Re: avanti D8085 - maybe to be renamed D8-93??

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.

Re: avanti D8085 - maybe to be renamed D8-93??

Postby sn0wchyld » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:41 pm

EDIT

After getting some great info and tips from the sphere over the past few weeks, I've finally started to order parts for my 2nd build. As such I thought I may as well turn this into the build thread. The next 4 odd pages contain nothing but my research and help/tips from ES members. Ill reserve myself a few spots towards the end of page 4/start of page 5 for a pic log.

This particular build will be using a Avanti D8 from 2002ish... a cromolly frame, and an overall good looking DH bike if you ask me...
Image

Here is the rough idea of what it will look like in the long run...
Image

Initially however, since I have a total of 0 exp points in the area of mid drives, Ill be bolting everything/welding everything to the current frame. once i've got a rough system going ill either build a 2nd similar one for the norko before modding the frame to house the drive system + batts, or if I can stop the norko from breaking spokes like dry pasta then ill leave the HT on there and ill go strait into modding the D8 frame.

Im hoping to have the intial 'bushpig' version running before uni starts in march next year, but chances are ill go over that target to some degree.

With luck ill have enough done to start, and possibly finish the frame mod in the mid year break.

Wish me luck fellas.



-------- Original post -------

The problem is that there's a few too many options, Im kinda at a loss as to what to go for... the options as I see it are a recumpence asto + v4 system, a cyclone 1200w, or going out on my own, probably using a motor like this
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/MAG-S28-400.html
or flying monkeys
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=19841

I really want to keep the rear gears on my D8 for both myself and the motor. Even if its only 3 spd or something, I'd much prefer it to a single speed for the motor. Is this doable at higher power levels (~4-5kw peaks)? the ultimate plan is to build something like timmas bike, cutting out the lower downtube of the D8 to put in a large steel box that houses both battery and motor.

The question is, what to go for?

the cyclone is a bit short on power for what I ultimately want (3-5 peak, less than 1kw cont.) and also noisy as hell. on the other hand its cheap, availalbe, and relatively simple to get up and running. (now if only my women were the same :twisted: )

The astro is a real stretch in terms of $$, I'd have to wait a few months to afford it, and even then Im guessing theres far more to buy than just what you get of recumpence (more frewheels etc), but unlike the cyclone, its relatively quiet (on a RC scale anyway) and near bullet proof.

And going out on my own could potentially be cheaper, but will probably take ages, since I don't yet have all the knowhow, and may not be as reliable. Chances are it wont actually be cheaper either...


My thoughts are to start with a cyclone, as their cheap and set me up with a number of bits and pieces that ill need in the future if I decide to up the power, but my main concern is partially the racket they make, and the concern that the parts wont be good enough to handle it If I bolt a 3-5kw 80 100 or a astro in place of the cyclone motor... in wich case I may be better off just saving for the higher end kits?

So wadda ya all think? Go with the cyclone, since it looks like it'd be a good introduction to building a mid drive? or save and dive in the deep end with a recumpence? or just say Fk it all and go out on my own??
Last edited by sn0wchyld on Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:03 pm, edited 9 times in total. View post history.
My builds:
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Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby AussieJester » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:03 pm

I think Technically, An "RC" Build is only that if you use a motor designed for use in a radio controlled model...a cyclone
setup isn't an "RC" setup, it was designed for an e-bike... That said, if you are dead set on giving this mid drive setup a ago i would skip the cyclone and go directly to the Astro or Turnigy with a recumpence drive they are tried and tested no messing about bolt em in and they just work...left to buy after reduction drive (motor and batteries aside) a controller or ESC a freewheel a sprcocket adapter sprocket throttle and throttle interface of some kind (Matt does the servo tester 'kitted with magura throttle') You can also use the Cycle Analyst RC version for throttle interface, i use it its freakin awsome... A little birdie did tell me there might also be another very affordable reduction setup available soon, keep an eye out in the forsale section of ES...might be a 2 speed or 3 if your quick also ;-)

Best of luck

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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:12 pm

AussieJester wrote:I think Technically, An "RC" Build is only that if you use a motor designed for use in a radio controlled model...a cyclone
setup isn't an "RC" setup, it was designed for an e-bike... That said, if you are dead set on giving this mid drive setup a ago i would skip the cyclone and go directly to the Astro or Turnigy with a recumpence drive they are tried and tested no messing about bolt em in and they just work...left to buy after reduction drive (motor and batteries aside) a freewheel a sprcocket adapter sprocket throttle and throttle interface of some kind (Matt does the servo tester 'kitted with magura throttle') You can also use the Cycle Analyst RC version for throttle interface, i use it its freakin awsome... A little birdie did tell me there might also be another very affordable reduction setup available soon, keep an eye out in the forsale section of ES...might be a 2 speed or 3 if your quick also ;-)

Best of luck

KiM



haha so sorry aj, a MID drive build then. didnt mean to cause offence :wink: .

