Dow-Kokam (NMC) vs. A123 (LiFePo4) comparative analysis...

[ohzee]

Everyone hit's the high's and low's.

Being one of the more recent pack of newbs I myself and happy you are still here
to help people out and I find your various threads about different battery types and
what you are doing with them helpful.

Sometimes it's just good to have someone talk you down from that ledge and the bonding that goes with it.

I am very interested in these cells and I am also better to spend my money come 3/1.

[sangesf]

Everyone hit's the high's and low's.

Being one of the more recent pack of newbs I myself and happy you are still here
to help people out and I find your various threads about different battery types and
what you are doing with them helpful.

Sometimes it's just good to have someone talk you down from that ledge and the bonding that goes with it.

I am very interested in these cells and I am also better to spend my money come 3/1.

Thanks for the "up talk", but not really needed..
I love dealing with trolls...

[John in CR]

All I care about is getting batteries that meet or exceed my needs for the cheapest price per wh possible as long as they have a life expectancy of at least several years of daily use. LFP had a devil of a time building a hearty enough rig to fully load test these A123 pouch cells, and that's certainly good enough for me.

By the time these wear out I have little doubt that something even better will be even cheaper. Around that same time I'm expecting really long life batts to be in the $100-200/kwh range, so I can have a $10k pack in something car-like that plugs into the house to supplement another $10k pack at the house with solar/wind/hydro/geothermal or whatever keeping my bulk storage sufficiently fully to meet my family's energy needs for both home and transportation. At only $.30/wh for these A123's that kind of energy freedom is so close I can almost taste it.

[Harold in CR]

+1

[Ypedal]

I saw this last night and was way too drunk to make sense of it.. tried again this morning and it's not any clearer... damn..

So.. if you are setting up a buy/sell.. it should be in the for sale section.. i can move it.

if you want to have a discussion about X vs Y then fine.. it can be here.. but man i'm confused.. maybe after a cup of coffee..

[docnjoj]

Sorry to avoid the boxing match but here is a legit question. How do you solder or connect these cells. This does seem like a good price. I looking to make either 12 s or 16 s pack. Thanks!
otherDoc

[ohzee]

that's the downside with these cells the end user is left to figure that on his own.

oatnet has a nice writeup on how he did it just search on his posts. Wish there was like some kind
of kit you could purchase to make it easier , but I have not seen such a thing yet.

[docnjoj]

Thanks ohzee. I dont mind soldering at all especially with the size of these cells. But if I need to make clips I would be less inclined to buy them.
otherDoc

[sangesf]

I saw this last night and was way too drunk to make sense of it.. tried again this morning and it's not any clearer... damn..

So.. if you are setting up a buy/sell.. it should be in the for sale section.. i can move it.

if you want to have a discussion about X vs Y then fine.. it can be here.. but man i'm confused.. maybe after a cup of coffee..

Let's call it a "feeler" thread, for a while...
Once all the particulars are worked out, then we can move it to the for sale section, if you so wish..
(There is still some figuring out of shipping size/costs/boxes/etc before we confirm we can go ahead with pooling everyone together)

[sangesf]

It ultimately looks like $17.93 per cell for quantity 500 to me, let's call it $18.. Or $9,000
It's $1,908 for shipping to me.. (500+ Lbs! Of Cells!)

Sub Total(1) of $10,908...

Since it's all being done Paypal (and I don't want to pay for the fees to collect) I will have to add 3% (fees are actually 2.9%+.30c) or $327.24 to the order, let's call it $327.

$10,908 ST1 + $327 (PPF) or
Sub Total(2) of $11,235...

($11,235 / 500 cells = $22.47)
So for a per cell price of $22.47, let's call it $22.50, that's gonna be our price.
So for all those wanting cells, that's the price, per cell, to get them here in Florida.

Then we have to figure out the cost of shipping out to each perspective group buyer..
On Monday, I'll get the dimensions of the plastic cell containers (two cells per "container" as shown in the cell pics) - (Unless someone knows the exact dimensions already) to see if they will fit in Priority mail boxes..
If they don't, then parcel post it is..

Questions? Comments? Queries?

[ohzee]

That's pretty awesome. Makes me wonder how many I want to order for future projects.

[sangesf]

That's pretty awesome. Makes me wonder how many I want to order for future projects.

Just remember that didnt include the shipping from FL..
If you're picking up, then that's the only cost...

These are not exactly "light", they are about 1 lb. each..
12 = 12 lbs.
16 = 16 lbs.
Etc.

Priority Mail (Large) would work awesome if we could fit 12 cells per box. (6 pairs)..
I'm not sure when it comes to Parcel Post vs. Prio Mail which wins out (depending on weight/number of cells).
Time will soon tell...

[sangesf]

Once I figure out the exact best way to ship within the US, we'll have them move this to the for sale section and start confirming orders...

[sangesf]

I wanted to make something clear too.. (Just in case)
I noticed that some people are wanting "odd/weird" numbers of cells..
(like 13, 22, etc..)
Realize, these are LiFePo4 cells and are 3.3v nominal.. (Not the 3.7v of NMC or LiPo)
"Normal" configurations are usually based off of a 4-cell count..
(e.g. 12 = 36v, 16 = 48v, 20 = 60v, 24 = 72v, etc..)

