Re: avanti D8085 - maybe to be renamed D8-93??

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.

Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:03 am

recumpence wrote:That reduction looks good. However, it will be anything but quiet. Gear drives (straight gears) are inherantly noisey and exposed gears wear quickly. I do not mean to criticize, I love the effort and the design. However, I would go with a belt for the primary stage.

The issue with CC controllers is not partial throttle, it is high load with very low throttle. The FETs are overloaded if you pull high loads with low throttle. That is true with most controllers, however. But, with the tiny FETs in the RC controllers, that is more problematic than the huge controllers. :)

Matt


thanks for clearing it up matt, looks like ill have to go with a ebike controller - I'd think it'd be rare for me to ever have high load at low throttle (would trying to start up a steep hill with 25% of WOT be a good example?) but blowing $300 of kit isn't something I can easily afford. a less-likely-to-blow-than-cc-controller for $150 odd is far better in that regard. is it hard to replace fets in the CC controllers?

On a side note, does this mean they'd be ok if you slammed the trottle in the same situation that partial throttle would kill it? I know it'd probably leave you on your ass but im curious...

is there a reason not to go with helical gears (arnt they quieter)? do they require a finer degree of allignment/wear faster? or are they simply muchmore expensive?

sorry for the mess of questions...

edit
just answered the last of those questions with good ol' google, looks like its the 'thrust loads' that need to be delt with... perhaps using two facing opposite ways? does that make it notably more complex to build?
Last edited by sn0wchyld on Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby AussieJester » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:07 am

sn0wchyld wrote: is it hard to replace fets in the CC controllers?


For you, not possible, period...for 130 bucks you can send them back for "repair"
but what you actually get is a refurbished/new replacement controller in its place ;-)

sn0wchyld wrote:On a side note, does this mean they'd be ok if you slammed the trottle in the same situation that partial throttle would kill it? I know it'd probably leave you on your ass but im curious...


You would 100% end up on your ass LoL

KiM
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:18 am

AussieJester wrote:
sn0wchyld wrote: is it hard to replace fets in the CC controllers?


For you, not possible, period...for 130 bucks you can send them back for "repair"
but what you actually get is a refurbished/new replacement controller in its place ;-)

sn0wchyld wrote:On a side note, does this mean they'd be ok if you slammed the trottle in the same situation that partial throttle would kill it? I know it'd probably leave you on your ass but im curious...


You would 100% end up on your ass LoL

KiM


dammit mate im trying to make a decision here! quit making it harder!! :lol: hehe. how many times can you turn the $130 trick? do CC care much that its being used for ebike applications? I was trying to eliminate them as an option, but they do sound pretty damn good, particually paired with a RC CA.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby AussieJester » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:37 am

sn0wchyld wrote:how many times can you turn the $130 trick? do CC care much that its being used for ebike applications?


Its paid warranty return, so as many times as you like i guess...and nope, they don't care what its used for when its paid warranty...I LOVE the Cycle Analyst and CC-HV160 combo the throttle is better than any servo tester setup i have used, by a large margin.

KiM
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby gwhy! » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:49 am

Im gonna pipe in :P , Get a 3.5kw outrunner and a modded 12fet from Lynen and your sorted for upto around 4kw, and with the money you save get more batterys :mrgreen:
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:00 pm

gwhy! wrote:Im gonna pipe in :P , Get a 3.5kw outrunner and a modded 12fet from Lynen and your sorted for upto around 4kw, and with the money you save get more batterys :mrgreen:


do you mean something like this?
http://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224349
or
https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224161 :?:

and yea, im thinking ill get a 12fet to start and a CC in the future. the warrenty option is pretty damn good, but I could do with a spare 12fet for my norko/ht bike anyhow, and I want to try my hand at modding one too.

hows your own controller coming allong by the way?

and i think in sorted for batteries for a while yet :P got about 2.2kwh worth, and only using 1kwh...
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby gwhy! » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:28 pm

sn0wchyld wrote:
gwhy! wrote:Im gonna pipe in :P , Get a 3.5kw outrunner and a modded 12fet from Lynen and your sorted for upto around 4kw, and with the money you save get more batterys :mrgreen:


do you mean something like this?
http://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224349
or
https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224161 :?:

and yea, im thinking ill get a 12fet to start and a CC in the future. the warrenty option is pretty damn good, but I could do with a spare 12fet for my norko/ht bike anyhow, and I want to try my hand at modding one too.

hows your own controller coming allong by the way?

and i think in sorted for batteries for a while yet :P got about 2.2kwh worth, and only using 1kwh...