Cost and a slight lack of knowledge is the main barrier to a 'true' rc drive. Is it worth buying the cyclone front crank freewheel parts (ie to run the motor via the front crank)? or are they easy enough to find and build yourself?
My builds:
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Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby Philistine » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:32 pm

I say go the RC build, don't mess around with the Cyclone. I know a few people on here are really happy with their Cyclone setups, but in my opinion if you are going to go to all the trouble of getting a cyclone properly installed so it won't constantly cause you problems, you may as well shell the extra bucks and get the awesome performance of an RC setup. In my opinion cyclones are acceptable as a form of ebike, but they are hardly performance setups. My 1200W cyclone was acceptable as a commuter (but required constant maintenance, because I hadn't made the effort of welding on mounts for the motor as some have), but I certainly don't consider it "fun" to ride. My cyclone is my single biggest ebike purchase regret/waste of money in my opinion (after all my bad mouthing, if you are thinking of going Cyclone send me a PM and I will sell you mine dirt cheap).
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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby AussieJester » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:37 pm

sn0wchyld wrote:haha so sorry aj, a MID drive build then. didnt mean to cause offence :wink: .


LoL..no offence taken my friend, just clarifying for others who will read the thread ;-)
The freewheeling crank that comes with the Cyclone kits can be bought for about 20 bucks give or take, from sick bikes
the freewheel thats on the Cyclone version is rubbish, you need the White Industries freewheel
which is also available from sick bikes ;-) You'll have a lil change from a hundred bucks
for crank and freewheel...

If your after high performance light weight build its hard to go past the RC motors the cyclones won't
give you anywhere near the performance you will get from a big Turnigy or Astro motor...

@Philistine...if it was the 1500watt cyclone i would buy it myself, tiz what i want for my old blue
cruiser ;-)

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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby flyinmonkie » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:34 am

If you are worried about the complication of the RC setups (throttle and controller set up) then a BMC 1500w or 2000w could be a good a option. You can get them at superkids.com with controllers and throttles. Then it would be a plug an play system as far as hooking up motor and controller. You would have to make a motor mount and possibly a reduction. You might be able to adapt one of Matt's V1 or V2 drives to fit a BMC.

Keep an eye on what Matt is doing. He is asking for recommendations on ideas for a new drive.

Clay
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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:50 am

-well, looks like the general consensus is to forget cyclone and go the good stuff 8), though im still keen to hear others opinions...

Im leaning toward saving for the v4 + astro, as to be honest Im not sure I want to take on a 80-100 with all the hall placing and custom reduction drive, plus they seem a fair whack noisier too (riding this on trails etc, so quiet = good). Hopefully this'll be the last eBIKE build for a while too, ive got some other things in mind that I want to strap high wattage electric motors too :twisted: .

pm sent phili, might be good to have a backup up and running quickly.

This is what got me looking at cyclones again...

that and the fact that the HT doesnt handle the rough stuff so well, though that was no surprise.
just another crazy vid from those crazy russians. I doubt there's many ebikes out there that could take THAT :shock:




and AJ, are these the guys your refering to? looks like they're USA based? if so, how quick are they on shipping?
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/catalog.php?osCsid=i0nktv9tbdvocga73o39fs3k21

cheers lads.
My builds:
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Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:05 am

flyinmonkie wrote:If you are worried about the complication of the RC setups (throttle and controller set up) then a BMC 1500w or 2000w could be a good a option. You can get them at superkids.com with controllers and throttles. Then it would be a plug an play system as far as hooking up motor and controller. You would have to make a motor mount and possibly a reduction. You might be able to adapt one of Matt's V1 or V2 drives to fit a BMC.

Keep an eye on what Matt is doing. He is asking for recommendations on ideas for a new drive.

Clay


yea man they're certainly another option. I do love the simplicity of the brushed motors too. Im not too worried about the controller/motor setup, i am studying to become an electrical engineer after all so doing this kinda shit is a good idea anyway. Its more that I want to get one up and running cause there's other projects I want to take on, as well as being able to pull my norko apart while still having a bike thats running over the summer holidays.

a 2speed from matt would be nice, but really, so long as I can run it through the front crank Ill be more than happy with a 1spd.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby Kurt » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:51 am

as to be honest Im not sure I want to take on a 80-100 with all the hall placing and custom reduction drive, plus they seem a fair whack noisier too (riding this on trails etc, so quiet = good).



