GT i-drive 2.0 Build

[knoxie]

Yes +1 on the hardening, I used mild steel but case hardened it using a blowtorch and oil dip, been on an X5 for 2 years running 3-4KW no problem

Here is my arm

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4539&p=67175&hilit=+x5+torque+arm+knoxie#p67175

[GCinDC]

Will Doctor Bass torque plates fit?

well, i'm using one on the drive side, but there's not material beneath the slot to make a clamping mechanism, and as you see there's plenty of wiggle in the slot:


on my 'pinching' torque arm, i was hoping the vertical force of clamping the arm to the bike would draw the rear side of the axle slot in just enough to remove the gap, and if the arm angle was more obtuse and the corner stiff enough, it would have to I'd think, albeit not with the same force of a lateral clamp.

if i just added a pinching mechanism under the slot, the axle and 'arm' would just wiggle back and forth in a radius below the single bolt, which is all there really is to mount secure to.. but the worm clamp does fix the arm firmly to the frame, and at least the axle shouldn't fall out!

alright, this is what i mean:

why_wont_u_pinch.jpg (30.01 KiB) Viewed 837 times

but i certainly screwed the pooch when i made the hole too big...

[GCinDC]

ps. thanks for tip on hardening, guys!

Yes +1 on the hardening,Here is my arm

another jewel buried deep in ES. nice.

[Skippic]

Hey Greg,

I've been thinking and this is what I came up with:

permanent torque arm.PNG (19.23 KiB) Viewed 830 times

I'm not sure how much space there is on the HS3540 between the disc and frame, but welding a permanent torque arm on the inner axle would surely solve all your ebike problems.

[GCinDC]

welding a permanent torque arm on the inner axle would surely solve all your ebike problems.

i've thought about welding a plate to the axle, but i'm not sure there's room. worth another look tho!

if it could only solve all my other problems in life too...

[Skippic]

IMHO welding CAN solve all the world's problems, we just need to think outside the box ^^

[dbaker]

I converted the Doc Bass drive side torque arm to clamping by drilling and tapping it for a 1/4 20 allen head pinch bolt for my Cromotor build. The steel is very tough. I broke 2 taps and ruined 2 drill bits. To get the pinch bolt clearance hole I had to use a carbide end mill.

A welded torque arm inside the drop out sounds good. Won't you have to remove axle wiring to do that?

[GCinDC]

well, i'll be!

look what's for sale in Vancouver:

[Doctorbass]

I converted the Doc Bass drive side torque arm to clamping by drilling and tapping it for a 1/4 20 allen head pinch bolt for my Cromotor build. The steel is very tough. I broke 2 taps and ruined 2 drill bits. To get the pinch bolt clearance hole I had to use a carbide end mill.

A welded torque arm inside the drop out sounds good. Won't you have to remove axle wiring to do that?

yes very tough.. that's to avoid them deforming under high pressure density of the axel pinch edge

You need industrial tool to avoid them to break with this QT100 metal. Simple commercial carbide drill are not up to the task. Industrial carbide drill are

[Doctorbass]

Will Doctor Bass torque plates fit?

well, i'm using one on the drive side, but there's not material beneath the slot to make a clamping mechanism, and as you see there's plenty of wiggle in the slot:


on my 'pinching' torque arm, i was hoping the vertical force of clamping the arm to the bike would draw the rear side of the axle slot in just enough to remove the gap, and if the arm angle was more obtuse and the corner stiff enough, it would have to I'd think, albeit not with the same force of a lateral clamp.

if i just added a pinching mechanism under the slot, the axle and 'arm' would just wiggle back and forth in a radius below the single bolt, which is all there really is to mount secure to.. but the worm clamp does fix the arm firmly to the frame, and at least the axle shouldn't fall out!

alright, this is what i mean:

why_wont_u_pinch.jpg

but i certainly screwed the pooch when i made the hole too big...

I see the problem you have with the axel and the torque arm.

