Complete Hobby King Lipo Protection Kit

[ryan]

So I just received my 80A Maxi fuse and inline fuse holder and WOW is this thing HUGE! Is there anything a little more reasonably sized that you can recommend for an 18S setup? I have a cute little inline ceramic cylinder 20A 240v fuse for my charger. Do they make ones for more amps? Anything else smaller to recommend? I'm not sure I can fit this beast in my enclosure.

[zukster]

I think I used one of those on my car! You might need something that big for 80A though...

[acuteaero]

If you have a good high power iron and good flux you can solder wire directly to the terminals of the maxi fuse and save the space that the holder requires... You can also take a look at car-audio amplifier fuses, like an AGC or AGU fuse- they are glass cylindrical. Some people recommend paralleling small ATC blade fuses but I have had bad results doing that.

-H

[Kin]

So I just received my 80A Maxi fuse and inline fuse holder and WOW is this thing HUGE! Is there anything a little more reasonably sized that you can recommend for an 18S setup? I have a cute little inline ceramic cylinder 20A 240v fuse for my charger. Do they make ones for more amps? Anything else smaller to recommend? I'm not sure I can fit this beast in my enclosure.

I don't think AC fuses work for DC, so you can't just parallel a bunch of 240v 20a charger fuses.

I don't know what the answer is, but LFP asked a similar question for 125V viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32978

[ryan]

Thanks Kin. I bumped that thread to see if anyone has an answer yet.

[Alan B]

If you don't use a properly voltage rated DC fuse you run the risk that an arc will form and the current will continue for a much longer time, causing a lot of heat to be deposited into the fuse, wiring and short. DC fuses are designed to interrupt the arc up to some voltage, above that they may interrupt the current very late. Note that many maxifuses are not rated for high voltage, only certain models are.

[dougnutz]

I think most of us are just looking to stop catastrophic failures.
Since most of the fuses like the Maxi fuses are so large I've opted for fulible link wire on my high current leads. It's easy to fit into a lot of places and prevents the meltdowns associated with no Fuse.

[zukster]

Mr. Methods, what kind of epoxy were you using before for the boards? Anything special? Thermal conductive epoxies for potting at the local electronics store are expensive

Also, anyone out there know of a good 20 amp or better small waterproof power switch that works well?

Believe it or not, my best experience has been with regular wall light switches but they're not waterproof and they're kinda big. With a bit of glue gun glue, they hold up against most water, and they seem very resistant to carbonizing from the power-on sparks. 2 years + with 20 amp controller and 60V batteries with no problem. Ya - I know there are several ways to buffer the spark, but this works and is simple.

Still a smaller waterproof switch would be nice.

[ryan]

I think most of us are just looking to stop catastrophic failures.
Since most of the fuses like the Maxi fuses are so large I've opted for fulible link wire on my high current leads. It's easy to fit into a lot of places and prevents the meltdowns associated with no Fuse.

Please share more. I assume you mean "Fusible link wire". Can you link to an example?

[bigmoose]

This got me looking a little more:

Here is a page on fusible links: (I think 12 Gauge Fusible Link is for like 150 amps max, tried to find a good reference, but no luck yet. Going from memory....)
http://www.clipsandfasteners.com/12_Gauge_Fusible_Link_Wire_9_Length_p/a17465.htm

http://whiteproducts.com/fusible-faqs.shtml

Are there any general guidelines for choosing a suitable fusible link?
Typically, a given harness segment is protected by fusible link that is four gauge numbers smaller. A 14-gauge wire would be protected by an 18-gauge fusible link. A 6-gauge wire would be protected by a 10-gauge link, and so on. Odd number wire gauge sizes like 19, 15, 13 and 11 are counted when sizing a link. The length of a fusible link should not exceed 9"

Where can I find more technical information on automotive fusible links?
Specifications relating to conductors, insulation, wire size, length, location termination, identification and testing are spelled out in SAE Specification J156, The Society of Automotive Engineers.

There are some high current (up to 140 amps) slow blow rated fuse/fusible link like elements called Pacific Auto Links or PALs that are available through auto parts stores for about 5 bucks. When I pulled the data sheet on them, they are rated up to 58 Volts, which is a lot better than 24 volt rated fuses.

Here is a PAL with tabs:
http://www.clipsandfasteners.com/Pal_Fuse_100_Amp_Bent_Blue_p/a19296.htm

Here is the data sheet for these PALs: and a lot of automotive rated fuses. There is a nice EV fuse rated at 450V DC also:
http://www.pecj.co.jp/en/fuse/pdf/catalog.pdf

[methods]

I was just using standard epoxy. High end epoxy is WAY too expensive.

I use low voltage fuses in high voltage applications but the above posts are certainly correct... I have seen 100V DC sustain a 1" ark for several seconds. What is important to note is the load though... To rip a 1" spark like that you have to be pushing into an inductive load like a big oil heater. My experience has been a "short circuit" like you would see with a blown controller (shorted fets) or shorted wires (plugged in backwards) will quickly blow a MAXI fuse out. Really depends on whether you are trying to protect your sensitive electronics or if you are just trying to stop a major fire.

