Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidDrive

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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby bobc » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:39 am

AW - If I were you, I'd do a dxf or dwg drawing of exactly what I wanted & take it to your closest laser cutting place. Any outline, any size & number of holes for little more than the cost of the material. Takes all the cutting, marking out and supply issues away. My mate got an 80 tooth 1/2" chain sprocket in 2mm stainless done for £15. What is the chance of a piece of scrap still being flat after all the cutting and drilling needed to make a brake disc?
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Jay64 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:47 am

AW, I've been using LEDs out of the cheap harbor freight LED flashlights and using the reflectors from various halogen lights. Works really good so far. I usually watch their ads for certain ones to go on sale and snatch them up when they are cheap enough. I got one from them that is super bright. I've gotten some others that I haven't converted yet, which aren't so bright in stock trim, but I'm going to see how they hold up to higher power. They were practically free, <$1, so if I burn one out experimenting, who cares. :D Just thought I would throw that idea out to you.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:46 pm

I've got a whole bunch of various LEDs and LED flashlights that are eventually planned to be used for lighting like that, but it takes a lot of time to figure out how to get them to work with the stuff I have laying around to make a good beam and spot (area lighting is useless, since I can do that with any number of things that take 5 minutes to put on the bike, including the old CFL headlight). I just don't have enough time to sit down and do that yet. :( And I don't know when I will, either. Haven't even had time to get back to the welder!


bobc wrote:AW - If I were you, I'd do a dxf or dwg drawing of exactly what I wanted & take it to your closest laser cutting place. Any outline, any size & number of holes for little more than the cost of the material. Takes all the cutting, marking out and supply issues away. My mate got an 80 tooth 1/2" chain sprocket in 2mm stainless done for £15. What is the chance of a piece of scrap still being flat after all the cutting and drilling needed to make a brake disc?

If I had any money to spend, I'd love to do that--but if I had the money, I'd just go buy something already in the right size or shape or whatever, or even a small motorcycle disc (and then machine down the surface thickness for the caliper area). I could even just go get a very large diameter tile-cutting blade, like Farfle used on his, and try that.

But when I do have money, it's never enough all at once, and I can hardly ever save it becuase things always come up, or work cuts my hours, and anything already saved gets spent on regular household or doggie stuff instead.

So...I make do with what I have or find, or get donated, and usually it works out. :)

I myself doubt that making a disc for brakes out of the scrap I have will work, for the reasons you point out, but ATM it's about the only option I have, once I have time to try it.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:13 pm

Given that the LEDs I have are probably about the same as what's used here:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =1&t=32583
I don't htink it's gonna be worth bothering with them as any kind of main lighting. 500 of them doesn't look like it does much of anything for 50W of power consumption, in the vid in that thread. :(
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:12 pm

I got my motorcycle wheel to use on this bike's rear wheel, along with a whole bunch of other stuff, visiting Mdd0127 today. Another friend drove me up there in his truck, since there was no way I could make it on those roads with that kind of cargo, even if I could haul enough battery to make it there. Plus it'd be an overnight stay, as it'd take that long to recharge them all, and still be able to ride back, even if I started at dawn or before. And I'd've had to build a trailer hitch for a REAL trailer, like a TRUCK trailer, which I'm not even sure I could haul at all without overheating the motor.
DSC05364.JPG
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Anyway: Two motorcycles (dirtbikes, really).
--Suzuki 1972 TS185 J Sierra CCI almost running (cylinder scoring, needs rebored and new larger piston, or cylinder replaced). Probably this one I will fix up.
DSC05368.JPG
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--Suzuki R90(? unknown year) might be usable for an electric conversion project, as it still has the six-speed transmission and much of the rest of it is present but not exactly intact; disc brake lines are cut, wiring damaged, handlebars BADLY bent, etc. Front rim has a tiny crack in it, too. Is missing lots of stuff; no tank, cylinder, exhaust etc.
DSC05367.JPG
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But it has an intact 18"x3.5" rear wheel, swingarm, shock, disc brake, chain, gearing, etc. And all of that *could* be made to work on this cargo bike, solving my problem of A) making an adjustable-tension swingarm, B) not having my rear wheels break from heavy cargo and hitting potholes I can't avoid, and probably other things I haven't thought of yet. Front wheel 21"x3" looks good to me, too; I can't see the crack reported:
DSC05371.JPG
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I would need new tires though, as I don't know if I could handle the vibrations riding these knobblies on teh street. :lol:

There are lots of other goodies, too, most of which need some work or are just parts for other stuff. Interestingly enough, there is a front fork and a wheel set that is exactly like the one I got off that Mongoose Basher, which I had bought explicitly for the front disc brake setup, hoping to be able to adapt that to the new bike or even CrazyBike2, but then abandoned when too many "little" problems kept cropping up, making using the really crappy fork not worth it.
DSC05369.JPG
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The rear half of this frame may well become a bolt-on rear suspension for one of my various projects, though the front half of it is damaged enough I am not sure I would trust it given that the damage is on some nearly-soda-can-thin sections of aluminum on the top tube.
DSC05376.JPG
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This frame is so light I could almost hold it up with what's left of my hair. :lol:
DSC05378.JPG
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This other frame may be usable as-is; I'll have to stick a fork and some wheels in it and see how tall it is for me.
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There's also some RC LiPo; I think there are some bad cells in there but I forgot what he said already. :( Have to test them. Stored in the oven for now, since I almost never use it. :) Plus a taillight exactly like the one I already use on CrazyBike2, and some turn signals a lot like the ones on the back of DayGlo Avenger. (unfortunately those are all broken off of the MCs above; there is a headlight on the TS185 but not on the R90).
DSC05384.JPG
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Also two Lyen 12FET controllers, one sensorless. One has no FETs and has a blown driver transistor for sure (it's actually physically blown apart). One has everything in there including new FETs, but still doesn't work, so it probalby also has a dead driver transsitor for the phase that was replaced, as he tested the new FETs ok. If I can fix the sensorless one, I can use it to test that big powerchair motor,
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 30&t=32838
which does not have hall sensors per-phase as is needed for ebike controllers.


A standup/sitdown scooter, missing seat and handlebars/controls, looks like SLA and a pretty big brushed motor, similar to what was on AussieJester's trike. Also, most of a 'recumbent' exercycle, which has a calorie counter and an adjustable load.
DSC05379.JPG
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Assuming the load is taken into account by the calorie counter (wouldn't it have to be?), then this could be used as a sort of dyno. :) Remvoe the plastics, run a chain from the drive system inside to the motor under test, whcih can be mounted with whatever mounts it needs to the former seat position. It wouldn't dyno stuff like what Liveforphysics has to do, but it might work for what little I can do; testing motors for their actual power output (measured by this in calories, then me converting that to watts) vs the power put in measured via a wattmeter. Probably not too accurate, but might be close enough.
DSC05380.JPG
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A bunch of other little stuff, most of which I have forgotten during my involuntary long nap after getting back home. :(
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby parabellum » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:21 pm

Blue Suzuki looks like DR350 1992. I gave 1 to my little brother on his 18th birthday. Have purchased it used and worked a lot on to have it fixed, know every corner. It has in frame oil cooling, right? It would not be necessary for 90, maybe 90 is a year?

Like this one. http://www.bikez.com/pictures/large.php ... s_Laur.jpg
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:58 pm

That looks a lot like it. Not sure which year; I don't feel well at all right now. not enough to get up and look at it to compare to the pics of varous years on that site. Hard enough to concentrate to type. Don't get sick, flu or whatever this is sucks.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby parabellum » Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:07 pm

Sad to read that. Hope you get on your feet quickly. I never got flu, even if all my family is sick, I am kind of immune to it. Wish that to everyone. :)
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Solcar » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:30 am

I think you might have converted me to a believer in this project, Amberwolf. I was skeptical about how easy it would be to do, but it is looking to be shaping up very well! :D
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:56 am