I have used the turnigy 3250w motors with good success but now these are no longer available this looks like a good alternative . My controller is still work in progress but the real hang up is having the time, I have had 2 major projects on the go but they are now coming to a end so I will have more time to spend on the controller ( to use with the 2 major projects :wink: )
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:25 pm

ok, so im 90% on getting a couple of turnigy motors...

https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224352&Location=HK
and
https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224161&Location=HK
http://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224349
is there any difference between the 2nd two to justify the price hike?


smaller one will be for initial use while I re terminate the other in delta (new kv is old * sqrt3 right?) so new kv should be around 100ish, plus be a bit kinder on the controller than the stock 170kv...

ive also found these gearboxes...

http://www.anaheimautomation.com/products/gearbox/planetary-gearbox.php?tID=109&pt=t&cID=30

Image

specifically the GBPH-090x-NS - 10:1 reduction. with a further ~3 to 1 to the front BB for a total of 30:1, or 133rpm at the crank, with a 40tooth bb - 30t rear this should yeild a top speed in low gear of around 24km/h in a 2.2m circumference wheel... and around 70km/h with a 11t rear (ignoring wind resistance etc)... am I right or is my math off somewhere :?:

the max rpm imput looks like the major drawback of these gearboxes - 4000 max. so with a 50v system that means max kv of aprox 100kv, allowing for 80% loaded speed + some Vdrop should come in just under this. anyone else had dealings with these guys/boxes before? they seem quite good + strong otherwise (~140nm output torque rated, 65db noise). a bit long at 170mm but I think I can deal with that.



Still in two minds on controllers. the CC is very tempting, just pushes the budget a bit...

the other option is still a lyen 12fet, using the 3077 FETS, since this wont be going over 70V. its about half the price of the cc, and should handle the low speed/high load situations better sholdn't it :?: (trail riding/steep hills)
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby gwhy! » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:22 am

sn0wchyld wrote:ok, so im 90% on getting a couple of turnigy motors...

https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224352&Location=HK
and
https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224161&Location=HK
http://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224349
is there any difference between the 2nd two to justify the price hike?


smaller one will be for initial use while I re terminate the other in delta (new kv is old * sqrt3 right?) so new kv should be around 100ish, plus be a bit kinder on the controller than the stock 170kv...

ive also found these gearboxes...

http://www.anaheimautomation.com/products/gearbox/planetary-gearbox.php?tID=109&pt=t&cID=30

Image

specifically the GBPH-090x-NS - 10:1 reduction. with a further ~3 to 1 to the front BB for a total of 30:1, or 133rpm at the crank, with a 40tooth bb - 30t rear this should yeild a top speed in low gear of around 24km/h in a 2.2m circumference wheel... and around 70km/h with a 11t rear (ignoring wind resistance etc)... am I right or is my math off somewhere :?:

the max rpm imput looks like the major drawback of these gearboxes - 4000 max. so with a 50v system that means max kv of aprox 100kv, allowing for 80% loaded speed + some Vdrop should come in just under this. anyone else had dealings with these guys/boxes before? they seem quite good + strong otherwise (~140nm output torque rated, 65db noise). a bit long at 170mm but I think I can deal with that.



Still in two minds on controllers. the CC is very tempting, just pushes the budget a bit...

the other option is still a lyen 12fet, using the 3077 FETS, since this wont be going over 70V. its about half the price of the cc, and should handle the low speed/high load situations better sholdn't it :?: (trail riding/steep hills)


I have just ordered one of the cheaper of the 2 smaller motors myself, no I cant see any difference to justify the increased price.
I have used a modded 6fet using 3077 fets with these smaller motors with good success but I have recently went to a 12fet with 3077 fets just to give more head room.
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby Powdersummit » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:53 am

Those planetary gearboxes look nice. I've been looking for some and prices can be painful. Those seem pretty reasonable. I have found a few that are cheaper in a nema 34 flange mounting in that 90mm size.

http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCGEARBOX.html

The specs are a little lower but unless you are dumping a ton of amps to the motor it should hold up just fine.

Back to your find, you might be able to go with the 60 series gearboxes in a 2 stage if you arn't going to be running a super high amperage. They are rated for a 6000 rpm input but have a rated output of 35 ft-lbs and a max of 70 ft-lbs. You'd have to figure you kt for the motor and find out how many amps you could push to reach the rated output. It may be boarderline but it would save some weight and some money.
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:56 am

Powdersummit wrote:Those planetary gearboxes look nice. I've been looking for some and prices can be painful. Those seem pretty reasonable. I have found a few that are cheaper in a nema 34 flange mounting in that 90mm size.

http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCGEARBOX.html

The specs are a little lower but unless you are dumping a ton of amps to the motor it should hold up just fine.

