Brammo Enertia +

[zEEz]

I was wondering if anybody considered this model.
It has a popular price, safe battery chemistry, a fine controller and
a reliable motor (a custom Perm PMS120).

Assuming we would like to get, as separate components, only the battery, motor and controller
we probably reach the selling price of the entire vehicle ... letting alone the ECO incentives ....

So my question is ... EV is starting to show popular prices?

have fun!

[rojitor]

That model is obsolete, the empulse is the real deal http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19896&hilit=empulse

[e-beach]

Not spamming....just being honest.

I have been lustfully desiring a Brammo Enertia since I first saw it on the internet. I used to ride motorcycles exclusively. The upright style seems so much more comfortable then the stooped-lay-across-the-gas-tank style of most croch-rocket motorcycles.

I love two wheeled vehicles. I went through a 15 year period in my life when I only owned motorcycles as transportation, hot, cold, rain or shine. At some point I gave up the two wheeled transportation for the safety of four wheels.

Now, I am gleefully beginning to build and riding my ebike!!! With more ebikes to come!!!

All that being said, I still desire a Brammo Enertia! I think it would be an incredible e-cycle....but....it is out of my price range.

I hope they sell 100 million of them!!!

[zEEz]

Thanx for posting your thoughts!

I'm not really convinced that the Empulse is killing the Enertia ...
They are completely different vehicles ...

This is the reason why I made this post ... I read a lot of vivid enthusiasm
in the post about the Brammo Empulse, and I must admit that few months ago,
when I saw the first pictures, I was very impressed: THAT IS THE eBIKE!

Still, for people that need to use the bike for short commuting or shopping, perhaps
the Enertia is more user friendly, with its upright position ...
Not to mention that it is a potentially less promising target for thieves ...
YEAH, IT IS KIND OF UGLY! and it is resembling a motorbike
that was produced by Aprilia in 1994 in Italy, called the Moto' 6.5 that never sold too many
exemplars, despite being designed by Philippe Starck.



have fun!

[Brammofan]

I own a Brammo Enertia and use it for commuting. It's a great bike, easy to ride, gets lots of looks and comments, and is able to easily handle my 22 mile roundtrip commute. I don't charge at work (with a few exceptions) and I keep, for the most part, to surface streets rather than highways. I haven't ridden it in a couple months, unfortunately, because it's cold here, and I'm a big wimp.

[zEEz]

thanx, Brammofan, this is great news ...
would you comment more on your bike? I'm quite curious about the motor.

I read an owner manual of the bike and that lead me to the believe this model was produced
with different motors. Is yours a recent one with 13kW? Or perhaps could you
take a closeup picture of the motor to post it here to satisfy my curiosity?

I suspect using the ebike commuting daily to work is a good way to save money
on petrol ... since you spend 1/2 $ for a full 'tank' ...

have fun!

[Brammofan]

I'm pretty sure it's the 13kW motor. The specs are listed here: http://www.brammo.com/enertia_specifications/ and as near as I can tell, they haven't changed them for the lifetime of that particular page of their site.

It's definitely helped save me money. My gas-guzzler is a Honda Pilot and it get's about 18-20 miles per gallon, so it's about $3.50 every day, depending on the gas price, of course. I have one of those "Kill-a-Watt" meters and figured that, based on my utility's rates, my commute costs me about 25 cents worth of electricity every day. Don't forget that the only real maintenance I have to do is lubing the chain.

I run the Brammo Owners Forum at brammoforum dot com so a lot of the "comment more on the bike" stuff is already out there. I'd be happy to answer questions, though.

[zEEz]

I'm pretty sure it's the 13kW motor. The specs are listed here: http://www.brammo.com/enertia_specifications/ and as near as I can tell, they haven't changed them for the lifetime of that particular page of their site.

Well, it seems not, since I read a User Manual from 2010 that states the motor power as 7.0kW ...
perhaps it was the early version ... still if you have a pic of the motor I would be curious!

I will pass by to see the other forum

have fun!

[Brammofan]

I'm pretty sure it's the 13kW motor. The specs are listed here: http://www.brammo.com/enertia_specifications/ and as near as I can tell, they haven't changed them for the lifetime of that particular page of their site.

Well, it seems not, since I read a User Manual from 2010 that states the motor power as 7.0kW ...
perhaps it was the early version ... still if you have a pic of the motor I would be curious!

Indeed you are correct! There is definitely a discrepancy between the manual and the site. I have no idea about the size of the motor is, so will check it out and get back to you.

