Aprilia Enjoy

[gtadmin]

Tony, I use the same charger as Sam (I just bought 2 is all) and I mainly "bulk" charge but still plug the balance lead in. I last balance charged on the 21st Sep and since then, the worse deltaV is 19mV and the best is 6mV

Just wondering why you need the third battery? You only have a small round trip don't you?

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day GT,

I now work from home so don't do that ride anymore.However I live just near a 14 klm cycleway (at the bottom of the big hill) and would like to do the return trip along it a few times a week.I would also like to have the capacity to ride even further on occasions and not have to worry about getting home.
How many klm's would I be looking at if I get the 3 batteries presuming I ride at an average speed on average landscape? Just a ball park figure of course.


Cheers,
Tony.

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Sam,

You are right mate,the pic does have a"mugshot" look about it.I will get a pic of me soon and then you will really know what a mugshot looks like.LOL.

Tony.

[Hillhater]

.I haven't understood the "power supply'" side of things.Can you explain that.Do I need to get a power supply other than the good old 240v?.

Yes .... If you read the specs of the HK chargers, you will find that MOST of them need a 11-18v DC input power, ( because they were intended for the RC guys flying their model planes in a fiels and recharging from a car battery !).
That is fine for the smaller AH packs, but recharging a 36v, 10 -15Ahr pack will need more than a car battery !
Most of us use a 240AC to 12v DC power supply as sam suggested, but there are other options. HK also has suitable PSU's.

[Samd]

I brought a 100Ah 12v SLA battery for $220 and a 40W solar panel recently for $100, with a 20 dollar charge controller. Hopefully I won;t need the power supply much in summer...

[gtadmin]

G'day GT,

I now work from home so don't do that ride anymore.However I live just near a 14 klm cycleway (at the bottom of the big hill) and would like to do the return trip along it a few times a week.I would also like to have the capacity to ride even further on occasions and not have to worry about getting home.
How many klm's would I be looking at if I get the 3 batteries presuming I ride at an average speed on average landscape? Just a ball park figure of course.


Cheers,
Tony.

Hi Tony, I have 11.6Ah capacity (2x batts) and charge to 4.10V which reduces the capacity to about 10.8Ah. I have a round trip of 15km and use up to 5.8Ah depending on weather conditions. Approx 25% I use >5Ah, approx 10% <4Ah, so about 65% is between 4 and 5Ah. Based on this, you would get about 22km (safely) in adverse conditions and up to 45km in good conditions. If you wanted to go further than 22, get the extra battery. (The less you discharge the batteries, the longer they will last)

To power my Turnigy charger I use a bank of SLA's (second hand) charged with a simple car charger.

I hope this helps!

Cheers,
GT

Edit: I had the total @105%

[tonyontopofabighill]

Thanks GT,

It all helps.I spent an hour or so reading most of the posts from you guys to try and understand more about the subject.

Cheers,
Tony.

[Samd]

At 20 kph ave with 35kph bursts I get about 20 km on a two pack battery. A pack being 25c 8s 5.8ah turnigy.

Same duty on a 3 pack unit I got 35km range on sat.

Extra packs mean more range as less volt sag.

[tonyontopofabighill]

Thanks Guys,

Last night I ordered 2 x 5800mAh 8s 25C lipos and the Tunigy Accucel 8 balance chatger from Hobby King.I also ordered the 12V DC regulated PSU off ebay.I will see how I go with the 2 lipos first and get the 3rd if needed.I will get an auto elctrician bloke I know to wire them up I think.I will let you know how I go.Costs quite a bit to have them sent from Hobby King.


Cheers,
Tony.

[Hillhater]

At 20 kph ave with 35kph bursts I get about 20 km on a two cell battery. A cell being 25c 8s 5.8ah turnigy.

Same duty on a 3 cell pack I got 35km range on sat.

Extra cells mean more range as less volt sag.

