AmpBike Help

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AmpBike Help

Postby PitchPenny » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:58 pm

:roll: I bought a Used Bike and Trailer @ the GoodWill for $275 it had an AMPEDBIKE REAR HUB MOTOR... the SLA batteries were in the trialer along with the controler
This Bike pulled the trailer and rode beautifully for 3 weeks took hills great
500w 36v/ 3 SLA batteries 12v 12ah
One morning the motor "clunked" in my drive way as I was taking her out for a ride
and it has never ran again...the batteries are good they hold a charge nicely the throttle light comes on but there is no motor action :(
Ampbikes just stopped returning my emails :evil: !!!
E-Bikes are VERY COOL with helping me out on the PHONE TOLL FREE NO# TOO!
My Question for the Group is; without buying a tester to do all that checking stuff
omhs and whatever else you check for volts and such....what can I do with this investment?
OH and BTW I took the bike back to GOODWILL and they know me so they gave me my $275 BACK!!! :mrgreen: and the next week I saw it @ the GOODWILL Mainstore for $75 Hell the batteries are worth that! :shock: SO i rebought this bike! yesterday I striped down all the wires and paid much attention to making sure everything was making good contact
I took off the trailer too...the bike is not so bad to ride on its own
the trailer is cool, I can actually sell that for $50 bucks and the batteries are well worth $75
I really do not know what to do with the motor and controler and throttle
Is there a way to bypass the controller and see if the motor kicks in for a moment?
not to run it longer than a few seconds...
maybe the logically way to go is to just buy a cheap electrical tester and do the testing needed
:?:


(Moderator edit: Please only start ONE thread about your problem. :( I also moved your posts from Ebike Reviews and Testing since you are not reviewing anything, but rather troubleshooting a problem.)
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby amberwolf » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:25 pm

If you're not willing to do the testing, you're gonna have to probably pay someone else in your local area to do it. If you have a friend with experience they might be able to do it for pizza or something. ;)

Unless you get lucky and find a connection or wiring problem while checking it out visually, electrically testing the stuff is gonna be necessary.

There are quite a few threads on how to troubleshoot various hubmotors, and the same tests are typically recommended to each person, for good reason. So the first thing I recommend is reading thru them and doing the tests that are recommended there. That'll save you a lot of headaches.

It's not finished yet but there may also be some instructions up on the Wiki
http://endless-sphere.com/w
House Fire Updates Thread


Got a question that isn't personal or private? Post it in the forums, don't PM it. ;)

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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby PitchPenny » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:11 pm

Well I went ahead and Bought this on line just now>>>7 Function Digital Multimeter Easy-to-read LCD readout.
I no doubt feel this is what I will need to get my hands dirty with doing all the tests needed
to understand what is wrong or right with my AMPEDBIKE HUB MOTOR, CONTROLER or THROTTLE....
Anyone care to give me feed back? tips?
(I only paid with shipping $6.75 for the Meter)
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AMPEDBIKE STOPPED NEED HELP

Postby PitchPenny » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:47 pm

I bought a used Bike @ the Goodwill
has an Ampedbike rear motor hub
which worked great for 3 weeks
then stopped

I have gone over those wires even stripped them back when there was the slightest doubt
and my batteries are good too

I sent away for a >7 Function Digital Multimeter Easy-to-read LCD readout.

can someone link me to or post what I need to do to check out the
Motor / controller / throttle /


(Moderator edit: Please only start ONE thread about your problem. I have merged this thread and it's replies with your first thread. :( )
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby neptronix » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:53 pm

500w; so it is the big black direct drive motor, yes?

If it made a clunking sound and stopped, that is quite bad.

The answer might be obvious when you open the hub motor for inspection, especially if you live in a rainy area ..
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Re: AMPEDBIKE STOPPED NEED HELP

Postby Sacman » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:55 pm

Did you recharge the battery? How do you know it's good if you don't have a MultiMeter yet? :mrgreen:
(sorry man I had to get that out of the way first)

Is there indication the system is getting power. Like are the LEDs by the throttle lighting up or not?

Are there any blown fuses in the wiring?

What are the systems (other than it stopped working)?
The more you tell us the better we can help you troubleshoot it.

