EbikeE and BMC for Comfort and Range

[sk8norcal]

I was referring to memory of reading the following from the wikipedia article on recumbent bicycles:

On 7 July 1933, at a Paris velodrome, Faure rode a Velocar 45.055 km (27.996 mi) in one hour, beating an almost 20-year-old hour record held by Oscar Egg,
...
In 2003, Rob English took on and beat the UK 4-man pursuit champions VC St Raphael in a 4000 m challenge race at Reading, beating them by a margin of 4 min 55.5 s to 5 min 6.87 s - and dropping one of the St Raphael riders along the way.

Of course I don't know all the details of these, and the EbikeE isn't the same as these racing recumbents, but my expectation is only that an EbikeE is more aerodynamic than a Mountain Bike. I have read that people have ridden EbikeE's in 100 mile rides, how many folks ride mountain bikes in 100 mile rides?

4000m olympic record is like 3:55, so I am not sure about that claim.
and I think they are talking about a fully faired recumbent, which would have a big advantage and completely impractical.

The "unfaired" recumbents that have beat the record (non aero bars) use a tail box fairing and still haven't top the "aero bar" record.

and plenty of people have done centuries on mountain bikes, its not unusual at all, just not ideal,
so ur bikeE is probably more aero than a mt bike, but its like the least aero for all recumbents due to the high sitting position.


regarding the velocar record,
it was a long time ago...
notice he's pretty laid back like the low/high racer...

[Warren]

"I didn't expect there was much wheelie potential in a recumbent."

Nice wheelie at 3 minutes into video!

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36048&p=523549#p523091

[sk8norcal]

found some links here,
http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/r ... apeldoorn/
http://www.recumbents.com/wrra/WRRA_News_Update1.htm

hour record, km

upright:
Boardman 56.375 (aero bar, superman)
Sosenka 49.700 (no aero bar, no disk)

recumbent:
Bonneteau 50.529 (unfaired recumbent)
Wessels 53.019 (recumbent with tail fairing)




if i did my math right, they avg 38.07 mph/61.27 kph for 4K !!!

[Alan B]

"I didn't expect there was much wheelie potential in a recumbent."

Nice wheelie at 3 minutes into video!

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36048&p=523549#p523091

I saw that video AFTER I posted that comment. That's almost a Luke powered bent, Agni style. Amazing.

I don't think I could ride laying down like those folks. I guess you can learn most anything, but seems pretty strange.

But the real question is, how does the bikeE compare to a normal mountain bike?

AND, how much Lipo can I fit into the main beam? This could be a sleeper of an ebike with almost nothing visible. That is tempting. I would need a secondary battery for long rides, but for short stuff I can probably get at least 700 watt hours into the main beam. Maybe, I haven't looked to see what is in the way. There's some structure in there so it may not be ideal.

[sk8norcal]

But the real question is, how does the bikeE compare to a normal mountain bike?
.

I think you said ur aim is 25mph flat-speed
you can try a simple coasting downhill test...

[Alan B]

Yes, I had thought about a coasting test. Use the same GPS on both bikes.

[Warren]

Alan,

"Yes, I had thought about a coasting test. Use the same GPS on both bikes."

Load the lighter bike, so they are the same weight. Run all tires at same psi. Ride the MTB in your normal riding position, not nose on the bar.

Warren

[Alan B]

bikeE Internal Batteries?

1-3/8" by 3-1/4" by 26" approximately available inside the frame. But there are obstructions in the form of four nuts that hold the rear wheel strut, plus the cables run through there. Not sure if the nuts are captured, it appears they might be.

[padauk]

I have had my bikeE electrified for the last 2 years it's a long frame bike RX front and rear suspension 9 speed 34-12 tooth freewheel on the back. I am running a rear wheel BMC speed 800 watt motor 48v 10amp lipo. Average speed on the flats with peddling is 18 to 20 mph, up a steep hill is 12mph. The motor won't let it drop below 10mph on my steep hill. I have a fairing that I use in the cold months and take it off for the summer. With the fairing on my speed increases maybe 2 mph on the flats but I do use more battery power with the fairing off. Getting 30 miles to a charge, the motor is very quiet. What I like most is the acceleration from a stop 0 to 12 mph in a very short distance.
My controller and battery hangs below the seat on the pannier rack that was made for the bikeE. I have disc brakes to slow the bike down 1900 miles so far and everything is working flawless. The motor and all necessary parts from Ilia at http://www.ebikessf.com/
Hope this is helpful
Mark
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11024

[Alan B]

Thanks for the info, Mark!

That sounds very good. 48*10/30 = 16 watt hours per mile.

I hope I do that well!

[Alan B]

I would like to take this bike on the Mega Enduro 100 mile ride, so I'm trying to figure out how to strap 2kwh of batteries onto it.

There's not a lot of time as the ride is only a week away.

There's not a lot of room either.

A gearmotor is being laced into a 20" rim for the rear wheel.

This is temporary, I don't plan to use that much battery on this bike all the time.

[Alan B]

Added a bunch of photos to the album. Link to the album is here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/Alan.Biocc ... directlink

Here is one of the photos:

[Alan B]

Just added a few more photos of the rear forks.



Looks like the forks are riveted to the frame, not bolted.

Looks like the rear forks are alloy, and the dropouts are alloy. The axle also looks small. That may be a problem.

Edit - Correction, according to my magnet the rear forks and dropouts are magnetic.

[Alan B]

Spent some quality time with the BikeE today. Aside from getting some riding in, and reworking cables and adjusting things so it runs a little better, I also made a plan for a simple battery holder.

I don't have a drawing to share (just an ugly handCAD sketch), but basically it is a rack that sits below the seat on either side. I will haywire one together tomorrow out of wood and see if it is going to work. It has to hold about 35 pounds of batteries.