You don't have to put halls in a Turnigy 80 -100 motor. They work fine on a hv160 controller. You don't need a custom reduction drive ...well not unless you call custom drilling 4 holes to mount it to one of mats v4 drives. Yes the Astro might be a little quieter but I wouldn't say its a lot quieter.(just judging from videos) It would be nice to see DB readings to prove this.

To be honest if your planing on putting together a rc system especially through the cranks and building a custom frame. A simple task like fitting hall sensors is the least of your concerns especially if you have a background in Electronics. Halls are only necessary if you want to use a ebike controller.

If money is a concern I would go with matts 4v drive as in the end its cheap for the quality and you will save money in the long run. I would go with a turnigy (not easy to get now) But something equivalent. Fit halls to it with a good size 18 - 24 fett lyen controller and gear the thing down to buggery if you want to take it off road.

The sensor less rc motors work fine on road but. I would say off-road a e bike controller would be better for the slow stop start off road.

Don't dismiss the BMC motors. They look like a good mid size brushless plug and play motor at a reasonable price and would make a solid package.

I guess you have to work out a budget. Spend the money where it counts.Think hard about what you want the bike to do 90% of the time and be realistic about what kind of performance your budget will buy.You don't want to build somthing that's on the ragged edge of performance and get dishearten when you need to replace a $600 motor or $300 controller.


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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby AussieJester » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:39 am

sn0wchyld wrote:and AJ, are these the guys your refering to? looks like they're USA based? if so, how quick are they on shipping?
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/catalog.php?osCsid=i0nktv9tbdvocga73o39fs3k21


That be the place mate, they are oober reliable have an outstanding track record...

RE: halls...i have tried them with 44v setup it wasn't impressive at all, Thud has gone to 66v setup
with 12fet Infineon and likens it to the hv160 on 44v, which is what i use now, combined
with Justin's new RC_Cycle Analyst the throttle control is very good for a sensorless setup IMHO.

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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby gtadmin » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:27 am

Kurt wrote:I guess you have to work out a budget. Spend the money where it counts.Think hard about what you want the bike to do 90% of the time and be realistic about what kind of performance your budget will buy.You don't want to build somthing that's on the ragged edge of performance and get dishearten when you need to replace a $600 motor or $300 controller.

Really sound advice

AJ wrote:A little birdie did tell me there might also be another very affordable reduction setup available soon, keep an eye out in the forsale section of ES...might be a 2 speed or 3 if your quick also :wink:

Did this birdie happen to mention the ratios of the three speed?

Good luck sn0wchyld
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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby Tench » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:57 pm

I too am just in early stages of putting another mid drive together, a lot more ambitious this time but no leaks of info or pics untill its done.
I have been down the cyclone route, i built one using the 900w motor, it has been utterly reliable, not layed a spanner on it for months and the father in law goes to the pub on it nearly every day! 72 years old with an Ebike grin!! :mrgreen: click the link in my sig to see the build thread. I dont regret using a cyclone, yes they do have a little gear noise from the planetary reduction unit (a rebuild with some quality grease helps) but a good little motor, ours will pull 1500w no problem from the 36v 20a life batt with a range of 30 miles, it fires itself along very nicely if the gears are used. A cylone build is a good starting point and gives you more understanding of the ebike systems which can only help you to produce better builds in the future. dont rule one out. I would imagine a 1200w on 48v would be a respectable motor. It wont break any records but it will get you there with a grin.

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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby AussieJester » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:06 pm

A little birdie did tell me there might also be another very affordable reduction setup available soon, keep an eye out in the forsale section of ES...might be a 2 speed or 3 if your quick also
Did this birdie happen to mention the ratios of the three speed?


No you misunderstoog buddy, I was talking quantity
Available not number of gears. There maybe 2-3
Units available.

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Re: So I want to start an RC build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:06 pm

So ive been mulling over the options for the past few weeks, and im not really any closer to a decision. one of matts systems is probably going to stretch the budget too much, though a reduction drive may be on the cards... motor wise im still split between the bmc's from superkids or a 'turnigy' from leaders hobby.

another option came to mind though, and thats to use a high turn count MAC hub - its a bit bigger than I was originally thinking but It may be a good option to start with on a mid drive build, since I already plan on ordering a second 12fet for my other bike, and it removes the need for any reduction drive to the cranks (apart from maybe a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio of gears). there also pretty cheap when you take into account the lack of extra reductions/CC controllers etc.

