The Unofficial 'CroMotor' Owners Tech-Tips Thread

gensem said:
im pretty sure everything else aside the hub motor was crap (even the hub had flaws) and that was before the inflation....

I take it you mean the H35 motors. It wasn't the motor, since the stator of the motor of this thread may come out of the same factory. The magnet backing ring is obviously for a moto with the XL spoke holes. They just used a bike hubbie axle and covers. Good ole Kenny just ordered the wrong combination of parts to slap together and then pawns it off as some big new deal without even testing his parts combination.

I'd trust HAL and Accountant to do it right long before putting faith in Kenny.

Flathill,
There was a complete lack of interest here in scooter hubbies 2 and 3 years ago, and the factory I tracked down was the only one I could find that did spoke flanges instead of built on rims. I tried pushing them to do some with bike friendly axles and covers, but I couldn't swing the 10,000 unit minimum they wanted for the special order. They just couldn't fathom that anyone would want to put a hubbie they use for emotos on an ebike. I on the other hand can't fathom why anyone would put a relatively low power motor on a 300lb pig. :lol:

There's all kinds of motor bargains out there, and I'm just really waiting for better controllers to drive the higher Kv hubbies I already have and the biggie which is lower battery prices for the good stuff that is safe enough to go on something for sale.
 
John the motor is 9,5 Kv, markobetti just posted that info.

that would do 665rpm/m at 70v
so
665 x 60 x "wheel diameter (2,1 meter)" /1000

a 26" wheel would reach 84km/h (unload) and almost 60km/h loaded???
is my calculations right?

doesnt seem right.
 
gensem said:
John the motor is 9,5 Kv, markobetti just posted that info.

that would do 665rpm/m at 70v
so
665 x 60 x "wheel diameter (2,1 meter)" /1000

a 26" wheel would reach 84km/h (unload) and almost 60km/h loaded? ???
is my calculation right?

doesnt seem right.

665RPM at 70v isn't especially high, that's X5304 territory. That's reassuring, it might not be, to use IceCube's expression, it might not be such an "amps whore" after all. :D
 
The Mighty Volt said:
gensem said:
John the motor is 9,5 Kv, markobetti just posted that info.

that would do 665rpm/m at 70v
so
665 x 60 x "wheel diameter (2,1 meter)" /1000

a 26" wheel would reach 84km/h (unload) and almost 60km/h loaded? ???
is my calculation right?

doesnt seem right.

665RPM at 70v isn't especially high, that's X5304 territory. That's reassuring, it might not be, to use IceCube's expression, it might not be such an "amps whore" after all. :D

but the kv cant be right, it shoulda be somewhere in between the 03 an 04
I was expecting something toward 770rpm at 70v
 
The Mighty Volt said:
...it might not be such an "amps whore" after all. :D

This could open up use to a larger but slightly less 'Woo-Hoo!' demographic.
Really really wanting some detailed empirical measurements. (hint, hint: get building guys... ;))
 
gensem said:
John the motor is 9,5 Kv, markobetti just posted that info.

that would do 665rpm/m at 70v
so
665 x 60 x "wheel diameter (2,1 meter)" /1000

a 26" wheel would reach 84km/h (unload) and almost 60km/h loaded???
is my calculations right?

doesnt seem right.

That's good from the standpoint of being easier on controllers. I'd think on the flats it would get to a significantly higher% of no-load rpm. I prefer higher Kv motors, given their higher power potential for an otherwise identical motor due to the 100V limit for reasonably priced high power controllers.
 
I get your point John... Hal probably did that so the average joe can keep using 24s lipo and not blow the controller.
The 17kv one ll be fun to watch.
:)
 
gensem said:
I get your point John... Hal probably did that so the average joe can keep using 24s lipo and not blow the controller.
The 17kv one ll be fun to watch.
:)

It think it was to be able to use the big bike wheels. It should be a blast. The original X5's have only a 30mm stator, and your's is 50mm. :mrgreen:

Pray you don't run out of juice. It will be no fun to pedal.
 
I might have to go to 24" wheels now, really want to stay with 20" bicycle/16" moped wheels, especially since I just bought some nice Perelli ML75 tires. 2.5x16" front and 2.75x16" rear for my 20" wheels which should come out to just over 21" diameter. Just waiting to receive the motor so i can take it to my bike shop and watch the wheel builder squirm when he see's it.