******************EDIT****************
I just saw that you posted another thread on this. You really should delete this thread.
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Re: AMPEDBIKE STOPPED NEED HELP

Postby ohzee » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:08 pm

yea making a new thread for help is never a good thing.. delete this one or edit the 1st post in your other

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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby Sacman » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:21 pm

PitchPenny wrote:One morning the motor "clunked" in my drive way as I was taking her out for a ride
and it has never ran again...the batteries are good they hold a charge nicely the throttle light comes on but there is no motor action


Right off the bat... Sounds most likely the hall sensors lost power. Probably at the connector plug between motor and controller.

PitchPenny, check the group of wires coming from the hubmotor(could be bundled in one thick looking cable). Follow it to the connector plug connecting it to wires going to the controller (the box). There are 3 thick wires and 5 thin wires in that bundle. Check the wires and connector plugs of the 5 thin wires. Two of those 5 wires supplies power to your hall sensors in the motor.
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby PitchPenny » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:42 am

I have checked all the wirers...they seem intact....
I am most concerned that the inside of the motor is water damaged from the Oregon mosture which seems weird it was not in the rain but outside under a tarp
DOES ANYONE KNOW A WAY TO send direct voltage to the hub motor and bump it a bit?
just too see if it does anything for a second?
My batteries are good! they are charged and holding their charge fine...

(I am sorry I asked about my Failed AMPBIKE HUB MOTOR in 2 places
I checked and there seems to be no way to delete the other one)
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby Oakwright » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:10 am

I'm in the process of rebuilding and ampedbike motor right now actually... So I can tell you what I know so far.

First off, I'm not surprised they stopped answering your emails. Ampedbikes is not exactly known for having the highest customer service... The reason I am rebuilding my motor is because I didn't want to send it back and then not hear from them for more than a month (I am speaking from personal experience here). I have learned the only way you can get an answer is to call them. And if you look at your kit cross eyed it voids the warranty. I don't mean to derail your thread though, so getting back on topic!

You won't be able to bypass the controller. The three phase wires going to the motor toggle on and off in a specific pattern, so just supplying raw power to the motor won't do any good.

When you hit the throttle... does it make any sound? Growl?

If it simply does nothing at all, then it could be the hall sensors, which is what went toast on mine. There are three hall sensors on your motor. They detect the position of the magnets, in order to know which coils to turn on next in order to pull the wheel around. If one of the hall sensors is toast, then it doesn't know what to do, so just sits there doing nothing. There is a plug with 5 wires in it. Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Black. If you test between Red and Black, you should have 5 volts. When you spin the wheel, the voltage between Green and Black will toggle between 5 volts and 0 volts. The voltage between Blue and Black, and between Yellow and Black, will also toggle between 5 volts and 0 volts. If Green, Yellow, or Blue aren't toggling when you spin the wheel, then that means you have a dead hall sensor (in my case one was staying at 5v and another was being unreliable). They should toggle somewhere in the ballpark of 20 times per rotation, so turn the wheel slowly in order to see the jump on your meter. I really suggest testing these BEFORE you tear the motor open, as they are really hard to test once it's torn apart (I had to reassemble my motor in order to test them).

If a hall is dead, then it could be just that something is shorted out (perhaps mud, water, or rust is bridging wires). Or if they are truly dead for sure, you can buy new ones from Mouser. For most motors, you want Honeywell SS41 http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Honeywell/SS41/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtdU8v%2fCHkq39AvnkiVL6ci (there is debate about if the halls on my motor are more similar to SS41 or SS41F, but from what folks say it doesn't really matter and the SS41 will work fine).

In order to replace the hall sensors, you do need to open the wheel up. It's not the easiest thing ever, but it is quite doable.

It's easier if you just remove the wire side plate. If you remove the gear side plate, you have to first remove the gears.

To remove the wire side plate, remove all of the screws on that side. Mark the plate and the base of the motor with a sharpie, so you can line them back up right when you put it all together (some motors are not perfectly round, so you want the plate to match back up exactly right or it can rub on the inside). There is a fine seam, you want to pry that apart CAREFULLY. On my motor it was a bit hard to get a screwdriver in there, since the plate sat very smoothly against the motor and the paint didn't help either. But I put a small screwdriver in there, and tapped it LIGHTLY with a rubber mallet. You do NOT want to do it hard, because if it goes suddenly and you jam that screwdriver in there, you might mess things up bad. Once you can get a screwdriver in there, go around the plate loosening it up with the screwdriver. It might be hard to get it off since there is a bearing gripping the plate and the axle. Once you get the plate off you should be able to see the innards pretty well.