Still too tired to do much, though slightly better than yesterday (don't feel like it after work, though). So today it's just some pics and scrambled thoughts:

Essentially the whole swingarm, except for the front pivot and the tip of the "clamping dropouts". Note teh shiny nick in the center under the footpeg.
DSC05385.JPG
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Looks like in one of it's apparently many crashes :lol: this bike's right footpeg was knocked in a bit, and not bent back out, so that the inner bits rubbed deeply into the top edge of the swingarm, grooving it (probably quickly) each time it was passed during bump.
DSC05394.JPG
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The swingarm itself is actually three pieces, bolted together. There are two arms, one to each side and apparently identical, one simply flipped vertically. The only difference I can find ATM is that the "shelf" the disc brake caliper mount slides onto during wheel install is cut off of the left side arm, and that some bolt hole points are drilled out only on one or the other arm. So if I wanted to, I could swap arms and flip the wheel over, using disc on the left side and drive on the right, just like that. :)

Left arm inside:
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Left arm outside:
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Right arm inside:
DSC05393.JPG
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Then there is the D-shaped front piece, which both the arms bolt to and which provides the shock mount/pivot and the main frame pivot point.
DSC05386.JPG
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It's hard to see in the pics, but there is a cylinder attached ot the shock by a hose, which has the compression setting dial on it (harder/softer), and a standard schrader valve for air. I checked and it is still holding air (let just a little out).

This pic clearly shows the dividing line and bolt-points between the right arm and the D-frame:
DSC05408.JPG
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It also happens to show the actuator cylinder for the rear brake, though the hose is destroyed to the actual brake, as is the hose up to the master cylinder/reservoir (presumably the one on the right handlebar, for the front brake, whcih is missing the brake handle and the hoses/fittings). I'm not sure if any of the brake system can be made to work or not, but I'm game to try, if I can salvage replacement parts that are close enough.

They appear to be made by "NiSSin", based on the markings on righthand brake, foot brake actuator, and both the calipers front and rear. I haven't looked up any info yet.


This D-frame is the only problematic part, as it means I can't use it "over" the NuVinci. But since it just bolts on, I can *make* a new frame that bolts to those arms and then provides pivot points that *do* go over the NV's axle ends. :) And also provides the shock pivot mount, which I'm not sure if it will be the way this one does it, or if it will be the way I have it with the orange shock in previous pics.
DSC05403.JPG
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Left bolt/pivot point:
DSC05404.JPG
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If I do it this one's way, I'll need to create a shockmount like this one:
DSC05390.JPG
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at the base of the "seat tube" remainder area (actually, a lot further back, which means adding to the frame another whole triangulated section either side, meeting on top, which might make doing the rest of the seat mounts easier, anyway).



The wheel's dropouts are nice, especially with the Fibonacci-style tension aduster. Note that the disc brake caliper is not correctly shown--that angled slot at the rear lines up with that shelf you can see in the swingarm pics above, so that when you slide in the wheel the caliper is lcoked into place. The caliper would then be on the top frontside of the wheel, safest place it could probably be at crash-wise.
DSC05391.JPG
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If I flip the arms, it'll end up on the bottom front left side, instead.
Attachments
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DSC05407.JPG
DSC05407.JPG (60.8 KiB) Viewed 1301 times
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Harold in CR » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:18 am

Nice haul of goodies, AW. Should make a nice strong rear end for your cargo weight.
I have never figured out how you hauled so much weight, without tacoing the rear wheels.

I see lots of possibilities with those blue bike frame pieces. Now get well, so we can watch the new build. :) :)
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:05 pm

Harold in CR wrote:Nice haul of goodies, AW. Should make a nice strong rear end for your cargo weight.

I hope so. I'm just worried about how heavy the wheel itself is, and swingarm/shock/etc. I don't yet have the strength to work the tools to get it off, much less lift the bike to work on it, but I really want to. I thought I was feeling better yesterday but today is worse (enough I had to actaully call in sick, which I REALLY hate doing).