I dont really think the Maxi is that big... you really cant find a place to hide that? It is only 1cm thick....

I would not solder to the legs unless you have some way to bypass. I connectorize my fuses so that I can bypass them if needed. First time you blow a fuse 12 miles down a fire road in the middle of the national Forrest you will understand why.

-methods

[Kin]

I've heard of using metal dust/finest things you can find that aren't greasy, along with epoxy in some sort of suspension. I don't know how improved it is, though.

Was just looking for a few posts to verify my memory, most involve using thermal epoxy for adhesion of heatsinks, but it still seems relevant.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho ... rmal-Epoxy


I also know that certain high tempt epoxy putties advertise "includes titanium fillings!" whose point I guess is to reduce brittle fracture, but is still relevant to making things more thermally conductive.


If you use metal oxides it should still conduct heat and not be as conductive for shorting things.

[dougnutz]

I think most of us are just looking to stop catastrophic failures.
Since most of the fuses like the Maxi fuses are so large I've opted for fulible link wire on my high current leads. It's easy to fit into a lot of places and prevents the meltdowns associated with no Fuse.

Please share more. I assume you mean "Fusible link wire". Can you link to an example?

Yes, I ment fusible link Wire, I depend on spell check too much
Anyway it's common in the auto industry and most parts supply houses(ie Napa) will have it on the shelf. Most of the time it is rated at for amps, but if not it will list the wire size and the rule of thumb is to use a gauge size two sizes smaller than the circuit you are protecting. Again these things are designed to be "slow blow" but still stop catastrophic failures.

Another nice thing about fusible link wire is that if you do smoke the link while out on the road and need to make a road side repair you can twist the melted link back together and still have some level of circuit protection. That's pretty hard to do with a Maxi fuse, but you could carry a spare.

[zukster]

I connectorize my fuses so that I can bypass them if needed. -methods

Man - I'm thinking of connectorizing everything to make swapping failed components easier. I just went and got some standard 20A/30VDC M12 MODE SPST switches to replace a flaky one and I realized that connectorizing would be the way to go for everything. What kinds of connectors do you use for that?

I got some waterproof MODE boots with o-rings that thread onto the M12 part of the switch I bought to waterproof the switches. Epoxy the back, connectorize, done.

[atom1025]

Figured I would ask here in case any one else was unsure. So my throttle has red, black, and brown wires. The throttle retard cable is red, black, yellow.

My rc experience tells me the reds positive, blacks negative, brown is signal, yellow is signal.

Correct? Better safe then sorry.

Throttle is a thumb marked emaxi.

Adam


Edit to complete post.

So using the described method by methods two post down I determined my throttle wiring is as follows. Red +5v. Black ground. Yellow signal. Hooked it all up and everything moved like its supposed to.

[methods]

I use Anderson connections everywhere. These are the small housings that can take the 15A, 30A, and 45A contacts. I have the $45 crimper and I have crimped at hundreds and hundreds of connections with them. Anderson are non-polarized and you can hook them together in all sorts of different configurations. I use them for my 100V 100A power connections, Phase connections, fuses, on my packs, for my chargers, and for my tooling. Same as used on Crystalyte and Ebikes.ca controllers. Same as used by the entire ham radio community.

I Connectorize everything. I no longer solder either - crimping is better. More consistent and much faster. A Ratcheting crimper is an absolute must though.

Sets (forget the locking pin, they suck. Use a spot of superglue if you need it)
http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/powerpole-sets/

crimper
http://www.powerwerx.com/powerpole-accessories/tricrimp-crimping-powerpole-contacts.html

All of the contacts are effectively the same - they just have a larger or smaller opening for the wire. Hobby King 10AWG fits perfectly in the 45A contact. Still get some 15A and 30A for smaller gauge wire - bigger is not better. Fitting correctly is better.

Dont even think about buying imitation - they will just melt. These connectors are engineered... fakes wont work. Everything from a special coating that "cleans the contacts" upon every assembly / disassembley, to the proper spring tension - after assembly the contact must be "loose" in the housing for the connector to work as designed. Once put together with its mate it will make a highly reliable contact.

-methods

[methods]

No

The Throttle Retard cable does not follow color standards. We buy them as pigtails.

YELLOW = GROUND
RED = SIGNAL
BLACK = 5V

Do not trust color coding on any of this stuff. You must use pin location as your guide. Ground can be identified by measuring continuity to controller ground with the power off. 5V can be identified by powering the controller and making a voltage measurement from controller ground to one of the three pins. That leaves the third pin which must be signal.

Remember that Lyen controllers might have too low of an input resistance - measure it and use a 500 ohm retard resistor if the Lyen is 2k.

-methods

Figured I would ask here in case any one else was unsure. So my throttle has red, black, and brown wires. The throttle retard cable is red, black, yellow.

My rc experience tells me the reds positive, blacks negative, brown is signal, yellow is signal.

