Honda CBR 400 Trike w/ Dual Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv

[inspiredvoltfreak]

Got a reply from John, "Attached are the performance curves from a typical motor. If you are running in the CW direction, looking at the motor shaft, then you need to adjust the timing.

What is the application? Do you run in the CW direction?


John"

Also, I got to go check and I am indeed running cw rotation! Wonder what difference adjusting timing will make?

[inspiredvoltfreak]

I figured on copying this from an i.m. I just wrote quoting myself "I understood that peukert effect was bad in lead but i thought it was about 30% capacity I would lose because of the high ah rating of the battery. I have no doubt I made some grave mistakes and little doubt it will never do the range i wanted even at 80kph. All I want now is to increase performance to 80kph if possible and possibly convert it back to 2 wheels at minimal cost and then likely sell it. I could use it for a local commuter but it would take a horrendously long time to pay off in that usage. The whole build was planned based off a spreadsheet which turns out to spit out absolute garbage when you put in absolute garbage??? Who'd have guessed? It had no contrivance to show me that my weight was way to high for 16 continuous horsepower to get me to 100kph.
As a side note: I recently rode a 250cc motorcycle with 16 HP and it weighs half as much and can barely maintain 100kph."

Just to let people know where i stand on the project.

[inspiredvoltfreak]

I adjusted he timing but have not been able to take the bike out for a real run yet. That will come tomorrow. Testing in the parking garage i felt little if any difference. For peoples reference here is the instructions from John.

1) Remove the black brush holder stamped steel Cover by unscrewing the 4 Phillips Head bolts. You may need to "tap" the cover with flat blade screw driver to get it go come off the aluminum case.

2) Once the cover is removed, you will see that the top aluminum endbell is attached to the output endbell by 4 bolts. These 4 bolts are in slots. The cover is probably rotated in the CCW direction if you look at the motor from the Brush end.

3) Mark the two aluminum case halves with a scribe or a black marker where they come together as a timing mark.

4) Loosen the 4 bolts and rotate the cover in the CW direction so that it is the same amount of rotation in the opposite direction. In other words, the middle of the slot is Neutral timing.

5) Once rotated, you can re-tighten the bolts (M10) with a open end box wrench. The torque is supposed to be 5 Nm.

6) Check that all 8 springs are still in place on the brush holder. Put the cover back on the motor.

I did as required but the whole play from full ccw to cw is only 5 degrees or so so I doubt it really did much. Thought I'd post it up anyways for those who might want to know

[inspiredvoltfreak]

Status Update: This bike is just sitting waiting now. I am keeping an eye out for a cheap deal on a new bike or parts that would fit mine to convert it back to 2 wheel. I think If i did this it would be usable up to 80kph, no real guess on range? I'm looking for a papered frame in the sub $200 range hopefully not needing much work but with a blown up or missing engine. Right when I started searching one came across craigslist for $100 but I just missed it. Still hoping for an acceptable outcome. If I can find a new frame I will start a new conversion thread and link it to the old. This may be the last update for months, or ever for that matter. Thanks to all who tried to steer me right even though I went so wrong!

[Hillhater]

you may not have ended up with the result you wanted, but you will have learned a lot and be much better prepared for your next project. We all learn from our experience's, often its the best way !
good luck with your next build.

[Gordo]

I see the value of this tread and have a suggestion for the next fellow who tries to build outside of the box. Look carefully in to the box, which is ES. As your starting point select your distance and speed. Then look here for builds that have accomplished your goals. Check the weight of the bike, your weight and your route. If you can do much better, than the many examples here on ES, I will be amazed! The laws of physics can be very hard to beat.
Mistake number one (not the case in this tread), for me, is a newbee starting with a "budget." The budget is item #10 on the smart persons list. Lay out the goal first, look for previous ebike builds that can meet this goal and then add up the costs. This is the BUDGET Any budget of a dollar less, is just pissing on the collective wisdom, that is ES. I don't think anyone, especially a first time builder, will built a $1200 ebike for a $1000, unless they find a low cost source for cells and build their own pack.
As they say in racing - how fast do you want to go, how much do you want to
spend? This basic rule still applies. Even to electrics.

[nak25]

Got them to drop the price of the motor $65 US Dollars because I found it elsewhere cheaper.
I'm going to strip the bike down this week so I can get my frame into work to cut off motor mounts and try to weld in battery supports.

Where did you find the motor cheaper at?
-i'll rather pay anything under $300 for the motor.

What type of welder are you using?
my max amp is 125 and i'm still getting used to welding
I just bought a 120v welder, I'll probably get a 220 when I turn 18yrs.old.

[Gordo]

Got them to drop the price of the motor $65 US Dollars because I found it elsewhere cheaper.
I'm going to strip the bike down this week so I can get my frame into work to cut off motor mounts and try to weld in battery supports.

Where did you find the motor cheaper at?
-i'll rather pay anything under $300 for the motor.

What type of welder are you using?
my max amp is 125 and i'm still getting used to welding
I just bought a 120v welder, I'll probably get a 220 when I turn 18yrs.old.

Nak,
The only advantage of 220V is needing smaller wire to get the same amps to the welder. With 125A you will have best results if you either replace the wire from the service to he welder or use a very heavy cable from the welder to as close to the main breaker as possible. If you have trouble welding on thicker material, you can always preheat it with a propane torch for short welds.