I have never figured out how you hauled so much weight, without tacoing the rear wheels.

Obviously, I didn't. :lol: On smooth roads I could do it, but not here; there's always somebody cutting a hole here or there for some construction project, and not patching it right, so that either it sticks way up or sinks way down, or is so loosely packed it gets spun out by heavy vehicles, leaving just a hole.


Then other places just get plain melted in summer heat, and cars decelerating push it up in waves, literally, as they stop. Only a teeny bit at a time, but a few months of that and it's like a snapshot of a stormy beach. :( That is usually at corners, exits /entrances for driveways, intersections all around and thru them, turn lanes, etc. Worse on bigger roads, especially ones that feed freeways from industrial and retail zones, because big heavy trucks run on those more.



I see lots of possibilities with those blue bike frame pieces. Now get well, so we can watch the new build. :) :)

That and fix my welder right. It's better but not great. What possibilities do wyou seae with the blue frame stuff?
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Harold in CR » Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:22 pm

What possibilities do wyou seae with the blue frame stuff?
:oops: :oops:

I had to take a phone call and didn't proof read what I wrote, before poking the submit button. :roll:

You have things well in hand. Don't pay any attention to what I write. :roll: :roll: :)
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:55 pm

:)

I got pretty far tearing down the DR350 (blue suzuki corpse), so it is now in basically three modules: Front forks/wheel, main frame/transmission, rear swingarm/wheel, and a small pile of assorted parts that had to come off to get those off, or that I intend to misuse off the bike entirely.


I forgot to take a pic of the front forks/wheel, but the main frame is down to this:
DSC05430.JPG
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and the swingarm down to this:
DSC05426.JPG
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with the shock here:
DSC05432.JPG
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including it's damping adjustment cylinder. I may well use this shock instead of the orange one I previously pictured, *but* probably not with the big heavy yellow spring. Probably I will use the MTB spring instead, as I don't have as much sprung weight to deal with as the dirtbike, by far. But this shock does have adjustable damping, which the orange shock doesn't.


The rear wheel by itself:
DSC05424.JPG
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DSC05425.JPG
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Note the tensioner, and the pin it locks against on the swingarm:
DSC05431.JPG
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There's one on each side. I was considering building one like this based on previous suggestions by others, but now I don't have to. :lol:


It took quite some doing to get the swingarm off, because the bolt holding it onto the frame fits inside it's bushings very tightly. I had to find something that was big enough to make good contact with the end of the hollow bolt, but small enough to fit in the hole the bolt goes thru, *and* long enough to go all the way out the other side. Well, I didn't have anything like that, but I did have a broken ratchet driver for a socket set, whose handle was nice and heavy duty and since the head was broken, irrelevant whether I pounded hard with a hammer on it or not. :lol: It was just long enough to pound the bolt halfway out, and then I used a piece of tubing from that old daybed/futon frame to do the rest of the work (but it bent up the tubing kinda drastically). Before getting it off, I was at this stage:
DSC05418.JPG
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YOu see the empty pivot hole on the left, just forward of the base of the shock pivot? Well, that's for what appears to be a missing linkage between the shock's frame linkage and the swingarm itself. I don't know what that linkage is supposed to look like, or how long it would be. Doesn't truly matter, since I am not using this thing the way it was designed. :)

The pivot hole on the swingarm is here:
DSC05419.JPG
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hidden in the dimness on the right, just above/forward of that tab sticking above the swingarm.

A bit easier to see it here:
DSC05421.JPG
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where it is visible as the bit sticking out from the rest of the swingarm's crossbeam, where the chain droops from. It has a grease nipple on it, too (as does the forward swingarm pivot itself).


