Arlo has another build ;) 06 BWS 50 (zuma) Hybrid! IT RUNS!

[parabellum]

Your stator, is a gen of one ICE motorcycle/scooter in previous life?

[Arlo1]

Your stator, is a gen of one ICE motorcycle/scooter in previous life?

Yes its a motorcycle stator from a charging system!! All i need is ~1-2 hp it will just be nice to know it can be a bit more!

[parabellum]

This one is easily 1st place candidate for production scooter (plug in) hybrid upgrade kit.

[Arlo1]

This one is easily 1st place candidate for production scooter (plug in) hybrid upgrade kit.

Yeh the problem is i just found a random stator that looked good and i have no idea what its out of.... Maybe a 80's or 90's sport bike its a 3 phase ac so it had a seprate vr sensor for timing.

[Arlo1]

Just a quick up date. I hope to get this thing running this weekend then spend the next month working out the bugs.

[Arlo1]

Just got the stator mounted in the cover and went for a ride just on GAS power to see if the drag was noticeable and its not.... And that's with somewhat shorted windings they measure 0ohm to ground.... I got a couple tests with my oscilloscope too to see what the current kv is so I can count how many turns to rewind it with.

[Arlo1]

Couple more

[Arlo1]

I went for a couple test rides today just on the gas power and with an unwound stator. I cut the horizontal end lamination's off and found it helped reduce drag but when I went for a longer ride it got very hot. So I pulled the whole stator apart and I painted one side of the lams with hi heat paint but I talked to a local dude who re-winds AC motors and he has some electrically insinuative paint I can coat them with so soon....

[Farfle]

Nice work on the motor man! looking at your pictures Its kinda eerie how similar your lathe/shop setup is to mine.

[Arlo1]

Got some nomex paper coming. And I got a free can of electrically insulate paint from one of the kids fathers (just so happens he rewinds motors for a living) who I volunteer with on Tuesday nights.
This stuff looks like it has a lot of good potential.

[Teh Stork]

Arlo, nice work so far - but I see a major issue with the configuration you've chosen. The clutch bell produces vast amounts of heat! It definitely reached 200-300degC in my application (your magnets will be toast). During dragracing I killed a few before I added cooling fins to mine.

Stroked, ported, every possible mod - and after dynoing for countless hours - mine did 0-80 kph in just over 4 seconds. Would definitely like to revisit this with my newfound knowledge in C, microcontrollers, and ebike possibillities. Having a hybrid would be fun ^^,

[Arlo1]

Arlo, nice work so far - but I see a major issue with the configuration you've chosen. The clutch bell produces vast amounts of heat! It definitely reached 200-300degC in my application (your magnets will be toast). During dragracing I killed a few before I added cooling fins to mine.

Stroked, ported, every possible mod - and after dynoing for countless hours - mine did 0-80 kph in just over 4 seconds. Would definitely like to revisit this with my newfound knowledge in C, micro controllers, and ebike possibilities. Having a hybrid would be fun ^^,

I have spent countless hours setting these up as well I do about 2-5 bigbores a year and thats boring to me. With chantal's scooter I kept the clutch engagement at a low rpm yes it makes is slower off the line but in turn keeps it cool as a cucumber and it lasts longer! The goal its to keep the gas engine a 49cc and use the electricity to make it faster. Once I figure this out. I am willing to bet this will be capable of beating your modded scoot. But for chantals daily use it will be de-tuned a bit The nice thing with this is I can crank it up for a few races then turn it back down with a few key strokes and it will last almost forever!

[Teh Stork]

Arlo, nice work so far - but I see a major issue with the configuration you've chosen. The clutch bell produces vast amounts of heat! It definitely reached 200-300degC in my application (your magnets will be toast). During dragracing I killed a few before I added cooling fins to mine.

Stroked, ported, every possible mod - and after dynoing for countless hours - mine did 0-80 kph in just over 4 seconds. Would definitely like to revisit this with my newfound knowledge in C, micro controllers, and ebike possibilities. Having a hybrid would be fun ^^,

I have spent countless hours setting these up as well I do about 2-5 bigbores a year and thats boring to me. With chantal's scooter I kept the clutch engagement at a low rpm yes it makes is slower off the line but in turn keeps it cool as a cucumber and it lasts longer! The goal its to keep the gas engine a 49cc and use the electricity to make it faster. Once I figure this out. I am willing to bet this will be capable of beating your modded scoot. But for chantals daily use it will be de-tuned a bit The nice thing with this is I can crank it up for a few races then turn it back down with a few key strokes and it will last almost forever!

Well, you would have to match 13kW wheel power, good luck with that! I do not have mine anymore, rediculous cost pr km driven. Sulking in 1,2L gasoline pr 10km :S And the maintenance, not going back in some good time

[johnrobholmes]

I have wanted to do this type of project for a long time! Awesome job! You could have your starting motor, assist motor, TCI, and brake all in one on the right bike!

[Arlo1]

I have wanted to do this type of project for a long time! Awesome job! You could have your starting motor, assist motor, TCI, and brake all in one on the right bike!

Thanks man. Honda has had a scooter out for a long time that uses the stator as a brushless motor to start the bike. The rukus is one of them!

[Arlo1]

Arlo, nice work so far - but I see a major issue with the configuration you've chosen. The clutch bell produces vast amounts of heat! It definitely reached 200-300degC in my application (your magnets will be toast). During dragracing I killed a few before I added cooling fins to mine.