[inspiredvoltfreak]

I see the value of this tread and have a suggestion for the next fellow who tries to build outside of the box. Look carefully in to the box, which is ES. As your starting point select your distance and speed. Then look here for builds that have accomplished your goals. Check the weight of the bike, your weight and your route. If you can do much better, than the many examples here on ES, I will be amazed! The laws of physics can be very hard to beat.
Mistake number one (not the case in this tread), for me, is a newbee starting with a "budget." The budget is item #10 on the smart persons list. Lay out the goal first, look for previous ebike builds that can meet this goal and then add up the costs. This is the BUDGET Any budget of a dollar less, is just pissing on the collective wisdom, that is ES. I don't think anyone, especially a first time builder, will built a $1200 ebike for a $1000, unless they find a low cost source for cells and build their own pack.
As they say in racing - how fast do you want to go, how much do you want to
spend? This basic rule still applies. Even to electrics.

Have to agree with EVERYTHING he said here. I too started with a Budget and that screwed me over 10X. I went way over, probably double what i would have spent if I did it right the first time.

As to my motor purchase, I got it through the Kelly website for $65 less than their list price because the manufacturers price was $65 less. I wanted to get both from the same place thinking it would save me on shipping but they shipped separately so it made no difference.

[inspiredvoltfreak]

Just wanted to re-post my other project which is coming along nicely, this one's more for the kids.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=28022

[inspiredvoltfreak]

Just a quick Update. I finally decided to disassemble the bike. I am keeping all my electronics and will try to sell the frame as is for whatever I can get for it. My plan is then to keep an eye out for another frame and possibly try again. I will likely sell my batteries and keep an eye on the used battery pile at work and try to find some group 22's or U1's to use for next time. That way I can build a smaller lighter weight Bike but with shorter range. Then down the road perhaps I will be able to get Lithium or whatever better technology comes along in the mean time.

[inspiredvoltfreak]

Ok, had a thought coming home tonight and I think it warrants a new thread unless people shoot it down immediately. I'm definitely eager to follow the advice of people this time around and I'm not doing anything until I get some valuable input.

So here's how it stands. The delta trike is disassembled into a rolling chassis with differential, the motor and electronics, and the batteries. I have the batteries up for sale on Craigslist and I've sold 1, 5 more to go. I'm looking as well on craigslist for a buyer for the rolling chassis to use for some fun project, though I'm recommending it not be used for anything that will actually see the roads. So what's left is to do something with the motor, controller etc. I'd hate to pawn them off and in fact am not willing to do so except as an extreme last resort. I had considered another bike but am concerned that it will not help me as I won't be able to commute with it. The most I could do is use it for short trips to the store. It would take a long time to pay off under that circumstance.

So here's my new idea. Put it on my 96 Geo Metro connected direct to the crank using the existing unused Poly-V belt slot (for air conditioning I think). I would gear the max Motor RPM to match the max Engine RPM, I could then team it with some small U1 batteries (free with 50% charge from scrap pile) (I.E. I can kill them with great frequency with no ill effect) (Unless there's potential for a thermal event!) and it would serve just to smooth out the power demand on the motor for hill climbing etc. Of course the big question here is what effect would the extra drag on the engine during off times have. Would it negate any gains?

I'm far from having all the details worked out but my initial thought is that if I didn't have the motor in regenerative mode on throttle off, (or if i can tune that regeneration to be quite small) The drag would not be that significant. In addition would there not be a way to remove the alternator and just put a step down converter to keep the car battery charged up?

My thought would be to have two throttles for the DC motor, one linked to the gas pedal and made adjustable, and a separate one that i could activate manually. (Thinking of putting my motorcycle twist throttle on the hand brake handle) Now what would happen if i gave the DC motor power without pressing the gas pedal for the engine? Would it not just look to the engine computer like I'm coasting down a hill and put itself in fuel cut until I press the gas? Would really like input on this point!

I've got so much more to say, but this is a good start for the basic idea. Looking forward to feedback.

By the way, since I've got nearly everything I'd need, I could do a trial run of this outlaying only about $60 for a pulley and a belt. Is it worth a try at that price? Anyone have a link to someone that's done this? If nothing else it would give me a 20HP boost, (on a 53HP engine i might add)

[Gordo]

1. You need a small pulley on the e-motor and large pulley on the crank. 2:1, 3:1
2. You need a good belt to handle 20HP.

[inspiredvoltfreak]

1. You need a small pulley on the e-motor and large pulley on the crank. 2:1, 3:1
2. You need a good belt to handle 20HP.

1. Yes, I believe your right, the max engine rpm according to wikipedia is 5100 rpm and the DC motor 3400 rpm at 72V. Not that the engine is likely to ever see that rpm with my foot on the accelerator, but anyways if my math adds up that's about 1:1.5 ratio.

2. The diameter of pulley on my crank is fairly large as i'm pretty sure it's there for air conditioning and needed a big step down, so i would have a significant contact surface which I think would be sufficient to prevent the belt slipping. The belt is a poly-V about an inch wide, so question is how much power could it take before snapping? A quick search is telling me nothing, I suppose one could weld a chain sprocket onto the end of the crank pulley and do a chain drive instead. But that would be noisy and high maintenance.

[inspiredvoltfreak]

This looks pretty neat as well, but it's not worth it on my beat up old car.
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/crazy-aeromodded-metro-chopped-teardropped-90.html

Copied this to a new thread afterall. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=36396&p=527145#p527145 Please reply there.