Here you can see that the swingarm is clearly three pieces.
DSC05422.JPG
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Since I dont' really want to permanently destroy anything on this swingarm, I will probably unbolt the sides from the D section, and make my own steel plates for the sides that replace the D, with a crossbeam welded or bolted to the same spot between them. Then they'll go over the bearings here:
DSC05429.JPG
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that you can see between the dropouts and the axle nuts of the NuVinci. That makes the new pivot. Not sure there's enough axle length left to have washers and nuts to hold it all together, though. :(


So the frame would look kinda like this from the top now:
DSC05427.JPG
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THis is the rear disc brake actuator cylinder:
DSC05433.JPG
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whihc is originally mounted like this:
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The rear fender, which I probably won't use on this bike, but might use to replace the one on hte old TS185.
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Tires are Cheng Shin, the only Chinese manufacturer I've found any good ones from so far for bicycles:
DSC05434.JPG
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Drive sprocket on the trasnmission output:
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BTW: I'm not the first person to do something like this; while I was pondering doing it, GCinDC posted a pic in his own thread about another bike (not knowing I'm working on this idea, mind you) that uses these very same swingarm parts to do something similar to what I want to do. ;)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14842&p=493590#p493590
edited version of pic:
p4pb7053261.jpg
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:42 pm

Finally got a day off work when I am not totally sick in bed, so I did a bit of work on the parts above. Got the rear two bolts off each side of the swingarm-to-pivot/crossover connection, but the front ones are way too tight. I may have to drill them out. :(
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The heads are fairly soft steel, unfortunately, so they deform easy when using the pretty hard steel key I found in some of my assorted scavenged tools, right up until I broke the key out of it's brazing to the holder. :(
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I will have to take a sacrifical 1/2" to 1/4" drive adapter (if I can find a spare) and file it down to be an exact fit in these bolts, to try again. They have square holes, with slightly rounded corners, just shy of 1/4", probably 6mm. I have no square-drive tips for anything, except for 1/4" adapters for various socket-drive applications, other than the one I broke above, which was just a hair smaller than it should be for those bolts.


I've also been pondering the rear wheel. I am not going to use the heavy motorcycle chain, as I don't need that kind of power transfer, so I am going to remove the motorcycle sprocket from the wheel. I also don't really need the huge sprocket mount on there, but that part I haven't figured out how to get off. It has no bolts securing it to the rest of the hub, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be threaded in (could be, of course).
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Part of why I want to remove it is that I need the chain to run closer to the wheel, and unless I cut a chainring in half I can't put it behind that mount without removing the mount first. If the mount was bolted on, I could also just remove it and make my own mount.
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I'll also have to remove it if I ever need to replace a spoke on that side, or relace the wheel for any reason. Not necessary for the disc side:
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I took the front wheel off the forks, and pondered using *it* for the rear wheel instead. It's pretty tall, though, for what I want (bigger than a 26" bike wheel), and I'd prefer a smaller diameter rear wheel, more like a 20-22" bike-equivalent, just so it's easier to put a cargo rack over it at a lower height if I have to.

If it were possible to use the rim off the rear with the hub from the front, it might be better. Problem there is there's no sprocket mount on the front hub, so I'd have to drill thru the hub flanges to put one on, removing the speedometer cable mount/gearing module (which I probably wouldn't be using anyway).
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The disc brake side is ok, and could be used for a sprocket mount, but then I wouldn't have a rear brake.
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Also, neither front nor rear spokes would work; I'd need totally new spokes of a different length.

Since part of my reasoning for using the wheel and swingarm from the dirtbike is to simplify building things, requiring *less* custom work than using bike parts and scrap metal, mix-and-matching the two wheels just doesnt' seem practical.

What I *wish* is that I had a rim the diameter of the rear rim but the width of the front rim, and a hub that would let me easily mount sprocket on one side and disc on the other. But I'm lucky to have what I've got. :) So for now what I'll wish for instead is a slick tire that's not quite as wide as the knobby one on the rear wheel, and some luck on getting the sprocket mount off the hub to experiment with it.