This is really difficult to make a torque arm ONE SIZE FIT ALL axel thickness... some are as thin as 9.75mm !!! out of a normal 10.00mm and some are 10.10mm.

The actual width i use for the actual batch is the best tradeoff to accomodate most of the people.


There is a trick to solve that problem of loose between the axel and the torque arm:

each set i sale are including TWO torque arm.. and this is exactly what i planed in case of people have too small tolerance axel:

Just clock one torque arm compare to the other until the axel is squeezed between both side T-A :wink: .. ( just ensure you are able to remove the axel from the dropout as well)

I made them round to allow that.

Usually people that have good axel tolerances very close to the normal 10,0mm, must keep both torque arm perfectly parallel. But in case of too small axel you can clokc a bit one compare to the other and it work fine ( tested already by few ultimate torque arm buyers)

Doc

Doc

[dnmun]

why not jam a short piece of shim stock in the gap to make it tight?

use a feeler gauge to measure the gap and if it is a size you never use on the feeler gauge then just cut a piece off of it.

or tin can or piece of galvanized flashing stock.

[GCinDC]

hey doc,

Just clock one torque arm compare to the other until the axel is squeezed between both side T-A

i do that when i tighten the torque arms: i make both nuts hand-tight, then clamp one torque arm one way, and the other, the other way.

use a feeler gauge to measure the gap and if it is a size you never use on the feeler gauge then just cut a piece off of it.

i suggested this same thing to myself a while back, but thought i had it fixed by then! i used to help my dad fix his bug, and we were always needing the 'feeler gauge' for the plugs. ah, fond memories...

justin's torque arm is en route. ought to be a good test for the Sphere, no?

[amberwolf]

or tin can or piece of galvanized flashing stock.

I haven't tried tin can yet, but don't use aluminum can (like soda cans) for it; the aluminum apparently squishes and cracks apart. I did this on DayGlo Avenger for the small gaps in a wrench torque arm, and after beginning to feel a wiggle I checked and found the can shim was "crumbled"; some pieces were actually missing from it. I assume the wrench spread a little and hten the axle beat the aluminum to death on the wrench flats with each acceleration, but I don't really know.

I thought I had this posted up in the DGA thread, but I cannot find the post. I can't remember now if this was when I had the 9C on there, or later when I put the Fusin back on at 48V, when I was having such problems with loosening torque arms and nuts because of the greater torque it had when overvolted.

[GCinDC]

torque arm is a moot point for the moment. the hs3540 has been grounded:

IMG_20120209_071401.jpg (80.72 KiB) Viewed 633 times

last night, near the top of the long hill (thankfully), i heard grinding and lost power.

I was late, and it was raining, and no problems were obvious, so pedaled it home, and investigated later that night:

initial diagnostics:
- i first suspected toasted fets in the controller, but heard same noises after hooking up my identical spare controller
- i then hooked up my old 9x7 9C w/ recently replaced spokes, and Zing!

so i spent 45 min swapping the motors. w/ 9C, i always hate removing hall connector to slide on new torque arms, nuts, etc, so i was happy that my new disk side torque arm has that thin slot where i can slide the motor wires though. and while we know it's not clamping, it'll at least keep it from dropping out.

minor downside: no rear brake. i guess i can try to fit Vbrakes again, cause existing 9C cover plate screw holes are stripped..

still, i'd rather ride (slowly) to work than take the metro.

i didn't dare pop off the hs3540 side cover to examine it until i research how to avoid damaging the wires there. tips, anyone? or non-issue? bets on the problem? halls? short? smoked?

the next time this motor spins, it might be in a fat 24" wheel.

and now, just for entertainment: the vimeo video, MAN LIVING ON A BIKE

[GCinDC]

also, considering my current legal woes (not related to ebiking), i'm seriously thinking about getting a motorcycle license and insurance, god forbid anything should happen to me or someone else.

after reading my home/auto insurance policies, i have no coverage whatsoever on a motorcyle-type vehicle, and DC's laws (nevermind enforcement issues), are more and more apparent: as quote on home page: Did You Know? There are registration requirements for mopeds, scooters and motorcycles...Read More

and oh, yeah, you can bet i'd have cameras rolling at the inspection station...