Here is a photo of what the inside of mine looked like when I took the first plate off:
Image

If you want to remove the full stator in order to clean off rust, you need to remove the gear side plate too. For that you will want a freewheel tool (this can be a useful read about that http://sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html. Ampedbikes require a Park FR-1. However, the hole in the tool is not big enough to go over the huge axle of the motor, so you need to take a drill to the tool to widen the hole (or dremel tool). Once you get the gears off (which you should replace anyways if you are using the default Ampedbikes gears, they suck, and a shimano 6 speed hyperglide freewheel gear set fits great if you add a washer as a spacer), you then need to remove the sides of the motor. Once the plates are off, you can see the stator sitting inside of the motor. You need to remove that CAREFULLY. You don't want to hurt yourself, or the motor. It will be held in by some very strong magnetic pull, and I wouldn't be surprised if you could break a finger if you get it pinched in there.

My motor was wet and rusted inside, which was totally awesome.

If however, your hall sensors are doing just fine and all three signals are toggling on and off, then it's something else.

Other things that could be malfunctioning: Throttle, Controller, brake lever cutouts, battery.

To make it all easier, you could also get a tester from Lyen: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20413


In my experience, these things take a lot of tinkering and maintenance. However, most of the things you need to do on them are pretty easy. And remember, no one was born knowing how to work on these things, we are all learning as we go. So if you want to learn, you certainly can. And in my opinion, the tinkering is as fun as the riding.
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby dogman » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:44 am

First of all, Amped bikes has zero CS responsibility for a motor bought used at goodwill. Time is $$.

Free advice is our job here, so you made it to the right place.

You can easily pull covers without removing the freewheel. A large, but cheapie three jaw puller is the best tool to use IMO.

The clunk makes me think rust and or water is the problem. Mabye a dead bearing? Once the covers are off, you can look for a bad bearing in the cover.

About the best money I ever spent on ebikes, was a motor, throttle, controller tester. About 30 bucks. Lyens has or had em, and I've seen em on the bay too.
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby dnmun » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:48 pm

do not take the motor apart. do not hook up any batteries to the motor or put voltages on the hall sensor wires.

do not do anything until the voltmeter arrives and we can direct you where to measure. you can buy a perfectly good voltmeter at harbor freight for $4, $3 on sale.

do not take the motor apart!
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby dogman » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:36 pm

Unless it won't turn by hand at all, or makes noises when turned.

You can damage wires popping the covers, so yeah, it would be good to test the halls first if the motor turns fairly easy.

It will resist if the phase wires are touching, so make sure they aren't when you try to turn the motor. Grab the axle with pliers or a wrench, and it should turn fairly smooth.
THE LIPO RULES. NEVER ABOVE 4.3V NEVER BELOW 2.7V DON'T PUNCTURE

Ideal charging /discharging range for Lipo, 3.65v minimum 4.1v maximum

See battery technology section, FAQ thread at the top of the page for lipo noob info.
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby dnmun » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:42 pm

do not take the motor apart until you get a voltmeter and can test it.

do not take the motor apart.
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby PitchPenny » Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:43 pm

Thank you all for your help! :lol:
I am concerned about the tester I am waiting for in the mail

>>> 7 Function Multi-Tester With 32" Test Leads
*Test for, DC Voltage, DC Current, AC Voltage, Resistance, Transistor Test, Diode Test & Battery Test <<<<

Ampbikes is telling me this is just to test batteries
will it do nothing when it comes to testing the hall sensors or speed controller or throttle?

:|
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby Drunkskunk » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:16 pm

PitchPenny wrote:Thank you all for your help! :lol:
I am concerned about the tester I am waiting for in the mail

>>> 7 Function Multi-Tester With 32" Test Leads
*Test for, DC Voltage, DC Current, AC Voltage, Resistance, Transistor Test, Diode Test & Battery Test <<<<

Ampbikes is telling me this is just to test batteries
will it do nothing when it comes to testing the hall sensors or speed controller or throttle?