Sam, .. not meaning to be "picky" but, you are using confusing and incorrect terminology.
A "Cell" in battery terminology is a single electro-chemical unit.
What you are calling a cell is in fact a pack of 8 cells. ( the "8" refers to the number of cells in the pack.)
Each of your 8s packs has 8 "cells" inside .
Sorry, but its best to be clear on this especially if you are explaining to new members.
HH
PS, ..just a reminder that these motors also run quite happily (and a little faster), on a 10s set up.

[Samd]

I was just being lazy. Fair call. Post edited.

You should also point out that charging 10s is either bloody expensive or a pain in the arse. Ok now I am being picky.

Sam (B.Eng - Mech/Elec)

PS> Tony, don't forget to ask the auto-elec to use a fuse. It's stating the obvious but it saved my butt.
And if he can find a way to allow you to split the packs up ~monthly for balance charging without opening the box even better.

[tonyontopofabighill]

Thanks Sam,

I have written it down to tell the auto elect.I remember reading your close call when you forgot to put the fuse in.I love fuses,they are such helpful little buggers.
By the way Sam,I noticed on your blog that you have got the dark grey plastics on both your City and Racing models,at first I thought the City version was a racing version until I looked a little closer.

Cheers,
Tony.

[Hillhater]

You should also point out that charging 10s is either bloody expensive or a pain in the arse. Ok now I am being picky.

Why do you think that Sam ? ..
.. i simply bulk charge ( $40 charger) , and occasionally ( every month or so) balance using the same charger hooked up to the interconnected balance leads.
NOTE: .. actually i very rarely ( never) truely "balance charge" ..instead i simply use a cell log to monitor cell voltage (with 3 packs in parallel), and simply use the single cell (3.7v) setting on the charger at 3A to bring up the lowest cells. That is MUCH quicker than a full balance charge which is painfully slow and a waste of time !

Seasons cheer to all Aprilia riders !

[Samd]

I was poking the bear....

[tonyontopofabighill]

HI Guys,

I have got all the bits and pieces now from HK and ebay.I have followed Sams footsteps and put the 2 Lipo's (long ones) into the old battery case and that all fits into the bike ok.I have decided that I will have a go at the wiring up of the connections rather than getting an auto elect to do it.I have read all your posts a heap of times and researched youtube etc to get a better understanding of this new subject for me.
When I got the PSU today in the mail that threw me a bit as I expected I would be plugging it into a 240V wall socket and connecting it up to the Turnigy Accucel 8 that I have just bought.Can you guys tell how I wire that up please.
I am off to the auto shop tomorrow to get some wire,fuses and stuff to do the job.
I have got a few electrical devices that I am wondering if they may be of use in the charging of the lipos but need your advice.
I have a big mother of a jump starter which has the following stuff written on it....900 Amp 12V DC...17 Amp SLA Battery cold cranking rated 250amp.
I also have 2 battery chargers that are 12V DC 2.4A ..4 Amp RMS
I also have a 240V to 12 V converter ( I haven't got any more details on that right at this moment)
I also have an old 12 Volt car battery that is only showing 12.0 Volts * it is a bit old and tired.
I am not sure if any of this stuff is of any use or not.
The PSU is the one Sam recommended and it has the following written on it HTA-12-250 Imput 100-120VAC 4.5a..200-240VAC 2.0A 50/60Hz...Output 12V- 20A
I can't wait to get it finished and in the bike and on the road.
Cheers in advance.

Tony.

[Samd]

Gday Tony,
you'll need an old 240v power cord like the one here:
http://www.accesscomms.com.au/reference/powerplug.htm

You can wire the 240v cord to the three relevant pins (Active/Live, Neutral,Earth) of the PSU. If it were the below PSU it would be the three leftmost ones. If you don't know for sure - then stop and ask an electrician. 240v is dangerous!

$(KGrHqJ,!lYE4l,7pGK7BONhZi0,6w~~0_3.jpg (60.15 KiB) Viewed 315 times

You have two sets of 12v outputs on the PSU. On the above PSU for example you could choose output pins 5 and 7 for 12v DC negative/positive output respectively.