[grindz145]

freaking fanboy.... Just kidding. I think Brammo is sick.

The enertia is a fantastic commuting platform.

[zEEz]

Indeed you are correct! There is definitely a discrepancy between the manual and the site. I have no idea about the size of the motor is, so will check it out and get back to you.

Just have a look: this is the possible motor as they say around: it is a Perm PMS150



alternatively it could be something like this, a Mars ME0913 that they are using on the ZERO:



have fun!

[Brammofan]

It definitely looks more like the top pic. Without removing body panels, I can't get to the motor, but I can see part of it through an opening on the back. I'll try to remember to take a picture today.

[zEEz]

It definitely looks more like the top pic. Without removing body panels, I can't get to the motor, but I can see part of it through an opening on the back. I'll try to remember to take a picture today.

Make sense ... that is the opinion of many others ... must make sense ...

Nice it is your brammo user forum ... In case I buy an Enertia+ I'll register for sure

have fun!

[Brammofan]

Thanks! Actually, I share "ownership" of that forum with the great motorcycle forum overlord, skadamo, who also happens to be a member of this fine forum.

[zEEz]

I'll try to remember to take a picture today.

This is a nice idea, since I'm really curious to know if the motor used is the air cooled
version or it has the pipe connections for watercooling as well ...

Unfortunately I would like the Enertia+ motorbike to have many improvements, in order to appeal
me enough to buy it ... among this things ...:

-long seat + pegs to carry a passenger ....
-known motor controller to be able to tweak it
-watercooled motor
-not exploding batteries

have fun!

[Brammofan]

Okay, so I finally gave up and went to the source. Here's Brammo's answer to the 7 vs. 13 kW discrepancy:

The 7kW indicated in the owner’s manual is the nominal rating, 13kW is the peak rating. It is more common for electric motors to be designated by their nominal power versus gasoline engines which are usually compared on peak power ratings.

FYI – there is a manufacturer’s label on the motor itself, but you’d have to pull the motor out of the bike to see it!

The Enertia “Classic” model uses a Perm PMS-120 motor with a custom winding and some special parts for Brammo.

The Enertia Plus will ship with a Perm PMS-126 motor that greatly improves thermal performance and provides for slightly higher peak power, mostly stemming from improvements made to the manufacturing and calibration process of the motors at Perm in Germany. We have been very impressed/happy with the performance we’re seeing on the Enertia Plus prototypes running around Ashland.

[zEEz]

Interesting find, Brammofan ....

Still, this make me even more suspicious about the motor ..... and perhaps I understand
the reason of the fan being often working when going high speed ....

From the spec sheets I found it appear that those pms-120 and pms-126 are more equivalent to
a Mars ME0907 than to a ME0913 ... respectively avg. power 5 and 10kW - peak 15 and 30kW ....
.... peak power specify a condition that can be held for less
than a minute to avoid thermal problems ...

have fun!

[liveforphysics]

alternatively it could be something like this, a Mars ME0913 that they are using on the ZERO:



have fun!

The BLDC motor in the Zero actually barely resembles that ME0913. It's been exhaustively redesigned both magnetically as well as the entire cooling design. The case looks much different as well.

[liveforphysics]

Okay, so I finally gave up and went to the source. Here's Brammo's answer to the 7 vs. 13 kW discrepancy:

The 7kW indicated in the owner’s manual is the nominal rating, 13kW is the peak rating. It is more common for electric motors to be designated by their nominal power versus gasoline engines which are usually compared on peak power ratings.

FYI – there is a manufacturer’s label on the motor itself, but you’d have to pull the motor out of the bike to see it!

The Enertia “Classic” model uses a Perm PMS-120 motor with a custom winding and some special parts for Brammo.

The Enertia Plus will ship with a Perm PMS-126 motor that greatly improves thermal performance and provides for slightly higher peak power, mostly stemming from improvements made to the manufacturing and calibration process of the motors at Perm in Germany. We have been very impressed/happy with the performance we’re seeing on the Enertia Plus prototypes running around Ashland.

I actually happen to have a Brammo Enertia sitting in the room next to me, and a motorcycle dyno. I can just make a little video dyno'ing the bike and post up exactly what it's power curve on a fresh fully topped-off pack looks like.

[zEEz]

Cool, lfp!
That would be a nice first hand info!
Especially if you can log the motor temperature during the torture

I unfortunately don't have a Zero nearby, so I cannot tell more about its
motor, except from what I heard around ... but I easy believe they made
a custom version of the motor in order to avoid people tinkering ....

have fun!

