first of all freakonomics is a very good book!, some of the views touched upon by myself in these posts are explained very thoroughly in that book and the wider perspective begins to show how messed up we have let it get. and it is by a world leading economist!! another very good book on banking corruption is the creature from jekyll island!! tells the story of the un constitutional signing of the federal reserve act. also one on the banking collapse and who caused it, by the BBC economics editor from news night Paul Mason, its called meltdown, the end of the age of greed!! he explains fully how the casino that owns this world runs!!
thanks for the healthy debate!, you too gordo, and anyone else who threw in, not meaning to leave anyone out or be rude!! it's quite refreshing to have a conversation on this subject with some people who at least have a grasp of how things work even if they are through the slightly rose tinted glasses of a right winger;) (not that im left either that is a fools game set up to fool fools in to believing in something. like paper gold and money!!) as they will always follow the system and never question it too much! after all if a system has made you wealthy why question it?...don't get me wrong i have done well enough out of capitalism so am not bitter, just hate to see the hypocrisy of it all..
I take opposition to the fact i mixed half truth or fallacy in any part of my correspondence..the only half truth was exactly that, just as the statement of facts with a double meaning, do you understand at the end of your rights read to you by a copper, is a half truth, yes he is asking if you comprehend what he is saying, but at the very same time due to legalese redefinitions he is also stating to you, do you Stand-Under, defer to my authority, at the point you agree you do understand (thinking he asked if you comprehend), you have made a contract, allowing the policeman to arrest you for a non common law crime. I'e a commercial rule break not a criminal act under the constitution!! see halve truths are actually more powerful, they are double truths depending on whether you are on the inside or not!! portrayed one way for truth and another for nefarious hidden actions. its like if i get you to make a contract for me to be your boss..but i made the contract using a secret definition of terms to trick you! like (in this statement the word Boss actually means owner!) so long as the re-terms are there in small print in even un understandable terms, then all is legal... Legal maxim, let he who be fooled be fooled...its your own fault if you don't do due diligence...and don't tell me that if you paid for and invented/established a system you wouldn't add in a few rules to make it way safer and more profitable for you to make money out of your system. pray on fools to make money from their work!!
you could possibly equate it like this, you are correct the Bank does not physically invent money permanently, but they do get to make a transaction to gain interest with no input of their own...a bank does not need to use its own money to make vast amounts for its self, its called usury for a reason, people get used.. you could from the inside use a friendly term robbing peter to pay paul, (as i love our childlike story analogies!) a banker would happily state it like this, no harm done a swap was done under promises and the bank made a little interest. but another man, not a banker, would say Peter got robbed, he may get payed back in the end (well with another promise! haha) but he did need to be robbed so the bank could make interest off his money with no investment from there selves. because making money off your own money is too risky, this is why...there was always a point peter could not get his money back, because the bank had lent out 90% of it..so until he got paid he was technically robbed....he thought his money was in the bank and the bank used its money to pay paul but they used his money instead...(what bloody happened to jill! and even jack for that matter;) by the way, banks go bust because they loan out too much money they haven't got, so the money isn't invented permanently, just long enough for the bank to make a bit of interest then Default swap it or some other trick so send it on its way before the final payout is required back....it is always the bank at the end of the chain that collapses..hence lehman bros, all the banks got together in 2008 with greenspan/ and had what was described as the worlds biggest ever game of poker...32men none of which were ever elected sat down and planned the fate of the world... and bought each others debt til one company Lehman, was basically sat with all the toxic debts, they let it collapse (while allowing the chief exec to still keep 2.5 billion) keeping most of the other companies afloat...then the taxpayer was forced to pick up the bill for the vast amounts the banking world used to get massively rich but didn't want to pay back!!... we justify this by calling it the velocity of money,
all elitist systems are run like this with a common knowledge for the serfs, the un initiated, and another more nefarious secret meaning used by the inside people in the know!!
Banking s like this, law is like this, science is and even medicine...all have a club you must join, the Bar etc, once you are in you will never complain about or even see the problems with it because your view has been jaded to respect the system that allows you privileges over the normal man, like massive get quick deals at the expense of the only people who have money, the tax payer..
my friends husband is in the serious organised crime agency, Britains FBI...she believes you should be shot if you run from the police, very right wing, but then when she speeds her car comes up as classified so the police don't even stop her...its called being hypocritical because you are used to the benefits of a system..an you are blind to the hypocrisy..it s why masonry and all other elitist societies work so well...their members are so happy with their privileges they never stop to question the morality of what they are doing!!..and if they are low level they have no idea what they are doing has a secret dark side to it. it is a hard fact to swallow...I was brought up using the term for my country, Great Britain! not the U.K, and was proudly shown in school how much of the world was red on the map and how we civillized the world...funny how murder, rape of natural resources, and oppression of the worlds people equates into civilizing the world...your right we wouldn't be where we are now without it!!!...maybe we could be somewhere better...just maybe?