Oh, I also took the disc brake caliper off the front fork, and it looks like it is getting close to needing new pads.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Harold in CR » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:26 am

Am I correct in assuming, that speedometer drive is a dog type drive ?? Tough to make out in those photos. What I did, is, took the saw blade/sprocket, and cut slots in it to fit over the raised parts of the hub, where the brake disc would fit up against, as a centering item. Then, I will bolt spacers up against the saw/sprocket, and run the mounting bolts through the brake disc-spacers-sprocket, and into the hum.

I will take photos today to show what I am talking about.

YOU could do the same, cutting slots into the sprocket, IF there are dog ears sticking up out of that hub. Then, drill holes exactly spaced, through the sprocket and through the hub, to bolt things tight. 4 holes/bolts should be plenty strong. IF you are using that nu-vinci drive, I'm also assuming you don't need a freewheel IN the wheel hub. It already uses that Nu-vinci drive as a freewheel ????

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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:44 pm

Harold in CR wrote:Am I correct in assuming, that speedometer drive is a dog type drive ??

It is, but they dont' stick out far enough to use directly. I'd have to make an adapter cylinder.


What I did, is, took the saw blade/sprocket, and cut slots in it to fit over the raised parts of the hub, where the brake disc would fit up against, as a centering item. Then, I will bolt spacers up against the saw/sprocket, and run the mounting bolts through the brake disc-spacers-sprocket, and into the hum.

But this is a useful idea I can modify: running the bolts thru the space around the hub over to the disc brake side, assuming I can find any that long that are also strong enough, in my collection.

I do not think I will have enough space on just one side of the hub for both, without offsetting the whole wheel too far, but I'm not sure. If I did have enough space, it would be better to do it that way, as I'd not have to modify the hub itself in any way.

IF you are using that nu-vinci drive, I'm also assuming you don't need a freewheel IN the wheel hub. It already uses that Nu-vinci drive as a freewheel ????

Basically, yes. The only place I will be adding a freewheel is at the NV from pedal chain, so the motor doesn't turn the pedals.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Harold in CR » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:02 pm

Instead of cluttering up your build thread, I put the new photos in my own updated thread. It shows what I have done. Maybe something there will give you some ideas. You surely don't seem to need much input on your ideas. :) :)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31790&p=499562#p499562

How do I make the link real short, like you do ?? Thanks
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby recumpence » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:35 pm

I hope this does not come across as a criticism, but, this thing is really going to be HEAVY. I enjoy your build threads, but, is there any way to focus just a bit more energy on weight saving?

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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:03 am

recumpence wrote:I hope this does not come across as a criticism, but, this thing is really going to be HEAVY. I enjoy your build threads, but, is there any way to focus just a bit more energy on weight saving?

Well, mostly it just comes across as pointing out the obvious, :lol: but FWIW, I am happy to get criticism! Especially from people that have proven they know what they're doing. ;)

Mostly, I am after *sturdy*. Heavy, well, I'm already used to that. :) If I could make a light bike and still fulfill the other requirements, which also includes spending virtually zero money (cuz I typically don't have any), I'd be more than happy to make it light.

If you (or anyone else) have ideas on how to do that, I'd be very happy to hear them. :)

I've already thought about it quite a bit, but mostly I simply don't have the right things to accomplish what I want it to do, in lighter versions. If it was just a racer, or even just a commuter, it'd be pretty easy to cut out a lot of weight, but it's more complicated than that.


Generally, the things I need to do with it require the frame be very stiff (whcih the already-heavy CrazyBike2 is not), and capable of carrying up to several hundred pounds of cargo on the frame itself, without a trailer, and without breaking the wheels, and be able to stop me really quick from 20MPH with that up to several hundred pounds of cargo still on there. (exactly how much cargo I need to carry is not possible to know exactly, but basically as much as physically possible--I don't know what I may run across that needs hauling home while I"m out riding, and there ahve been a lot of things I've missed out on because I didn't have the trailer with me and weren't there when I got back with it).