[liveforphysics]

Cool, lfp!
That would be a nice first hand info!
Especially if you can log the motor temperature during the torture

I unfortunately don't have a Zero nearby, so I cannot tell more about its
motor, except from what I heard around ... but I easy believe they made
a custom version of the motor in order to avoid people tinkering ....

have fun!

I'm not going to log temps on the Brammo, just make some power pulls. I barely have time for that.


The Zero's motor changes have nothing to do with avoiding people tinkering. We were able to DOUBLE the continuous power the motor is capable of through radically improved cooling and magnetic design, and improve efficiency substantially. It can be tinkered with as equally easy as any other motor, this one just works much much better.

[zEEz]

The Zero's motor changes have nothing to do with avoiding people tinkering. We were able to DOUBLE the continuous power the motor is capable of through radically improved cooling and magnetic design, and improve efficiency substantially. It can be tinkered with as equally easy as any other motor, this one just works much much better.

So you mean the custom ME0913 of the Zero is sporting a continuous power of 30kW? COOL
And You had a part in this redesign? interesting! Did you use the experience of Ripperton?
Is the motor new magnet system a way to have higher efficiency with trapezoidal drive instead
of the sinusoidal drive for which the original magnets were made?

Beside, by tinkering I was meaning that if I am a Zero Owner and I know that my motorbike
is using a standard motor that I can get on the market for 600$, I would be less careful to do
bad thing to it than If I know that in case of burned stuff I need to ship everything back to MAMA

have fun!

[liveforphysics]

The Zero's motor changes have nothing to do with avoiding people tinkering. We were able to DOUBLE the continuous power the motor is capable of through radically improved cooling and magnetic design, and improve efficiency substantially. It can be tinkered with as equally easy as any other motor, this one just works much much better.

So you mean the custom ME0913 of the Zero is sporting a continuous power of 30kW? COOL
And You had a part in this redesign? interesting! Did you use the experience of Ripperton?
Is the motor new magnet system a way to have higher efficiency with trapezoidal drive instead
of the sinusoidal drive for which the original magnets were made?

Beside, by tinkering I was meaning that if I am a Zero Owner and I know that my motorbike
is using a standard motor that I can get on the market for 600$, I would be less careful to do
bad thing to it than If I know that in case of burned stuff I need to ship everything back to MAMA

have fun!

No, it doesn't do a continous 30kW, the numbers claimed by the factory for the original ME0913 were extremely optimistic..

If you burn your motor up (which not a single person has in the 7 months we have been beating the snot out of them, it has extremely good temp protection), then your bike gets its motor replaced for free at no expense to you, so you wouldn't have to worry about buying one from Mote-energy/MARS etc. That's part of the advantage you get in buying a OEM vehicle with a warranty rather than building your own.

[liveforphysics]

Ok, here is the exact power a Brammo Enertia outputs with a freshly topped off pack.

Now you don't have to guess from the owners manual etc.

The peak power the bike outputs is 11.3hp, or 8.42kw. ***Note- BrammoBrian has suggested that this may not be a healthy bike, so while these numbers represent exactly what this one is making, Brian thinks something may be wrong with the bike, though it shows no faults and seems to operate like a healthy machine. Hopefully something is wrong with this one, and it will crank out some better numbers after we find time for a Brammo service check-up to take a look.

I've pulled the video until we can be certain that it's healthy and performing at it's best.

[BrammoBrian]

The Enertia uses a 13kW peak motor. Here's a link to the dyno chart from Motorcyclist magazine's test of the bike:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/compa ... to_19.html

I could provide further dyno proof if you really require it. Of course dynos need to be calibrated and so they are best used for measuring performance improvements relative to previous runs on the same dyno or multiple bikes in relation to each other on the same dyno. Comparing dyno results from one dyno to the next is an endless blackhole of debate that I've been sucked into one too many times.

I promise it's a 13kW motor. Perm's made some nice improvements to their production processes as well as encoder alignment processes, all of which have a nice effect of providing consistent peak power of around 17hp on newer production motors. I have VIN #0063 and I was lucky enough to know the result of my bike's end of line dyno test and it ended up just under 16hp. Also keep in mind that the Enertia Plus (not the Enertia "standard" tested here) has a raised battery voltage bus (88.8Vdc nominal) and less voltage sag due to lower pack impedance and series resistance. This provides a little oomph at the top end.

If you think your bike is not performing well, we'd be happy to have a service tech drop in at Zero HQ to take a look at your Enertia...