That means an unloaded speed of 73.5 mph @ 125V. My unloaded 9C 2806 did 74mph tonight at 100% throttle and it goes at least 52 mph at that setting and 56mph at 105% throttle which is 70% of unloaded speed for the 100% setting (cycle analyst won't read halls over 100% throttle so I don't know wheel speed but I'd guess it's almost 90mph based on the sound alone). Accountant said this should be much higher, especially since I'm sticking with small wheels so if I get 90% of unloaded speed, I'll be quite happy with a 66mph top speed and crazy fast acceleration with the ability to climb any hill. Even if it only does 85% that's still 62mph which is still crazy fast. I think I'm going to call 60mph my limit for bicycle parts for now :D , but just for now :twisted: Got a fabricator interested in building some interesting projects.

Not going to be a cheap build since it needs custom length 12 gauge spokes at minimum and they will have to be special ordered. I'm hooked on 20" bicycle / 16" moped wheels with motors, the acceleration is just so nutty and everything runs a lot cooler since it get to speed so much faster and easier.
 
Anyone know the hall and phase wiring combination for connecting to a lyen controller?
 
patrickza said:
Anyone know the hall and phase wiring combination for connecting to a lyen controller?

No, but it would take me longer to get the spades out of the hall connector that it would take to find the right combination. Let me know if you want to know the easy way, and ignore suggestions of spreadsheet and 36 nonsense.
 
John in CR said:
Let me know if you want to know the easy way, and ignore suggestions of spreadsheet and 36 nonsense.

Yes please!
 
Be careful of the pedals in case you get a reverse, so you don't get whacked or hit your kickstand. Get the motor wheel off the ground, and remember to only try small throttle pulses when testing combos. Start with only the throttle, battery, controller, and motor. Add other stuff after you get it running. Yes, there are 36 possible combinations of the 3 halls, and 3 phases, but the are 6 good combos, 3 forward and 3 reverse. People typically run into trouble by swapping too many wires around at once. Every hall combo has 1 good phase combo, and every phase combo has 1 good hall combo. It could be forward or it could be reverse. Typically it's easier to swap phases, so leave the halls alone unless you get a reverse.

First, try all six combinations of phase wires. You will get a good smooth forward or a good smooth reverse as one of those combos. Only swap 2 at a time when changing them, because it's easier to be systematic. If the good combo is reverse, then you need to swap 2, any 2, and only 2 of the 3 hall wires (not red or black). After swapping the 2 halls, then try the other 5 phase combos (you already know the current one won't work) until you get the good smooth forward.


John
 
Thanks that's a great simple explanation. Sounds like it should be a quick setup!

I've just got my frame back from being beefed up a little. I'm sure it wasn't too necessary, but with this much power and using regen I wanted a clamping dropout. I've also added 10mm of steel on each side for a total of 20mm dropouts. Total overkill, but I like it that way! Who knows, maybe at some point I'll push this motor to the limits:
new_dropout.jpg
 
Nice dropouts :!: Big thick spokes :D No disc rotor :?: How do you keep those motor wires safe from chafe at the axle :?:
 
That's just a test fit. Brake rotor etc still coming of course!
 
patrickza said:
Thanks that's a great simple explanation. Sounds like it should be a quick setup!

I've just got my frame back from being beefed up a little. I'm sure it wasn't too necessary, but with this much power and using regen I wanted a clamping dropout. I've also added 10mm of steel on each side for a total of 20mm dropouts. Total overkill, but I like it that way! Who knows, maybe at some point I'll push this motor to the limits:
new_dropout.jpg

I'd suggest pointing the phase wires downwards, that way any water that gets on 'em will flow away from the motor, not into it... looks good otherwise!!
 
@Patrickza That frame mod you have made is not overkill at all, it is pure genius. I ran my HS35 in my Greyborg stock and spun the axle in the dropout twice - now my dopouts hang more open and loose than Borat's wife's nasty, which we know is looser than a tired dogs mouth or a wizards sleeve. If the CroMotor is half the monster we are told, you are a wise, wise man. I have thought of doing exactly what you have done, but without the attached piece (ie, just drilling through the end of the drop-out, and bolting through that). You have saved yourself future heartache, trust me as a man who has been there already...