Back to your find, you might be able to go with the 60 series gearboxes in a 2 stage if you arn't going to be running a super high amperage. They are rated for a 6000 rpm input but have a rated output of 35 ft-lbs and a max of 70 ft-lbs. You'd have to figure you kt for the motor and find out how many amps you could push to reach the rated output. It may be boarderline but it would save some weight and some money.


yea I saw those, i think I'd rather overbuild it though, rather than try and limit the amps to have a smaller gearbox, given the fact I want headroom to run stupid power if the mood takes me. It'd probably work well on the smaller turnigy motors, but the big 80-80 and 80100's are capable of 9nm peak, after a 10:1 reduction thats 90nm, more than double the rated for the smaller gearboxes. its a shame there isnt anything in the middle. it goes form ~40nm to 140nm! I found these guys after reading about the nugarts (not sure on spelling) here on ES, and going week at the knees at the price (over 1k)!!

gwhy! wrote:........
I have just ordered one of the cheaper of the 2 smaller motors myself, no I cant see any difference to justify the increased price.
I have used a modded 6fet using 3077 fets with these smaller motors with good success but I have recently went to a 12fet with 3077 fets just to give more head room.


how many amps was the 6fet managing? how much do you recon youll get out of the 12? I only ask 'cause you seem to have a bit of exp. with ebike controllers and pushing their limits!
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby gwhy! » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:01 pm

sn0wchyld wrote:
how many amps was the 6fet managing? how much do you recon youll get out of the 12? I only ask 'cause you seem to have a bit of exp. with ebike controllers and pushing their limits!


with the smaller motors I have been pushing around 3.5kw (75A limit) through the modded 6fet without any problems the 12fet is set for the same but do actually get warmer than the 6fet but I guestimate that the 12fet will do 5-6kw (120A'ish ) as long as it do not get to hot.
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:29 pm

gwhy! wrote:
sn0wchyld wrote:
how many amps was the 6fet managing? how much do you recon youll get out of the 12? I only ask 'cause you seem to have a bit of exp. with ebike controllers and pushing their limits!


with the smaller motors I have been pushing around 3.5kw (75A limit) through the modded 6fet without any problems the 12fet is set for the same but do actually get warmer than the 6fet but I guestimate that the 12fet will do 5-6kw (120A'ish ) as long as it do not get to hot.


how'd you find fitting halls in these motors? is it a fairly simple process? im still seesawing between the CC and a 12fet.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby gwhy! » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:04 pm

The halls have to be fitted externally ( i dont know anyone who has put them inside the motor ) this is a pretty easy thing to do and there is a thread on here that give a few ways of doing it. I have another thread running viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33916 about a cheap 12fet controller that I bought for something to experiment with and I found that it will run these motors sensorless so this may be a good option for you as it could be upgraded for the power but they do look like if they have a max rpm limit when used in sensorless mode but when you get the halls sorted this will enable it to run faster.
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:19 am

the 6fet your using, is it a sensor-less one from lyen? he has some sensor-less ones, but im not sure if they'll like working with these motors... be great if they did though, 99 bucks for a 3kw controller would be a great starting point I think...

gwhy! wrote:...................

I have just ordered one of the cheaper of the 2 smaller motors myself, no I cant see any difference to justify the increased price.
I have used a modded 6fet using 3077 fets with these smaller motors with good success but I have recently went to a 12fet with 3077 fets just to give more head room.





so assuming the sensorless 6fet will work well enough to start with, the shopping list will be as follows...

lyen 6fet sensorless 3077 controller, likely with some forced cooling to push it to 3kw.

1 of each of these
https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224161&Location=HK
https://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224352&Location=HK
Ill get the 130kv version if it comes into stock by the time I order.

RCCA, since i'll probably end up using a CC160 when I switch to the larger motor...

10s lipo 15-20 ah, using some of my first 5s packs I bought 9 months ago when I ran 20s on my HT35.

a 10:1 reduction drive from AA. lol. good name...
http://www.anaheimautomation.com/products/gearbox/planetary-gearbox.php?tID=109&pt=t&cID=30

a slipper clutch and 1:1 (1:1/2 if he can do it) pully from recumpance. I wish I could buy more of him to thank him for his time (via pm) but at this stage a CC is a bit much if the 6 fet can manage to start with...

frewheeling BB crank ~35t from sickbikeparts - anyone care to make a reccomenation in this area :?:
-also a 11t or similar free-wheel for the box-bb

mounting hardware for 'box, motor controller and bats - locally sourced and fabricated by yours truly, with many thanks to uni for letting me use their equipment and expertise.

anything im missing :?: let me know, even if it seems obvious as this is my first RC build and im bound to be forgetting something...
also, do people think 10g wire and 4mm bullets will handle 80-100a peaks? or should I upgrade to 6mm/8g? if i ride this anything like my current bike the cont. amps will be ~25A.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby AussieJester » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:38 am

gwhy! wrote:
sn0wchyld wrote:
I guestimate that the 12fet will do 5-6kw (120A'ish ) as long as it do not get to hot.