[dbaker]

How many miles do you figure you got out of the Crystalyte? Did you test for Hall failure?

Yesterday was a wet ride home. I was really careful this morning noticing some ice crystals glinting back at me on the paved trail

If you go to motorcycle registration you won't be allowed on sidewalks or bike lanes

[GCinDC]

How many miles do you figure you got out of the Crystalyte? Did you test for Hall failure?

hmm, installed on 11/14, so almost 14 wks... so 14wks x 5 days/wk = 70 days x 12 miles/day = 840 mi? But it's all my fault for sucking 3kw (45A x 74V) up the hill for several minutes continously. i should have known better!

Yesterday was a wet ride home. I was really careful this morning noticing some ice crystals glinting back at me on the paved trail

i need to finish watching justin's water ingress vid, but even in rain, my motor was dry, anything drops touching it turning to steam immediately... ice or salt? at the mere mention of snow, DC coats the city in salt. disgusting.

If you go to motorcycle registration you won't be allowed on sidewalks or bike lanes

i'm not even concerned about getting arrested, just covered by insurance!

and thus we enter middle age?

[grindz145]

You need a backup sensorless man, and you need to ventillate that bad boy! I can fix the halls for you if you want man.

[GCinDC]

You need a backup sensorless man, and you need to ventillate that bad boy! I can fix the halls for you if you want man.

yeah, a sensorless might help, if it's the halls. thanks for offer. i have a couple handy, and i don't want to know what shipping it would cost.

where are we on salt and vented motors? i seem to recall the consensus was it would be more harm than good. now liquid cooling is intersting...

[grindz145]

If you watch Justins vid, his best solution right now is just to drill holes and properly ventillate.

I would offer an intermediate step, which is plug the holes with rubber grommets (or something) and remove them once you arrive at your destination (if it's salty out) Otherwise the moisture trapped in the motor does the most damage.

[electr0n]

Another HS3540 down for the count. That sucks. I think I will make a point to avoid 26" wheels if I decide to get the HS3540. I want to be able to run 3kw at least without burning up. It's interesting how you killed the HS relatively quickly but the 9C lives on. I would expect the HS to be a little more tolerant of overheating with the slightly increased mass.

[GCinDC]

It's interesting how you killed the HS relatively quickly but the 9C lives on. I would expect the HS to be a little more tolerant of overheating with the slightly increased mass.

Yeah, but the stock phase wires on the 9C are SOOOO small. I think that current bottleneck is the only thing saving it, and why I'm not upgrading them...

And honestly, from 0 - 25 mph, I can't tell the difference..

[GCinDC]

so i opened the hs3540 and am @%^#)% shocked at how poorly it's resisted water! a pile of calcification poured out. rust everywhere.

last pic compared to 9C that was in service for thousands of miles... see how black the windings are... but zero rust!

IMG_20120211_134301.jpg (226.83 KiB) Viewed 1154 times

so the 9C side covers have a lip, whereas hs3540 lay flat. is this the crucial difference?

dbaker, mind if i borrow your ebike tester again?

[GCinDC]

so the 9C side covers have a lip, whereas hs3540 lay flat. is this the crucial difference?

correction. both side covers have inside lips. i wonder if the water is coming in thru the wire hole...

[rui_fujino]

so the 9C side covers have a lip, whereas hs3540 lay flat. is this the crucial difference?

correction. both side covers have inside lips. i wonder if the water is coming in thru the wire hole...

I believe it is to do with amount of air inside the motor.
when motor heats up, the air pressure rises. Now, for the 9c there maybe less open spaces therefore less pressure when air cools down to suck the water into the motor.