Theoretically a trike would be better suited to what I want, but I haven't got all the bits to do a FS tilting trike just yet, and if it doesn't tilt I can't ride in traffic and turn suddenly if required (which happens often enough to worry about, and is why I do not yet have a trike--the only way I could build one that wouldn't flip over like that when not loaded down would have to be very low to the ground, which makes it dangerous in traffic around here; this is part of why I built CrazyBike2 the height it is, compared to my abandoned ReCycle project).


It might turn out to not be possible to handle that much weight, but I'm on the way to trying...if it doesnt' work I'll have to figure out some sort of tilting bakfiets tadpole trike sort of thing for cargo, and stick with this one for a commuter (in which case it can be made significantly lighter).


Right now the actual bike frame itself is pretty light, but all the stuff to be added to it is going to be heavy:
--Nuvinci
--motor (mid-drive via NV)
--dirtbike rear wheel
--hefty suspension damper
--cargo frame
--battery (-ies)


The mid-drive motor is not yet determined; if it works with ebike controllers once the halls are installed, I am very interested in trying out that powerchair BLDC motor on here. Otherwise I have a 9C/GM 1000W hubmotor that is next on the list. I'd also like to test out whether a Fusin geared hubmotor motor would work well. I also have a few powerchair brushed motors with right-angle gearboxes that I've proven can work on CrazyBike2, and a couple of controllers that would work at 24-48V or so, if I get desperate. :)

The battery will probably be an experimental LiPo style I've been using on CrazyBIke2 for a while, but I might end up using one built up from those 18650 LiCo cells if I ever get to finish sorting/testing them. Or the Vpower/CammyCC LiFePO4 pack. I've also got 10 TS 60Ah cells, but that's only about 32V, and nearly 45lbs. Fortunatley it doesnt' matter for the speed of the bike since it's a middrive, and would probably be ideal for the BLDC powerchair motor, compared to my other options ATM.

Suspension will be lighter if I use the MTB springs with the Suzuki damper than if I use the orange damper I have on there now. I may find that I have to use the Suzuki's spring, too, which will add several pounds to it, depending on how it all acts under heavy load. I'd almost rather use airsprings, but I don't have any and haven't had the time to experiment with making my own.

Cargo frame could be lighter using Cromoly, but I don't have enough in single-lengths (just bits of bike frames that arent' all the same diameter tubing) to do it, so I currently plan to use that red square steel tubing to do it. It's not as strong as I would like, certainly not as strong as the similar stuff used on CrazyBike2's cargo rails, so I intend to triangulate it to make it stiffer/stronger. As I am not certain exactly how strong it needs to be, I'd rather overbuild it than later find out the hard way it wasn't strong enough. ;)

The rear wheel is an issue. A bike wheel is not strong enough to deal with what I need to do--at least, not the wheels I have available, or can build from the parts I have available. The only thing I have that's strong enough is one of the dirtbike wheels, which *are* too heavy, but I dont' have any other options yet. I once considered "duallie" rear wheels, basically two complete wheels on the same axle with no space between them, but I don't think it would be as strong even on level straight road as the dirtbike wheel, and if I was turning or leaning it would definitely not be, as only one wheel would take any load then. Theoretically I might be able to interlace the wheels so the spokes are half from one hub and half from the other on either rim, but I'm not sure that would do anything useful, and might make the wheels weaker.

The swingarm off the Suzuki (minus it's pivot/crossbrace) is actually lighter than what I would have built from the treadmill steel, and probably stronger. I'll still be using some heavy steel for the pivot/crossbrace replacement, but it will be lighter than the Suzuki version, and shoudl still be lighter overall than what I would ahve built of all-steel.


Anyhow, that's a "few" thoughts on the matter for now. :)

Harold in CR wrote:Instead of cluttering up your build thread, I put the new photos in my own updated thread. It shows what I have done. Maybe something there will give you some ideas. You surely don't seem to need much input on your ideas. :) :)

Oh, I need lots of input--just because I have a lot of what seem like well-thought-out ideas doesn't mean they're any good! :lol: I'll go take a look at your thread and pics--thanks!