I dunno GWhy :( i popped my 3077Fet equpped 12fet Infineon
several times at these power levels...this was running 50v setup however.
Seems running higher voltage slightly lower current they handle it.

KiM
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby gwhy! » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:40 am

AussieJester wrote:
gwhy! wrote:
sn0wchyld wrote:
I guestimate that the 12fet will do 5-6kw (120A'ish ) as long as it do not get to hot.


I dunno GWhy :( i popped my 3077Fet equpped 12fet Infineon
several times at these power levels...this was running 50v setup however.
Seems running higher voltage slightly lower current they handle it.

KiM


Hi KiM,
I am talking about the smaller motors, I know the large motors do have a problem ( but I still as yet not played with the larger motors with these controllers ) I did have a 12fet running at 80A with a large unmoddified motor ( on my scoot conversion) and this was no problems at all. All my setups are run on 50v.

sn0wchyld wrote:the 6fet your using, is it a sensor-less one from lyen? he has some sensor-less ones, but im not sure if they'll like working with these motors... be great if they did though, 99 bucks for a 3kw controller would be a great starting point I think...


I am using a sensored controller and have external halls fitted to the motor, I think the sensorless controllers from lyen may have a rpm limit ( there is a thread somewhere that goes into this ).
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby sn0wchyld » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:42 am

just a friendly bump to see if I can get any more advice, specifically to the questions/parts list in my previous post http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&start=30#p504975 before I start placing orders early this week. Ive got the better part of 2 full months off before uni starts up again, and Ive got the (probably overly ambitious) goal of getting this bike running before then! cheers all.

sc







edit
parts on the list so far from sickbikeparts
1x http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=62&osCsid=8v9ofrjqljplk0fnoen57fmic5 for motor side
1x http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=34&osCsid=8v9ofrjqljplk0fnoen57fmic5 for pedal side
2x http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=89&osCsid=8v9ofrjqljplk0fnoen57fmic5 self explanatory
2x http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=38&osCsid=8v9ofrjqljplk0fnoen57fmic5 self explanatory
1x http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=37&osCsid=8v9ofrjqljplk0fnoen57fmic5 cause I like wearing genes.
My builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29373
Norko Aline Park DH - Clyte HT3525 - 24s lipo
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p534823
'02ish Avanti D8 - 8085 170kv - 5s 40ah lipo - ple80 recution
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43143
RC Electric mountainboard
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57489
RC longboard with my own CNC routered parts!
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sn0wchyld
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby gwhy! » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:23 am

sn0wchyld wrote:just a friendly bump to see if I can get any more advice, specifically to the questions/parts list in my previous post http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&start=30#p504975 before I start placing orders early this week. Ive got the better part of 2 full months off before uni starts up again, and Ive got the (probably overly ambitious) goal of getting this bike running before then! cheers all.

sc







edit
parts on the list so far from sickbikeparts
1x http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=62&osCsid=8v9ofrjqljplk0fnoen57fmic5 for motor side
1x http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=34&osCsid=8v9ofrjqljplk0fnoen57fmic5 for pedal side
2x http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=89&osCsid=8v9ofrjqljplk0fnoen57fmic5 self explanatory
2x http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=38&osCsid=8v9ofrjqljplk0fnoen57fmic5 self explanatory
1x http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=37&osCsid=8v9ofrjqljplk0fnoen57fmic5 cause I like wearing genes.


yes its all good so far :D
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby thepronghorn » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:35 pm

I don't think you want a lyen sensorless controller. It looks like they will only go to about 2200 rpm on turnigy/leaderhobby motors with 14 poles (as can be seen below the red 'quality available list' in his first post in the thread below).
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19587&hilit=lyen+6+fet+sensorless

Lyen does have 6fet sensored controllers that will go much faster, but they do require hall sensors or burtie's optical sensors.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18744&hilit=lyen+6x4110+fet+mini+monster

I believe the sensorless that gwhy! was talking about are from here:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/VirtualVillage ... =241440152
as can be seen in his thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33916

