AH pack, so 36 volts essentially.

2500g = 5.5lbs

$360

Let's compare a 20C zippy lipo pack.
Each 5S 5AH pack is 640g, and we need 4 of those.
640g x 4 = 2560g

2560g = 5.6lbs.

$160

So those 18650's have roughly the same wHr/KG as hobbyking lipo, at double the cost, with 3C rather than 20C.
Sorry to shoot you down!!

What i am looking for here is a lower weight AND 2-5C.. i know it exists. It's just damn hard to find.
The transmetic Li-Mn i've been drooling over would make for a 1920g 10S 10AH pack, that's 1920g or 4.2lbs of cell weight.

parabellum: awesome. My iCharger 1010b+ just got a full-time job. I'm sure it has the same feature.

[Hillhater]

Neptronix, are you using these cells for flying, or why are you so concerned over the 1.lb weight advantage over HK lipo or the NMC cells. ?
Cost or size constraints i could accept as problems, but 1lb weight should not be a deal breaker ?
Whilst the 10A Transmetics look attractive (cost at least) on paper, i still think LFP said it right,....10C chemistry Lipo has to be suspect .!
..and that 1A charge rate would rule it out for me !
Ref those NMC cells, ...though more expensive, they are likely to have 3-5 times the cycle life of LiPo or LMO, so the long term cost would be lower.... ( if that is important ?)

[neptronix]

Hillhater: i want the absolute maximum range within the absolute minimum weight and size to fit inside my triangle pack.

Currently i can fit 20AH/10S of lipo in my triangle bag, no sweat.
But it is quite heavy to carry up a few flight of stairs into my apartment. So that sucks. But i do enjoy the 40 mile range.

I have calculated this:

10ah 36v 20C zippy lipo = 5.6 lbs.
10ah 36v 3-5C li-Mn = 4.2 lbs.

At 20AH, that's 11.2lbs VS. 8.4lbs.

So i save almost 3lbs, and i have extra room to maybe, possibly fit another 10AH at almost the same weight with the li-mn.
Or i could have 15S/57v/20AH for 12.6lbs.... versus 10S/36v/20AH of lipo for 11.2lbs.

1.4lbs extra for 57 volt... yeah, i'll carry that extra bit of weight up the stairs for that


Also if you read my posts, i'm not looking at the 10C lipo. I'm looking at the 3-5C li-Mn packs due to it's lower weight!
I would never mess with that 10C lipo. As LFP said, it is most likely reject, 1st gen, or just low quality stuff. It might be OK, but it's a crapshoot.. and i already have a crap-ton of hobbyking lipo here.

As for those NMC cells, they are some of the least impressive i have seen so far. NMC can be so much lighter.. as in 200wHr/KG and above. Those are more like 150wHr/KG. So they're like RC Lipo in weight... yeah, they will last longer... but they're expensive and there is better stuff out there!

[Hillhater]

...i'm not looking at the 10C lipo. I'm looking at the 3-5C li-Mn packs due to it's lower weight!
I would never mess with that 10C lipo. As LFP said, it is most likely reject, 1st gen, or just low quality stuff. It might be OK, but it's a crapshoot..

you are assuming the 3-5C LMO is better/different to the 10c ?...( which is possibly also LMO since it can be custom made to suit various combinations of capacity, output, weight etc )
.. but hey !, if it works for you, it will be good info for the 'Sphere.
....but you will have to "jailbreak" that 1A charge rate to make it feasible for most of us !

[flathill]

flathill: i see what you're talking about. But those cells are not impressive given their weight.

50g x 5 = 250g; that's 10ah of 1S, right?
250g x 10 = 2500g; that's a 10S 10AH pack, so 36 volts essentially.

2500g = 5.5lbs

$360

Let's compare a 20C zippy lipo pack.
Each 5S 5AH pack is 640g, and we need 4 of those.
640g x 4 = 2560g

2560g = 5.6lbs.