:|



Ampedbikes is a vendor, not a manufacturer. They don't make motors or controllers. Those are made by another company someplace in China. Unfortunatly, Ampedbikes don't have a clue on tech problems beyond replacing parts if they don't work, or checking battery voltage.


The meter you have should be fine. You need to be able to test DC voltage and Resistance (Ohms). to confuse the issue less, we can explain more when the meter arives.


As for the "Clunk", does it make that clunk noise if you try to push the bike, or turn the wheel with the battery disconnected? If you try to ride the bike with no battery, does it make the clunk, or any pulsing, jerking motion?
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby PitchPenny » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:49 pm

Thank you :D I was fairly certain that the Meter I am waiting for from ebay will be fine
Weird how Ampedbike cast doubt on this :roll:
As for that "CLUNK" well this is what happened when the bike stopped working;

I was pulling out of my tight opening in my driveway and I pressed the Throttle and the Bike
jerked forward and hit into a blockage... I was not on the bike I was guiding it...
that is when I heard the "CLUNK" in the Motor and it never started up in again...
The Motor is dead!
but the lights on the Throttle are all on...theer could have been wirer's that were yanked
or an over heating occured maybe...I am not sure...but that is the lay out of the scene that took place when my bike died :cry:
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby dnmun » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:52 pm

sounds like a twistoff. clunk, then dead.

if you take pictures and post them up of where the nuts hold the axle and where the torque arm is attached and where the wires go into the axle, we can make some observations until you go buy a voltmeter at harbor freight.
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby DAND214 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:12 pm

Don't worry about what they say. You will learn how and what to do here. great support without buying anything here.

You can test much more than batteries with voltmeter, just wait and when you get it ask for more help.

IT'S here.

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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby PitchPenny » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:22 am

Well my 7 function digital multimeter came today
SO IF anyone out there can walk me though what I need to do
to TEST my AMPEDBIKE Motor, Speed Controller, and my Throttle
I would be deeply pleased!
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AmpedBike Help?

Postby PitchPenny » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:02 pm

Hello Friends,
I am new here...and the Help was wonderful, but then it stop :cry:
So I will start again...
I bought a Used AMPEDBIKE Rear Hub Motor hooked up to a cool Bike and Trailer
I paid $75.00 it road great for 3 weeks 8)
Then one Sad morning I was pulling it out of my driveway
it is actually a tight squeeze to get out and you know how weird trailers can be :arrow:
so I gave a tiny a hit on the Throttle and it jerked forward a foot and bumped my fence
made a clunking sound in the motor and never RAN AGAIN :cry:
The batteries show they are charged and hold a charged (3 12v 12ah SLA)
I tore down the bike took to trailer off and even stripped wires back to look for shorts
I can find nothing wrong with the connections...SO NOW I TURN to this Forum
For Help...I have a 7 function digital multimeter WHO HERE can WALK me though
the PROCESS of checking the Motor the Speed Controller and the Throttle/ 8)
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Re: AmpedBike Help?

Postby Ypedal » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:08 pm

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36752&p=532480#p532480

It would be helpfull, and preferable that you continue with the original thread.....
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby Ypedal » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:15 pm

so now that you tell us the WHOLE story...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37023

PitchPenny wrote:Hello Friends,
I am new here...and the Help was wonderful, but then it stop :cry:
So I will start again...
I bought a Used AMPEDBIKE Rear Hub Motor hooked up to a cool Bike and Trailer
I paid $75.00 it road great for 3 weeks 8)
Then one Sad morning I was pulling it out of my driveway
it is actually a tight squeeze to get out and you know how weird trailers can be :arrow:
so I gave a tiny a hit on the Throttle and it jerked forward a foot and bumped my fence
made a clunking sound in the motor and never RAN AGAIN
:cry:
The batteries show they are charged and hold a charged (3 12v 12ah SLA)
I tore down the bike took to trailer off and even stripped wires back to look for shorts
I can find nothing wrong with the connections...SO NOW I TURN to this Forum
For Help...I have a 7 function digital multimeter WHO HERE can WALK me though
the PROCESS of checking the Motor the Speed Controller and the Throttle/ 8)


Telling us things like this,.. MATTERS... when troubleshooting..

dear god man...