Other options could be the controllers from bobhangxu as explored on this blog here:
http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?p=1688
or the controllers from digital2brother
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-350W-brushl ... 629wt_1037)
explored in this thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29106&hilit=digital2brother

In addition, you might also want to take a look at the P80 gearboxes made by banebots
http://banebots.com/c/PLANETARY
They claim up to 85 ft-lbs output and are commonly run up to and exceeding 5K rpm's. They are also much cheaper than the Anaheim Automation gearboxes but probably rated for less continuous use. I would not say they are of better quality, but they sure are not low quality at all. Steel gears everywhere and big thick pins/bearings meant to move 120lb FIRST robots. The smaller but related P60 series is commonly used in 12lb combat robots capable of much higher shock loading than a bike will see, so they are definitely robust. You would need a custom pinion or an adapter to turn your 10mm shaft into a 1/2" keyed shaft.
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby Powdersummit » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:51 pm

ThePronghorn, nice Find on the BaneBots Planetary Gearbox. I didn't think I could find that much reduction for that kind of price. Awsome!!!

Carl
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby AussieJester » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:31 pm

Timma tried the bane bot reduction boxes, didnt last too long i'm afraid...

KiM
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby bandaro » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:55 pm

looking good dude, to get it built over the holidays will mean you can't make any changes, as shipping in the new parts will take you over time...

Couple of things though, firstly regarding the motor, were you going to go the 6374-170 or the 80100-130? I am pretty sure from what I've heard that the 80100 will be too powerfull for the gear freewheel cluster, when it is in higher gears it will have to much tourque pulling it around, and break the freewheel mechanism, assuming the 6kw does not. So the 6374 would be a better solution, the one you linked from leader I can confirm has the same dimensions to the hobbyking one, and bolt mounting partern if that is any help.

As for the reduction box, I have not found one cheap enough with a good enough review to bother trying, so I will be interested to hear how it goes.

I have designed a couple of very similar build (basically the same everything) and a major problem for my bike, being a dj with a small triangle, is fitting it all in. From my chain gearbox research Ihave done for my own build, I found the #25 chain to be much better than the bike chain, a 55t sprocket for 25 chainis about the same size as a 28t bike chain sprocket, so you can get the reduction in a much more compact form, witht he chain effectively curving less, reducing noise. Another problem I had was the shape of the frame meant the bb sprockets would sit too far out to align to the rear cluster properly unless I used a 55/28 size sprocket. Obviously the 25 chain gave me more reduction, so I could do it in 3 stages instead of 4, making it quieter, more compact and more efficient.

I would love to take a squizz at your designs if I could, see how you have done it and if there are any problems I can see. If you want to pm me them/upload them that would be awesome.


So lastly, being both in OZ, if you are getting any parts from a seller that has a 13t sprocket and a 15t freewheeling sprocket in stock, I would be very interested in hijacking your order, as everywhere I found either doesn't have them or wont send just those 2 items here, would be happy to pay prior to ordering if you need. After I get those 2 gears, I am finished with my latest version and can begin testing, the gearbox and axles are already made.

What degree are you doing at uni?
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby Powdersummit » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:51 am

AJ, I think I found the thread where Timma tried the Bane Bot reduction. It seems like a lot of his text is missing. From what I can gather he was running a fair amount of power through the gearbox and possibly using a HV160 which could tear darn near anything apart. To keep on topic I would say that for Snowchyld's build the bane bot reduction may not be tough enough. My best guess if you were to limit the amps it could hold up which isn't what he is looking for. Looking at the website there seems to be a lot of replacement parts. Not so much true with most of the manufactures or least at a reasonable cost. Rebuilding with higher quality bearings or machine some double row bearing mounts, torch hardening the gears, and run a high quality gear oil may work. I may have to order myself one after the first of the year, work out the numbers and see if I can come up with something.

Sorry to Hijack your thread Snowchyld. I would just like to see a cheaper quality planetary gear box for the ebike group that can hold up to 3kw+ hits of power. I can't wait to see how your project will turn out. You've been putting a lot of time and research into your build, should be top notch.

Carl
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Re: So I want to start an RC... er, 'mid drive' build...

Postby AussieJester » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:34 am

Powdersummit wrote:AJ, I think I found the thread where Timma tried the Bane Bot reduction. It seems like a lot of his text is missing. From what I can gather he was running a fair amount of power through the gearbox and possibly using a HV160 which could tear darn near anything apart.


Negative on the HV160 he was using a little Astro 3215 IIRC...the missing etxt
is a result of the forum take over sometime back alot of threads were deleted in protest and some still not restored
I can confirm with Paul if you like. i speak to him on the phone few times a week and see him most weekends...

KiM
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