And to re-iterate, these are bare cells.. For Chargers, BMSs, Interconnects, etc, we're on our own..
(i.e. They are not included in this buy... Need to find a way to connect them.. There are plenty of threads to look at, for that)

[999zip999]

People are getting one extra to be safe. Spare. And how do you plan on conneating them ?

[bigmoose]

Justin of ebikes.ca turned me on to DWOLLA for funds transfer. It takes a few days to set up the accounts but it was like $0.25 to transfer any amount. Does not have pay pal refund capability however.

Just checked DWOLLA:

With Dwolla, transactions under $10 are free and everything else is just 25 cents per transaction.

[sangesf]

Justin of ebikes.ca turned me on to DWOLLA for funds transfer. It takes a few days to set up the accounts but it was like $0.25 to transfer any amount. Does not have pay pal refund capability however.

Just checked DWOLLA:

With Dwolla, transactions under $10 are free and everything else is just 25 cents per transaction.

That's a big no-no in my book.. As well as everyone else, I'm sure..

[flathill]

Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a frocking big television, Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed- interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of frocking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing sprit- crushing game shows, stuffing frocking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing you last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked-up brats you have spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that?

[sangesf]

Moved to here..

Pics...!!!!
A.K.A. Cell Pron!

[gestalt]

Once I found out A123's headquarters was a ten minute bike ride from my house I took my bike down there and poked my head in the door. Standard office but with a nice little exhibit with pictures of EV's and one 20ah cell encased in clear resin in pristine glory. I just stared at it for some time, must have seemed weird.

[Ypedal]

Ok.. so this morning i get a whole wack of emails regarding Sangesf's picture being posted on this thread..... big upset.. sparks.. and a demand that someone get banned...

wtf..

My personal opinion, and i'm posting in this thread so that we can share opinions, if i'm wrong i'm wrong but here goes.

If someone wants to buy and sell 10,000 + $ worth of stuff on this forum, and is not willing to post a picture of himself, or devulge his personal name, spits fireballs anytime he's mildly upset, would i want to send money to such an individual on a DIY project that may require help, encounter problems and need co-operation ?.. etc. etc etc...

I've seen group buys go terribly wrong, and i've seen some go totally awsome, the difference is in the group runner... social vs anti-social makes a world of difference in times of " oh shit " .. and these things do happen..

think about it.

[sangesf]

Let's have a sharing of opinions then..

My opinion is...

A troll is a troll is a troll...

There is a time and place for everything..
What was done was wrong time, wrong place and for the wrong reason.

When a post starts with..
"Well I'm doing this to be a troll on purpose"
I feel it's a bit on the childish side, don't you think?

If anyone really wants my information, they can PM me and ask for it.
Easy.
Simple.

[LiFe]

If someone wants to buy and sell 10,000 + $ worth of stuff on this forum, and is not willing to post a picture of himself, or devulge his personal name, spits fireballs anytime he's mildly upset, would i want to send money to such an individual on a DIY project that may require help, encounter problems and need co-operation ?.. etc. etc etc...

I've seen group buys go terribly wrong, and i've seen some go totally awsome, the difference is in the group runner... social vs anti-social makes a world of difference in times of " oh shit " .. and these things do happen..

think about it.

Excellent summary.

Goldbrick comes to mind; he exhibited a similar narcissistic demeanor.

The best protection besides a documented paypal transaction, is not to.

[Harold in CR]

I don't give a flying rats ass what someone's opinion is regarding this thread. The man has a deal, to help ANYONE that is interested in saving some big $$$, by offering his TIME and that's worth a lot, to do this. It is a big undertaking, as seen by the guys that were screwed by Morrison and Kois. He is not asking for one cent, peso, Colonne, Franc, or any form of non-money.

I have NO dog in this hunt, re: Sangesf. I have Pm'ed him several times, and, he ALWAYS gets right back to me. Besides, I know about where he lives, and, it's only 1½ hour drive from where I go in Florida, IF I need to find him.

To anyone that has a problem with him, after the same type cells have been sketchy from OTHER suppliers, they need to man-girl up, and contact Sangesf. I can't stand people that hide behind a keyboard, using a faux name. Why not use your OWN name ??

Maybe his timing was a little off, by posting the same time as the NMC thread. I can remember several times someone offered a GOOD deal, and was kinda jumped on for not saying something just a FEW DAYS EARLIER.

Whoever posted about the photos needs to grow up. I personally can not wait to get a crack at these A123 cells at this price. Only wish I was able to buy 100 cells, rather than 12. I hope he gets this deal done, and, does it again, on a monthly or bi-monthy time frame. I would buy every time he does.

Might be a good idea to move this to the For Sale Board, even though it's NOT a SALE per se. It has certainly got enough peoples attention. GOOD ON YA, sangesf. Harold in CR and FLORIDA

[docnjoj]

I gotta agree with Harold on this one. Sangesf really seems to be trying to get us great cells at a great price. My only problem is trying to figure out how to connect those darn cells. If there was a straightforward way of doing that, I would pull the Paypal trigger in a heartbeat.
otherDoc