Cut the input power lead on your Accucel charger at about 9 to 12 inches in length, and wire these two cables to the 12v DC negative/positive output pins of your PSU.

New Picture.jpg (32.64 KiB) Viewed 315 times

You can use the supplied Accucel output leads with the crocodile leads to bulk charge your two turnigy packs in parallel, or uncouple them singly and balance charge them. Eventually you can use the 3 pin plug on the aprilia's battery case to charge when you feel like taking that step. The crocodile plugs are good for charging at a few amps only.
I will take a few photos of my setup tonight - it looks horrible ATM so I need a reason to clean them up and make them safe.

NOTE: - make sure all the attachments to the PSU are secure and snugly beneath the plastic cover of the PSU. Make sure there is no chance at all to touch any of the connection points with your bare hands. I have been thinking of mounting my unit snugly onto some heat proof backing board so no leads can be pulled loose and electrocute anyone. I am obliged to say that what ever you do is at your own risk!

Note also that my accucel 8 has been stopping itself automatically lately in our 40 degree summer due to the setting of the internal temp monitor in the charger. You can set this temp according to the manual. Last night I put a small 12v computer fan across the other output of the PSU - seemed to help a bit. Dropping below an amp to charge always seems ok.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... s/manual(1).pdf

[Samd]

Gday Tony, me again.

Here is a photo of my current setup. I still have the alligator clips between the PSU and Accucel as I have been experimenting with my solar charged SLA replacing the PSU. I wouldn't let my family anywhere near this in the current format, far too unsafe. It's in a corner of the shed they can't get at. The uneven lengths of wire help a bit to make sure that nothing can ever touch.

Charger.jpg

No idea why it often says image not downloaded.

(218.53 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

Hopefully the above post will make sense.

As you can see I use the alligator clips on the charger's output side, but easy to add a 3 pin plug as suggested above to suit the female one in the Aprilia's battery pack. You could cut the old plug off your old aprilia charger, or buy one from Jaycar or ebay. I intend to do this once I get it all cleaned up.

While I think of it - don't be surprised if you get a pop and a spacrk when connecting a used pack to the charger- it is normal but takes some getting used to. You can add a small bit of circuitry to prevent this if it annoys you, but I managed to just get used to it. Info online at places like these:
http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/nospark.html
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=155522



Cheers,
Sam.

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Sam,

Geez! I reckon I owe you a few beers for all your effort.I have just begun to make up the connections (albeit very slowly) I have connected the PSU (same as yours) and yes I am very careful when it comes to 240 Volts.I have gone over board to make VERY good connections onto the PSU and insulated the connections to the hilts.
I am going to use the fuse holders in the old battery and make sure that is all in place to avoid "shorting"
I will continue on tomorrow and let you know how I go.

Thanks again Sam.

Cheers,
Tony.

[tonyontopofabighill]

Hi all,

I have pretty much followed Sam's excellent instructions to modify the battery box and have got the new lipos (2 long ones0 all in the box and with a preliminary check the modified box fit into the bike and locked into place.
I then set about wiring them up in parallel (not easy when you are not adept at soldering)Anyway I managed to do that and to put a 40Amp fuse in line.I used the 5.5mm gold bullet connectors with heatsink and lots of insulation tape just to make sure.
I thought it best next to charge the new batteries.I had followed Sam's advice with the PSU and Accucel 8 charger. After setting that all up and putting the whole thing on a stand in the middle of my shed (even put an old smoke alarm just above it and the batteries into one of those fire bags)
I was a little unsure on the charging but had read the manual and watched the youtube videos and thought bugger it! the moment of truth has come.By the way Sam I am so glad you mentioned about the "spark and pop"phenomenon when connecting up to the batteries (nearly had to change my underdaks until I recalled your advice)
I got onto the lipo charge mode and hit the "start" button....Away it went for about 50 minutes.I then disconnected that battery and connected up the other one and did it again...took about the same time. I should note here that when I was charging both batteries I clicked the button on the Accucel to see what the voltage of each cell was and it kept saying zero volts! I then realised that that was probably because the balance connector wasn't plugged in.I then went to the computer and read that it is best to do a balance charge on a new battery.Is this Correct?
After charging both batteries I then connected the first battery to the balance port on the Accucel and this was the reading 4.17V,4.18V,4.18V,4.19V,4.20V,4.20V,4.20V,4.04V .When I saw that last cell count I freaked and thought that doesn't seem right.Anyway I thought I would do a balance charge and see if that brought that low cell up but it timed out after about 90 minutes.I wasn't sure what Amp to set the Accucel on so I set it to 3.0Amps.I then disconnected the battery and connected the other one up including the balance port and it read as follows 4.12V,4.13V,4.21V,4.22V,4.23V,4.23V,3.96V ! another low reading.I have now got that on the balance charge on the 3Amps
Can you tell me if I have buggered up?
Any help will be much appreciated thanks guys.
PS. I noticed HH doesn't balance charge but uses a cell log to monitor cell voltage and simply uses the single cell (3.7) setting on the charger at 3Amps to bring up the lower cells.Is this able to be done on the Accucel?