$160

Now what if we got them factory direct for lets say $2-3 a cell? $6.95 is the price for one cell from a middle man. The high power version is 15C. I agree were still not quite there yet, but for long-term thinkers who don't like to throw stuff away, would gladly pay double the price for a battery that is still at 91% after 1036 FULL discharges. In 2-3 years I would want a new battery for my EV given the pace of change, but I could keep the old pack and use it to power my lawnmower, boombox, kids toy, off-grid vacation home, etc...I wouldn't want to keep lipo around as it is too unstable. You have to consider calendar life also and the fact you should not store you lipo at full charge. Permaculture: http://longnow.org/

[parabellum]

The transmetic Li-Mn i've been drooling over would make for a 1920g 10S 10AH pack, that's 1920g or 4.2lbs of cell weight.

Are you speaking about thous 3-5 C 6s and 5s packs? How do you know they are LiMn? Have I missed something?

[Hillhater]

From page 1 of this thread...

OK. I got an email back from leadershobby.

They are apparently 0.1C charge, 3-5C discharge Li-Mn.
I have a super super hard time believing that they can only take a 0.1C charge. That's 10 hours. Not even the crappiest of all laptop cells has a charge rate THAT low. Am asking for a spec sheet.

Li-Mn is good stuff though. Usually 500-700 cycles to 80%, and it is said by many that this formulation is self-balancing.. same stuff as the konions/bionx pack.

I'll wait for a spec sheet. If the 0.1C charge figure is misquoted, it's on. If it's correct, i will order one sample pack and abuse the piss out of it liveforphysics style to see what it can really handle and how safe it is..

[neptronix]

hillhater: the listed weight is definitely lower. Yeah, the C rating is going to suck, so you absolutely have to run a high capacity. This kind of cell is not for everyone, but if you think about it... it's way lighter than lifepo4 and a bit lighter than RC lipo.. it's cheaper.. and cycle life for that chemistry is usually rated at 500-700 cycles.. so IMHO this is a real 'have your cake and eat it too' affair if you want a long range pack like i do.

This site lists their charge rate as 1A for every pack of every size, so i do doubt it's correct for this chemistry! The first pack i receive will be beaten on severely in every way to find out what it really can take, how many cycles you can get out of it, how safe it is, etc.


flathill: I see what you're getting at. There seems to be a big difference in spec between batteryspace and indymac tho.. the batteryspace ones are as light as RC lipo but are only rated at 500 cycles. The indymac is the same weight but rated at 1000 cycles to 80%.

These would be an improvement over lifepo4.. being lighter, safer, and with a better discharge rate. Think about how many people run lifepo4 here because A123 is too expensive or RC lipo is too unsafe. You could have something here. But the price of these cells needs to be $5/cell or below for them to make any sense!!

For 36v/10ah...

$4 x 50 cell = $200
$5 x 50 cell = $250
$6 x 50 cell = $300
$7 x 50 cell = $350

Now, 20C lipo's gonna cost ya $160.
3-5C li-mn i'm looking at would be $120.

Better call up indymac and see what they can do for ya. batteryspace prices are already out the window here.

[parabellum]

What about this packs?
https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp ... 4001225583
They (3 of them) weight same or less as those 6s 10A if we skip 2 extra pair of cables. They are 20c and much lighter then other packs of same specs. Can it be LiMn as well?

[neptronix]

I don't think LiMn is capable of outputting 20C. I believe that involves cobalt being involved.
I have never heard of a 20C RC Lipo battery being this light. Not even the very expensive stuff.
I do wonder if there is a typo there. But yes, you are correct. It seems to be a higher wHr/KG than all the other lipo, including the yellow/gold label 'bullistorm' stuff.

I can't find a 5S version for a direct comparison, so let's do the math.

340g / 4S = 85g per cell.

85g x 5 = 425g per 5S pack.

5s 5AH would then be 425g per cell, versus the typical RC lipo weight of 640-655g for 20C 5S 5AH.

5S 5AH x 2 = 850g for 10AH.

That would be notably lighter than the li-Mn stuff i am drooling over.

http://www.bullistorm.com/
The official bullistorm page doesn't seem to list any 20C batteries.
Something does smell fishy here, you wanna be the guinea pig on this one?