I'm not sure about the link--mine just tend to show up that way automatically? There is a checkbox when you post for "Do not automatically parse URLs", whcih is always unchecked for me. What is it for you?
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby mdd0127 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:35 am

I'm glad to see you're getting some use out of that stuff already!

The rear sprocket is a "cush drive" Just pull out on it and it will come off. It has rubber bushings inside that ride between the sprocket carrier and hub.

If you end up pulling the trans case apart and want to send me the crankshaft, I'd happily make you a straight shaft crank replacement with a sprocket hub lined up with the timing chain slot. Use that six speed! Might want to hurry though. I'm getting really close to putting the shop in indefinite storage and finding a new country to call home! The response to my videos and sale threads has been absolutely depressing so far :roll:

Anyway, let me know if you want me to turn one out!

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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:16 am

mdd0127 wrote:I'm glad to see you're getting some use out of that stuff already!

Oh, yes, indeed. :) The friend that helped me pick it all up from your place is poking around to see what he can find for parts to fix the older Suzuki. I've got the LiPo in my oven waiting for me to have time to take the dead cells out and then put them on (probably) DayGlo Avenger to power the Fusin, or maybe the Nishiki if I move the Fusin to that for just a lightweight work-commuter with no cargo capability. (or put the tiny TongXin as a chaindrive on the Nishiki).


The rear sprocket is a "cush drive" Just pull out on it and it will come off. It has rubber bushings inside that ride between the sprocket carrier and hub.

OH! I didn't even think of that. :lol: :oops:

And so, you are right:
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Looks like the tabs stick up far enough to use to drive a sprocket with, or I can use the cush pads to drive a homemade version of the sprocket adapter that is much lighter (the one that came on it is several pounds, including the sprocket!)
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If you end up pulling the trans case apart and want to send me the crankshaft, I'd happily make you a straight shaft crank replacement with a sprocket hub lined up with the timing chain slot. Use that six speed! Might want to hurry though. I'm getting really close to putting the shop in indefinite storage and finding a new country to call home! The response to my videos and sale threads has been absolutely depressing so far :roll:

Well, remember it can also take time for the right person to turn up when selling something. :(

I am definitely going to use the six-speed on something, but it wont' be this particular bike, as the NuVinci will be tested out on it first. If that doesn't work out as well as expected, I might see if it's possible to lighten up the tranny some (probably not) and use it on the bike; more likely I'd just try out a couple of 3-speed IGH's in series for more gears. (or in parallel for more power handling capacity).

It's mroe likely I'll use the six-speed on a heavy cargo trike.

Have you checked with Justin or anyone else on those other ideas we'd briefly discussed?
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby mdd0127 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:31 am

I haven't really had time to check with anyone about anything. It's such a complex deal, I know I need to word everything just right to get the intention across. Hopefully the right person sees something I have that they like and we can find a place where we belong and I can continue with that idea.

That trans is pretty heavy but I think you'll find a lot of the weight is in the counter-weighted crankshaft. My initial thought when I picked up that bike was to mount a yanmar diesel on it driving the trans through the timing slot........I'm sure you'll find something neat to do with it!
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:46 am

mdd0127 wrote:That trans is pretty heavy but I think you'll find a lot of the weight is in the counter-weighted crankshaft. My initial thought when I picked up that bike was to mount a yanmar diesel on it driving the trans through the timing slot........I'm sure you'll find something neat to do with it!

Which Yanmar? I took a gander at their site, but not sure which type might fit. (not that I can get one but you never know what I run across....) Would be interesting to have a bike that could run on WVO or something. :)


I'll try to get to the trans and open it up soon, but working six days a week it's hard to find time for much of anything outside of taking care of the dogs and sleeping (or rather, trying to, and browsing ES while I'm trying to doze off again).
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby recumpence » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:45 am

OK, I see. I know it is a cargo bike (and a low budget bike), but I had no idea you were looking to carry that much weight. That explains it. :)

I rarely carry anything on my bike/s. So, I just build what will work for my particular application, which it looks like you are doing too.

Alright, onward Captain!

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