in comments about Isms, (another game given to us by elites through ownership of the media and education) you are again correct that capitalism does seem to work the best in the tried and tested methods (isms),(someone used master 32nd degree mason Winston Churchills quote on that one.) compared to all other left right middle, isms, but its all a system of control to get everyone ruled under each ideology then oppose those two ideologies. its called Hegelian dialectic...order from chaos, thesis vs antithesis = synthesis.... Feudal ism- was the first set of elites to rule with the might of the sword keeping it in the family to the detriment of the world.( i know its not an ideology like im a feudalist!)., capitalism rose from good beginnings as it is based on the one true Ism, Individualism. this is where all proper human rights come from, the rights of the individual to life, freedom of mind body and spirit so long as his freedoms do not oppress or subdue the freedoms and wishes of another individual! (this can work, but involves no ruling elite!) but since the feudal elites already had a head start, the rampant corruption of the system actually becomes detrimental to the group... its all a bit like a race. (on a farm??) again comments on spreading wealth through enterprise in a cascading fashion can work! so the stronger improve the weak by the general speed of the progression. This is how things "should" work! but what actually happens is this! the better people at playing the "system" as professed by you as the answer...tend to find little empathy for the week as they are not as good as them in their eyes, so rather than assist the lower tears they find it easier and more profitable to "throw logs in the road" making it impossible for the pack to catch up! Infact what is worse is scientific research (see new scientist, secret network does rule the world) and empirical evidence (look at the world) that the elite group begin to prey on the week like wolves on sheep!! some of the wolves even wear sheep's clothing to help gide the pack! (see Fabianism and the fabian secret society)...this is surely not a good system for for the original group! (the sheep) it just breeds fat wolves!!!....this is the point we are at now. We have a group of 50 companies! 10 of which are (I shouldn't have to tell you by now) BANKS!...they own over 60% of the worlds industry and assets,(only 1400 comanies own 95%!!) yes thats 60% of the world owned by lets say each company has 20 major stock holders? 1000 men? at the most....we now have the worlds biggest company (just overtook exxon/mobil-rockerfellers) and leader of all the mid washed connected to the system and tracked permanently i-sheep...APPLE...worth $380 billion,,compared to the GDP of Greece...(a civilized, developed although nearly Bank-Rupt country) 304 Billion...
so we basically have companies with more money and power than Countries on the international politics scene...Its just gone too far, the people who had a headstart in the first place, the old feudal masters, europes nobility, were joined by the indutrialists in that revolution and others who made LOTS of money though totally Imoral, never mind Unlawful means such as people trafficking, slavery, murder for land and minerals and drug running on a massive scale....these people own everything...I promise you, 90% of all the gold, 90% of all the land! and worse 100% of you....so this is why using the system to your advantage although clever in the short run for your own sake is the worst think for the future and your kids and descendents...(famous quote by several people including einstien) you see all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing...so how can doing worse than that and joining the system to help it grow and get worse be the answer?...
onto socialism as i have not touched on that yet!...I bet people are waiting for the Eco hippy?? to say how good it is!! No, No, No, for a start we haven't ever actually seen socialism, we have seen elite groups keep all the money and power!- but it still isn't the answer (it told you it wasn't a right left issue they are all the hands of the same puppet master) socialism neglects one thing! firstly that no, everyone is not the same, so you cant try to make them...and also it is impossible to protect the rights of the Individual, (the most important thing on this planet besides Love) yay the hippy is back!;)..
i should have the right to believe i'm not the same! and if i can prove it then good on me!...this is why our capitalist choice was a good one. but what we now have is Corporatism! which is actually just fascism!...the head and founder of the Facists (italians)...in ww2 Mussolini described it as this! Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.
This is what we have now!.... who were the last people to have homeland security groups! The National-sosialist fascists that were the third reich!!
A robot utopia is a way off, but we have to be careful of eco-socialism too, (zietgeist movement, venus project) what if i dont want to live in your new super solar city, off to the camps..
in answer to the questions though. very very soon, the robots will design, maintain and advance it self! at a much faster rate than us btw! transumanists! (elitist who want to live for ever -eg walt disneys frozen head was the start..) believe we will have to merge with the technology or it will out strip us in intelligence exponentially (which is true) and humans (the wolves actually) will live forever as post human gods!!
BTW the technological singularity is coming by 2020 there will be a computer as intelligent as a human by 2040 an average PC for $1000 dollars will be more powerful than all the brains on the earth combined but that is again another story!...people will laugh but it is scientific fact due to the law of accelerating return that has existed since man made stone tools and fire and we know it today as moors law....
I think ill end here for the moment as i have digressed as usual and have been away from the thred for a while so need to catch up!
oh and DeVries! spot on mate! at least someone here is educated and unbiased/ subjective enough to understand the truth...no disrespect to anyone else...its just the truth. these are the facts of how frocked up our world is!! if you choose not to believe them its totally up to you...but beliving a lie unfortunately makes you wrong and in some bad cases part of the problem...