EDIT: PS. so jealous of you with the CroMotor in the Gborg. I am waiting painfully on my 5403, the Greyborg frame is such an urban assault vehicle that you quickly take your motor to its limits. My HS35 is screaming and crying in pain (20S/50amps), I can taste and smell my windings most rides (too hot to hold a hand on), I am just waiting on a motor that can keep up with the frame, "CroTeam" are geniuses, I really think if most members got to see the quality of the greyborg frame in motion they would be amazed. With my Lyen 24 Fet, my limitation now is just motor related.....
 
sn0wchyld said:
I'd suggest pointing the phase wires downwards, that way any water that gets on 'em will flow away from the motor, not into it...
This is an example of the electrician's "drip loop". Position all equipment openings downward and leave some slack in the associated wiring so there is a loop lower than the opening. Water/moisture will flow to the low point of the loop and drip from there rather than entering the component. This policy was conceived for fixed equipment installations, but the underlying idea is often adaptable to (exposed) vehicle installations by angling the openings down and a bit rearward.

The best step in waterproofing is making water not want to enter in the first place....
 
zombiess said:
Hubmonster official received today, time for the fun with the wheel smith now.

Hey now, I coined the term and these aren't Hubmonsters. I even decided to snap up the domain name.
 
After talking with the wheel builder who I very knowledgeable we decided he would drill holes for a 14 gauge spokes with 13 gauge butts since the holes are so large. Spoke itself is 14 gauge, but the part that mounts to the hub is 13 gauge. Spokes are 321 stainless. I was worried about them only being 14 gauge for strength reasons, but he re-assure me that with a 20" wheel and single cross I'll be fine the way he's building it (and he is aware I will be dumping 20-30kw at some point and targeting 100mph). He said I'd need to go to a bigger spoke for a bigger wheel. All threads will be deep in the nipple fore extra strength (he did a neat little demo for me showing me how important it is to have all threads in the nipple for strength, what a HUGE difference it makes). I also have my 2806 in a 20" wheel with 14 gauge spokes and it's been doing just fine too and it wasn't built nearly as well as what this guy does.

He asked how many watts I planned to dump into it so he's familiar with ebikes and has built some crazy bicycles himself. He was just a little shocked when I told him I was regularly going to be doing 7-8KW and eventually 20-30KW bursts when I get a high voltage controller. Need something that can handle at least 200V safely.

Total wheel build cost will be about $140 with decent double wall 28mm wide wheel and should be done next Monday or Tuesday. At least this way I don't have to worry about getting expensive custom spokes. Can't wait to get this thing back and try it out. I hope I can get close to 60mph out of it at 125V. Won't have to worry about over heating it at my current power levels, that's for sure.
 
You guys and your wheels that need truing all the time crack me up. This motor needs motorcycle spokes, and no, 14ga isn't going to cut it.
 
John isnt moto spokes made of UCP and not made using stainless steel?
I was thinking about using a chooperus like wheels and 12g steel sapim, any other options using steel?
 
John in CR said:
You guys and your wheels that need truing all the time crack me up. This motor needs motorcycle spokes, and no, 14ga isn't going to cut it.

It's probably a lot easier for you to get stuff done in Costa Rica due to less litigation problems, some shops here just simple won't touch some things because they are terrified of being sued.

This shop also has as sign on the door that states they absolutely will do no work on any motorized vehicle... guess I'm the exception since the head guy there likes nutty stuff :)

Motorcycle spokes would be nice but I haven't found a shop in town to build one yet and no bike shop will touch a motorcycle spoke that I've talked to. I'll post up if I break any spokes or have any issues, but I trust the guy doing my build. He said there is more that goes into a wheel build than just the gauge of the spokes. My other 20" wheel with the 2806 is doing fine for about 200 miles so far, haven't even had to tighten the spokes up yet. Unfortunately my cheap ass when with a crap rim at the time without thinking and I regret it. The wheel is perfectly round but has a small high spot (I noticed due to using linear pulls on it) and the shop that built it said they did the best they could (not the current shop I'm using). I bet the guy who is doing my current build could fix it but I'm not gonna fix what isn't broken since it's a non issue for me.

How many people on here have posted about breaking crappy Chinese spokes? Hell, my first wheel I ordered from ebikes.ca came with a freaking flat spot and out of round and the package was in perfect condition. I have several of those Chinese spokes that came out of it and they are crap, no where near the 14 gauge spokes I'm using now which are much stronger.

How many others here are putting one of these motors in a 20" bicycle wheel or 16" moped wheel besides me?

He did mention that if I go to a larger wheel than a 20" I should probably go to at least an 8 gauge, the problem with this motor is the spoke holes are so large.

****EDIT****
Just found a shop, for 36 custom length 8 gauge spokes, wheel and building it would cost me $250-300 depending on the wheel. If I put another one of these motors in a larger wheel I'll probably go this route.
 
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