Tony.

[gtadmin]

...
I then went to the computer and read that it is best to do a balance charge on a new battery.Is this Correct?
...

Yes.

...
Can you tell me if I have buggered up?
...

No, just keep balance charging until all cells read about the same.

...
I noticed HH doesn't balance charge but uses a cell log to monitor cell voltage and simply uses the single cell (3.7) setting on the charger at 3Amps to bring up the lower cells.Is this able to be done on the Accucel?

Tony.

Yes, but you need to hook the low cell via it's balance leads to the main charge leads on the Accucel. You MUST get the polarity correct. You will need more equipment though, so just balance charge the whole pack instead.

If I were you, I would hook the batteries to the bike and go for a ride around the block once or twice to get the cells down to about 4.10V, then I would balance charge using the LiLo setting (which charges the cells to only 4.10V). You're second pack has a couple of cells greater than 4.20V which would give me the heebie jeebies

GT

[tonyontopofabighill]

Thanks GT,

I wondered if going for a ride to use up some of the charge might help,so I will do that tomorrow.What amount of charge do I put into the Accucel for the balance charge.I had it going today on 3Amps but nothing much changed and now I guess that was because the battery was already charged?

Cheers,
Tony.

[gtadmin]

Thanks GT,

I wondered if going for a ride to use up some of the charge might help,so I will do that tomorrow.What amount of charge do I put into the Accucel for the balance charge.I had it going today on 3Amps but nothing much changed and now I guess that was because the battery was already charged?

Cheers,
Tony.

It doesn't matter as the charger will adjust down as required. I usually use 5A as the setting, but as the Accucel can only output max 150W, 4.6A is about the practical limit and the charger will only pull this while the highest cell is below 4.18V (if aiming for 4.20, or 4.08V if aiming for 4.10). Note that the balance is going to take "ages", keep an eye on it (monitor your cells 5-8).

And just to be clear, go for a ride, check the cell voltages, repeat as necessary, and stop when the highest is at 4.10V (if you are going to use the Lilo setting, else 4.20V). Do not let the lowest one go below 3.50V Then balance charge even if it takes all day!

Cheers,
GT

[Samd]

Hey gang, balancing can take ages. Go into the charger settings. There are two settings that will stop a unit charging. One time based and the other I recall may be watthour based. Will look em up tomorrow.

[Samd]

Balance cable extensions. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34650

[gtadmin]

Hey gang, balancing can take ages. Go into the charger settings. There are two settings that will stop a unit charging. One time based and the other I recall may be watthour based. Will look em up tomorrow.

Hi Sam, yes I know, but I didn't want Tony to play with them until he gets familiar with charging LiPo. And after the initial balance, it shouldn't take more than the 90 mins time out unless something goes wrong (OR, he leaves the CellLogs connected which cocks up the balance)

Edit: are your Aprilias really 7 speed? Mine is only a 6 speed.

Cheers,
GT