What's peoples thoughts? Have many people used geared hubs as mid drives?

the main turnoffs for me on the first options is the turnigy requires atleast a 2 stage reduction, and the CC controllers from what Ive read dont handle partial throttle too well (bad for trail riding/steep hills), and the higher power bmcs are kinda large and heavy, and still need some reduction, plus I haven't heard back from em after sending a couple of emails. Size wise they're about the same as a MAC (mac's are 160MM??, i figure I can reduce this by milling off the flange) but the mac would spin at around 3-400 rpm at ~60V vs ~5500 for the BMC.
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Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby flyinmonkie » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:10 am

So you haven't heard from Superkids either. It is a shame, because I have had good service from them in the past. It would be nice to just hear if the BMC scooter motors are available or not or if they expect some soon. If they has some I would have one on the way.

Anyway, I'll be watching to see what you come up with as well. Good luck

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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:23 am

flyinmonkie wrote:So you haven't heard from Superkids either. It is a shame, because I have had good service from them in the past. It would be nice to just hear if the BMC scooter motors are available or not or if they expect some soon. If they has some I would have one on the way.

Anyway, I'll be watching to see what you come up with as well. Good luck

Clay

Just sent 'em another asking when they expect stock. not going to hold my breath though.

Another question just came up too, the option of rewinding a turnigy motor. Most people say its a PITA and hard on the hands, but what about using multiple strands of thinner paralleled wire? is there a reason most people go with thick beefy wire? and Im looking at something like this...
https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224161
is it worth rewinding for a lower kv? or just too small to be worth while?

Back to supkerkids...
yea the 1500w one looked about perfect, assuming it'd handle short peaks above that. 2kw one is just a tad to big (18cm). May as well use a HT as a mid drive lol... hrm... im off to mesure the HT if it had no spoke flange...

edit
yep, the HT would be about 180mm wihtout the flanges too. still to tall but would make for an interesting mid drive project on a custom frame, maybe in the future...
Last edited by sn0wchyld on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby Gregory » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:33 am

Timma was selling a matt s reduction drive in the for sale - new section of the forums.


1) x5305 Hub Motor in a 24" Sun rim with 10G spokes, Kelly 72601 controller, 74V 10Ah Turnigy LiPo 20C Battery and CycleAnalyst
2) Mac 10T rear hub in a 700C "comfort bike" 15S 5Ah LiPo, stock 28A Xie Cheng controller
3) 38" Longboard, Turnigy 6374, CC Mamba XL2 ESC
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:10 am

Gregory wrote:Timma was selling a matt s reduction drive in the for sale - new section of the forums.


thanks for the tip, pm'ed timma but looks like it's a astro only thing.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby Whiplash » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:01 am

My vote is for either the BMC motors or the MAC in a mid drive like I am doing. The nice thing about the MAC is I am hoping to have a fairly universal mounting bracket for it soon, that will make the install much easier, and I would not recommend more than 2500 to 3000 watts peak for short bursts. I have had the RC thing and its just a bear to make them quiet and they are really touchy on the throttle (high strung) which is fun sometimes but not others...
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby wineboyrider » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:20 am

What about the Golden Motors non-hub ? Lightcycle built a bent with one...? http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29810&start=30
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby bandaro » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:39 pm

I would suggest an rc, they may be a little more noisy, but you can get 3kw easily from a 800g motor, the main problem I have with them is fitting a multi stage reduction to the cranks so they are not spinning at 500 rpm. Looking at the bldc motors, one was 8.8kg and only managed 800 watts, so for me personally that is far too heavy, the whole unit including batteries is that weight, and manages 3kw...

Similar problem with hubbies, they are heavier than a well designed reduction system, and for me weight is more of an issue than noise. I am currently several versions into a brushless bb drive, will cut the gearbox out wednesday (already have an mdf one so it will fit) then it is just wait for a new motor and sprocket and it will be done. Also looking into rewinding a motor, finish them in wye with more turns and the reduction can be considerably smaller, albeit at the cost of a little power.

For price, research goes a long way. Spend a little more and get what goes straight onto your bought parts instead of modify them, belts can be very finicky compared to chain, so design it with care. Also, get lipo straight up. The little things go a long way, I have spent $3000 over my builds, actual parts on my current one are under $1000 easily, more like $800 or less.

Superkids.com, placed an order, checked it a few days later, and it had been rejected, no explanation and they didn't even bother to tell me.

Edit on the superkids: Tried again and asked specifically for shipping to aus, they replied that the post office was rubbish so they cannot ship usps, only ups for 80 bucks...
Last edited by bandaro on Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:17 pm

bandaro wrote:I would suggest an rc, they may be a little more noisy, but you can get 3kw easily from a 800g motor, the main problem I have with them is fitting a multi stage reduction to the cranks so they are not spinning at 500 rpm. Looking at the bldc motors, one was 8.8kg and only managed 800 watts, so for me personally that is far too heavy, the whole unit including batteries is that weight, and manages 3kw...