The meter will do more than test the batteries, it can test if a wire is broken or not.. can test the Hall sensors that the guy above explained in detail... it can also.. well.. that's enough for now ..
ES site status page, for when "things" happen...
http://www.ypedal.com/ES/ES.htm
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby Oakwright » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:38 pm

Patience is a virtue. Not all of us get a chance to read the forums every day, so sometimes information can be slow. Folks here are fairly eager to help, but everyone here is a volunteer and many of us have day jobs.

There should be some plugs running from your motor to the controller.

There should be a set of three wires: Yellow, Green, Blue, those are your phase wires. 36 volts goes through those wires in alternating patterns in order to make your motor go.

There should also be a set of five wires, Yellow, Green, Blue, Red, Black, those are your hall sensor wires. 5 volts goes through those wires in different patterns depending on the position of your motor. Basically they send signals to the controller letting it know in what position the wheel is in, so it can know how it should change the voltage in the phase wires to get forward movement.

My first advice would be to test the hall sensor wires. If the plug for the 5 wires is similar to mine, which it likely is since we both have ampedbikes motors, it should be a white plug. If your multimeter had good thin tips, you should be able to slide them into the backend of the plugs while it is all assembled. Set your multimeter so it's set to measure voltage, somewhere in the 5 volt range. Stick the red one alongside the red wire, and the black one alongside the black wire. You should measure 5 volts. If not, there is something wrong. After that, stick the red probe into the green wire, black to black, and turn the wheel very slowly. About every inch or so of wheel movement the voltage should toggle between 5v and 0v. If it doesn't toggle, there is something wrong. Then put the red to blue, black to black, and move the wheel slowly to see if it toggles. Repeat for yellow.

You should always have a constant 5v coming from the controller on the red wire. You should have the Green, Yellow, and Blue wires alternate between 5v and 0v. Always sink the black probe to black when testing the halls.

Let me know if that doesn't make sense and I can take pictures later tonight of my plug and where I put the probes when testing my halls.

Let us know if any of the halls fail to toggle. If all of the halls toggle, then the halls are probably not what is wrong.
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Re: AmpBike Help

Postby PitchPenny » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:41 am

oakright thank you~


>>>>>>>>>>>There should be some plugs running from your motor to the controller.

There should be a set of three wires: Yellow, Green, Blue, those are your phase wires. 36 volts goes through those wires in alternating patterns in order to make your motor go.

There should also be a set of five wires, Yellow, Green, Blue, Red, Black, those are your hall sensor wires. 5 volts goes through those wires in different patterns depending on the position of your motor. Basically they send signals to the controller letting it know in what position the wheel is in, so it can know how it should change the voltage in the phase wires to get forward movement.

My first advice would be to test the hall sensor wires.

If the plug for the 5 wires is similar to mine, which it likely is since we both have ampedbikes motors, it should be a white plug. If your multimeter had good thin tips, you should be able to slide them into the backend of the plugs while it is all assembled. Set your multimeter so it's set to measure voltage, somewhere in the 5 volt range. Stick the red one alongside the red wire, and the black one alongside the black wire. You should measure 5 volts. If not, there is something wrong. After that, stick the red probe into the green wire, black to black, and turn the wheel very slowly. About every inch or so of wheel movement the voltage should toggle between 5v and 0v. If it doesn't toggle, there is something wrong. Then put the red to blue, black to black, and move the wheel slowly to see if it toggles. Repeat for yellow.

You should always have a constant 5v coming from the controller on the red wire. You should have the Green, Yellow, and Blue wires alternate between 5v and 0v. Always sink the black probe to black when testing the halls.

Let me know if that doesn't make sense and I can take pictures later tonight of my plug and where I put the probes when testing my halls.

Let us know if any of the halls fail to toggle. If all of the halls toggle, then the halls are probably not what is wrong.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



SENDING PICS WILL DO THE TRICK
I am certain I can do this with visual aid!
Thanks again
Oh and I have never used a meter before and to be honest it looks quite confusing
I read the info that came with it and by matching the pic I was able to test a 9 volt battery
and an AA battery...so I am not that far off
I just want to send up a smoke signal here that; "where to set the dial on the meter is a mystery to me"
PitchPenny
10 mW
10 mW
 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:19 pm

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