Correct? Better safe then sorry.

Throttle is a thumb marked emaxi.

Adam

[zukster]

I use Anderson connections everywhere... I Connectorize everything. I no longer solder either - crimping is better... Sets (forget the locking pin, they suck.

I love Anderson's too. I use them for for anything power related. I even considered for hall wires but it seemed overkill. For semi-permanent connections I'd love to find some of these connectors that come with the older Bafangs and Infineons. See pics below.





For a fuse connection I'd prefer something like the second picture yellow connector with my own shinktube. Not much wider than the wire itself. The green boots are what the connectors came with. This would make for more tidy wire runs and you could still unplug and replace by taking just the shrink tube off.

Below is how I hold Anderson's together. Superglue the ones snapped side by side (red/black), then tie strap them together with the pin holes !

[amberwolf]

Those older "bullets" look pretty much like the ones on the 12V wiring harness I'm using on CrazyBike2, salvaged from an '80s Honda scooter.

[jonescg]

Hi Patrick, I sent my PM late last night so I'm not sure if it made sense then or not. So I will cover it here since it involves me buying stuff

I will have a battery pack with 170 cells in series. That's right, a 700 V pack at full charge. TTXGP rules require me to have a BMS of some persuasion onboard, and it must have LVC and HVC. In my opinion the HVC can be off-board since the only time it will ever be high is when you are charging...

Anyway, I'm going to have about 20 of these sub-packs in my 10 kWh pack:


Ignore the current balance plugs, as these will all head up to a single PCB with screw terminal blocks, and LVC/HVC circuitry for all 170 cells and 5 of DB37 female D-Sub plugs in parallel for diagnostics / balance charging. UNLESS I can fit a 7-10s version of your little boards on each sub-pack.

I am willing to pay for the development costs of a 170S version of these little boards if you're keen to try.

Lemme know what you think.

Cheers mate,
CHRIS

[zukster]

Those older "bullets" look pretty much like the ones on the 12V wiring harness I'm using on CrazyBike2, salvaged from an '80s Honda scooter.

Ya, but where can you get them? They don't have them at "The Source"/"Radio Shack", or Interior Electronics here in Vancouver. Actually Lee's on Main might... I resorted to stripped down banana jacks last night but they're too long. They're about half the diameter of an Anderson connector though.

[amberwolf]

The ones from my Honda scooter harness are not from or for "electronics" but rather automotive use. So you'd want to look at automotive places around you to see if they carry spares. If not, you can probably find them on the web.

Just remember, they were designed for low currents and low voltages, and in my experience they deform easily and very easily lose their tension in holding onto each other. The bullet part doesn't have any springs in it, and is solid, so the outer barrel is the only "springy" part, and once it is no longer round it makes poor connections for any real current passing thru it.

So I would not use them for any current-carrying connector, like phase or battery. They're ok for halls or brakes or throttle, etc., though.


Banana plugs have a similar problem: they're also not made for high currents, and it's a fair bet that the springs in them are going to get unspringy once heated. Thy may not heat up, but if they do, it just makes a spiral of problems as they heat and unspringy and then have worse conenction and higher resistanc and more heat, etc., Same as the automotive bullets. I've had problems with numerous banana plugs just on test equpment like voltmeters, where almost no current ever passes thru them, and no plug/unplug cycles, as the springs just seem to collapse and no longer hold the plug in the jack.


So if you are looking for a higher current bullet type of connection, you may want to look into the ones used for RC stuff. Ebikes.ca / Grin probably has something, since you are in Vancouver you could pick up at their shop.

[teklektik]

I spent a fair amount of time recently looking for the old familiar pointy-head bullet connectors but they seem to have fallen out of favor. As far as I could determine, they have been replaced with a bigger, round-nose bullet...

I'd be interested if you locate a source for the retro variety.

[Sacman]

Car Stereo Installers use those bullet connections all the time (I know because I used to be one).
But they use the blue and red connectors jacketted with the hard plastic boot (instead of the clear rubber boot which will deteriorate and crumble over time). The red connectors are for thinner 18-22 gauge wire, the blue is for medium 14-16 gauge wire.

You can get them in bulk for cheap at Sonic Electronix:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_m38_ ... ctors.html

Just make sure you have a set of good crimpers to have strong and solid connections.

[zukster]

The ones from my Honda scooter harness are not from or for "electronics" but rather automotive use. Just remember, they were designed for low currents and low voltages, and in my experience they deform easily and very easily lose their tension in holding onto each other.

They've worked okay on my Bafang 20amp and less ebikes for a few years now, but they don't get unplugged and plugged much. Once the cable is run to the motor, I shrink tube them to make sure they stay connected and that the connection it good. They make for a small cable bunch running back to the motor. That's why I like them. I hope I have decent results with the modified bananas now. Will report back later after I get some time with them.

I haven't seen RC stuff quite like these automotive connectors other than the 4mm bananas. Ebikes.ca just has Andersons. So the search goes on.