Similar problem with hubbies, they are heavier than a well designed reduction system, and for me weight is more of an issue than noise. I am currently several versions into a brushless bb drive, will cut the gearbox out wednesday (already have an mdf one so it will fit) then it is just wait for a new motor and sprocket and it will be done. Also looking into rewinding a motor, finish them in wye with more turns and the reduction can be considerably smaller, albeit at the cost of a little power.

For price, research goes a long way. Spend a little more and get what goes straight onto your bought parts instead of modify them, belts can be very finicky compared to chain, so design it with care. Also, get lipo straight up. The little things go a long way, I have spent $3000 over my builds, actual parts on my current one are under $1000 easily, more like $800 or less.

Superkids.com, placed an order, checked it a few days later, and it had been rejected, no explanation and they didn't even bother to tell me. Don't bother.


hehe, on lipo already with a hub. hence why im looking to move the wieght from the rear to the frame...

yea the 8.8kg 800w motor is way to heavy for its output, even if its underrated. its a shame they dont have a smaller version of their 3-7kw motor, at 20cm diamiter and 11kg it really is to big, if it had been ~15cm and 2-5kw I'd be all over it.

I did recieve an email back from superkids, but all it said is 'were out of stock, sorry'. I had also asked if / when they were getting stock, and a few other questions, none of witch were answered. shame, their motors were high on my list.

so really its down to a hub, witch will limit my max power, but have the benifit of being quiet and only needing a 1 stage reduction (direct to the BB), or a 80-80 / 80-100, witch would mean more power, more reduction, and more noise, all in a smaller package. Might end up buying a 80-80 and a 80100 and rewinding one while using the other.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby flyinmonkie » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:16 am

At least you heard something back. I still have not after 3 emails. Good luck with your choice. I might try emailing BMC directly to see if they have another retailer for them, or if they are putting any stock out soon.

I am really starting to lean towards a 1200w cyclone. I have heard good things about the motors themselves. It is just everything else that is junk. They are also noisier due to the gear box. It would be nice if you could get the motor with a smooth shaft (unsplined) an no gear box. I already have a reduction drive.

Clay
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:04 am

flyinmonkie wrote:At least you heard something back. I still have not after 3 emails. Good luck with your choice. I might try emailing BMC directly to see if they have another retailer for them, or if they are putting any stock out soon.

I am really starting to lean towards a 1200w cyclone. I have heard good things about the motors themselves. It is just everything else that is junk. They are also noisier due to the gear box. It would be nice if you could get the motor with a smooth shaft (unsplined) an no gear box. I already have a reduction drive.

Clay


yea I emailed their 'sales@' email... let me know if you find another retailer... I thought about a cyclone, but for me im doubting the power will be enough, so at this stage im leaning towards a 8085 + a 80100, with the intention of rewinding the 8085 at some point, for the 'final' build, and using the 80100 to get the rest of the parts/build up and running and attempting a re termination....

the reduction drive here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34146#p495887 is quite inspiring. keeps it low and compact. rewireing for star seems to be a good project too for a budding Elec. engineer before I take on a full rewind.

Im also thinking of getting and then modding a 12fet from lyen to run at ~50v, 80+A. Not keen on the CC's, given that ive heard they dont like partial throttle, not a good thing for trail/dh riding.

is 50v/80a enough :?:
I know AJ, you said these motors are not great at less than 66v or so on sensored, but im looking to equal my ht at 95v/45a - just with the flexibility of gears and the reduction in weight... not shoot for mega power/speed. yet... :twisted:

also aj if your reading this, how does your setup handle partial throttle? and does the CA allow fairly fine throttle response?

Am I right in thinking that the FETs in a controller are responsible for the majority of the heat generation? Im planning on having the controller inside the frame (think a long square box for the lower downtube), but at that power level its going to need some decent ventilation, and probably some active cooling, like a good size radial fan. Just want to know what to focus the most air movement around...
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby recumpence » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:46 am

That reduction looks good. However, it will be anything but quiet. Gear drives (straight gears) are inherantly noisey and exposed gears wear quickly. I do not mean to criticize, I love the effort and the design. However, I would go with a belt for the primary stage.

The issue with CC controllers is not partial throttle, it is high load with very low throttle. The FETs are overloaded if you pull high loads with low throttle. That is true with most controllers, however. But, with the tiny FETs in the RC controllers, that is more problematic than the huge controllers. :)

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