I made a mistake last week and ordered the 5S 8AH zippy batteries, so I had to re-order them. Luckily it was a small order. So if anyone needs 5S 8AH Zippys, I have three brand new ones I don't need. Drop me a PM and I'll save you a few clams.

[mr.electric]

I remember seeing a few ebikeE's with the Zap roller kit. The I beam frame worked well holding lead batteries under the frame pointing downwards. The old zap batteries came in a solid black cloth bag with velcro straps and a plastic base that strapped on with hose clamps.

[Alan B]

I've thought about putting batteries above and below the beam, perhaps in PVC gutter piping (or perhaps even inside the beam). But for 2kwh I need something a bit larger and easier due to the short time scale. So in the last few days I've made a carrier that hangs from the main beam right under the seat. It is along both sides. I have photos but they're still in camera.

[Alan B]

In this photo the rack is not quite finished, so it is not completely resting against the rear forks. The weight is carried by the main beam. The current plan is to spread the batteries out on this carrier one layer deep, wire them up, wrap them with a layer of bubble wrap, and strap them down. I'll probably wrap them with stretch wrap and some tape for extra security. Might provide some additional protection, perhaps I should cover them with another layer of cardboard or 1/4" plywood. The plywood does add some weight however.

I went for a test ride, and the battery carrier is nicely out of the way. Standing still with the feet down it is not very close to the legs, though putting a foot down while moving could bring a leg into contact with it. I have since added a small bar across the front to make it more stable. It is made with waterproof glue and 18 gauge brads pneumatically driven. Just gotta love that brad-gun. Steel straps over the top are bolted in place with T-nuts. Seems to be sturdy, if not I'll drag the flaming batteries along the road.

The motor wheel is coming along well so I will get it soon and install it.

[Rassy]

Alan, that looks nice. Last year I discovered a 1/4" plywood thats made for underlayment and has 7 plys. More expensive than the traditional 1/4" stuff, but also isn't whimpy.

[Alan B]

That is a lot of plies for 1/4 inch. This is not that fancy. The design doesn't put a lot of stress on the birch plywood, with the poplar rails taking the real loads. It is pretty light, too. But in the long run I want stealthier battery mounts so this is temporary.

[StudEbiker]

Just noticed it looks like you have chrome front forks. Those are pretty rare and are a desirable option for a Bike E. I like what you have done with the battery carrier. Have you checked the wheel base on your Bike E? 52"=standard Bike E, 56"=Ex. long. The long frames are nice to have even if you aren't too tall.

[Alan B]

Just noticed it looks like you have chrome front forks. Those are pretty rare and are a desirable option for a Bike E. I like what you have done with the battery carrier. Have you checked the wheel base on your Bike E? 52"=standard Bike E, 56"=Ex. long. The long frames are nice to have even if you aren't too tall.

Thanks for the info. I haven't measured the wheelbase. I'll have to measure it. I think it is too long for my bike rack, but haven't tried that yet. The longer frame would be better for carrying batteries. I wish it was easier to get inside the main beam. There's room in there for a modest battery pack but the riveted rear fork setup takes a lot of internal space and isn't easily removable. I'm tempted to remove the rivets and make a slide in tray that bolts the rear forks on. The tray could carry the batteries forward and controller to the rear and make a very tidy package.

Interesting about the front fork. What is different about it from the non chrome units?

I have noticed a little play in the Aheadset. I'm not sure how to adjust that. it doesn't seem to be a problem, it is only noticeable when taking the weight off the front and wiggling the handlebars forward and back.

[StudEbiker]

Most of the front forks are painted gray. Putting the batteries in the frame is something that I think everyone that thinks about doing a Bike E thinks about, but in the end I just don't think it is very practical. As you have already noted, the space is pretty small, there's rivets for the rear fork, and the cables run through the frame. It's really nice to be able to run the cables through the frame put many batteries in there and then you have to run your cables on the outside. The longer wheelbase is not just good for carrying more batteries, it is also better for weight distribution (especially if you're not too tall) and allows for a bit softer ride as the frame will flex a little more.

[Alan B]

Another bit of progress - picked up the motorized wheel. It is a BMC with 7 speed 11-30 freewheel and Schwalbe big apple from ebikessf.com. Ilia was very helpful in getting things ready in time and everything is pre-tested so we should be good to go in that department.

[Alan B]

The wheel fits. With the Big Apple 2.35 it just barely clears things. Had to remove the brakes to get it in. They will fit, but it was easier to have them out of the way. Deflating the tire should work also.

So what's the deal on the dropouts? 11mm wide?? Very shallow, too. Steel. Not terribly thick.

Probably need torque arms both sides at least. No regen on this gearmotor with freewheel. That's a bummer because the hall connector won't fit through the arm.

I'll reserve judgment until I can get better light on the project. It was late and the light isn't good where I had room to work on it.

[StudEbiker]

The wheel fits. With the Big Apple 2.35 it just barely clears things. Had to remove the brakes to get it in. They will fit, but it was easier to have them out of the way. Deflating the tire should work also.

So what's the deal on the dropouts? 11mm wide?? Very shallow, too. Steel. Not terribly thick.

Probably need torque arms both sides at least. No regen on this gearmotor with freewheel. That's a bummer because the hall connector won't fit through the arm.

I'll reserve judgment until I can get better light on the project. It was late and the light isn't good where I had room to work on it.

Yeah, deflating the tire is usually easier than taking the brakes off if there is clearance issues.

Steel doesn't need to be as thick as aluminum to have the same or better strength, so the dropouts are plenty adequate. I don't know how many watts you are planning to put through the hub, but I would think one torque arm would be okay for up to 48v. Popping the connector off the hall wires to pass through the torque arm and putting them back on is not complicated or difficult.