Stroked, ported, every possible mod - and after dynoing for countless hours - mine did 0-80 kph in just over 4 seconds. Would definitely like to revisit this with my newfound knowledge in C, micro controllers, and ebike possibilities. Having a hybrid would be fun ^^,

I have spent countless hours setting these up as well I do about 2-5 bigbores a year and thats boring to me. With chantal's scooter I kept the clutch engagement at a low rpm yes it makes is slower off the line but in turn keeps it cool as a cucumber and it lasts longer! The goal its to keep the gas engine a 49cc and use the electricity to make it faster. Once I figure this out. I am willing to bet this will be capable of beating your modded scoot. But for chantals daily use it will be de-tuned a bit The nice thing with this is I can crank it up for a few races then turn it back down with a few key strokes and it will last almost forever!

Well, you would have to match 13kW wheel power, good luck with that! I do not have mine anymore, rediculous cost pr km driven. Sulking in 1,2L gasoline pr 10km :S And the maintenance, not going back in some good time

I will need to see dyno sheets but the thing with electric is full torque from 0 rpm so i will not need 13.5 kw to win!

[zEEz]

great soldering on that alu sidecover, Arlo!
my respect!

have fun!

[bigmoose]

Arlo I really have enjoyed this thread! Great creativity and design. Looking at your TIG ability, you could be manufacturing all those do dads for the racing community from Al diamond plate... surge tanks, tool boxes, etc. You should think up some Al battery boxes, if you have a shear and a brake to go with the TIG.

Good luck on your many projects!

[Arlo1]

IM sad to say I didn't actually tig weld it my self... I really really wanted to. But I don't own a tig yet and I was going to use my bosses welder and he figured spool gun would be best. Thing with my boss he knows Im really good at most things, but he is really hands on so he thinks of everything as he is working on it. If he was not at the shop I would have done all the welding. So then I went to the shop two over from my shop and talked to Herb and he got his son to weld it for me they are excited for it too they are just trading labour with me, But I do have access to a lot of sweet tools. I own some too. If I see a demand for something I will try to fab it up. I would be glad to help any fellow e-bikers. As for battery boxes.... Maybe. Its hard to make something that looks good like my brothers bike which has one that kinda looks like a mail box but if the lipo ever has a problem it is a good layer of aluminum added to the safty!

[Arlo1]

So I made a little progress. I coated all of one side of the lamination's last week before getting out of town for a small trip to the ski hill. I coated the other side tonight and stacked them and clamped them with 3 C-clamps. The goal is for the wet paint on one lam to bond to the dry pain on the adjacent lam. I am not worried about increasing the thickness in-between them just want to make sure the are electrically isolated because it will be spinning at 12,600 rpm at 110 km/h and the average speed will be around 1/2 that with a stretch at about 90km/h I am planing for it to be able to cruise at 90km and 110 for a max. This will give a pretty hi surface speed from magnets to lams. I will order higher temp mags if needed. But first I need to reduce the eddy currents! Because wasted heat is just a loss of power from the gas motor when its not being driven as a hybrid.... I am hoping this works and really hope I don't have to build a iron-less stator... Should know this weekend.

[Arlo1]

SO I made some more progress tonight. I got the stator installed and went for a ride then reved it past the normal rpm of ridding it and I could still hold my hand on the cover so it was better because last time I could not and It would boil spit!!! So it measured 60 deg c on the cover and 80 deg c inside.... I would like to reduce it more... Now I am really thinking I want to build a iron-less stator! Hmmmm I am also looking at custom lams. The set i have now mesure .025" so thinner would be better. And well if I get a 3/4" stack coming I could maybe get more?? And make a bigger motor for some other project?? hummm.

[Arlo1]

OK so I have an email into proto lam. I might call them later. What I read is your eddy currents go up at a square of the thickness of the lams. So if you double the lam thickness you get 4x the heat. I think .2mm lams are doable and mine measure .64mm (.025" x 25.4=.635mm) So safe to say 3 times thinner. What I have read .2mm is something others have done for hi rpm with out getting to expensive. 3x thinner should be 9x less heat. I would say at 70km/h I am getting ~200 watts of heat thats just a guess but I am imagining my 80watt soldering iron and how long it would take to heat up this stator. Now 70 is not the goal speed but the gear up kit I have will add 20% speed with the same rpm at the electric motor. So 84 km/h would be the same heat as now and with lams 3x thinner is should be 9x less heat from eddy losses. So 200/9=22.2 watts. And this looks good so depending on the price I will order a stack of them. She needs a cruise speed at ~80-90 for about 3-10 minutes at a time. Then the rest is ~50-60 km/h. I read that the Heat from the eddy currents also increases at the square of the rpm. So cruising at 45 instead of 90 is 4 times less heat! I think with the current stator it would be good up to ~70 km/h with the up-gear kit installed. So I think I will test a little more then move forward. And wind the current stator. And see if I can get it running. While I order new lams to make it more efficient for the summer.

[Arlo1]

OK So I think I will make a cast stator.... I am realy thinking about casting the windings right into the iron filled epoxy!

[Arlo1]

Just tried centering the stator a little better. And went for a good ride. Still unwound but the lams are getting to hot. I got back and put my hand on the cover and it was not bad not to hot to hold my hand on. So I took the cover off and measured what I could with my laze temp gun and the stator was still at 90degC in a spot. The rotor was at 65 degC SO I need it cooler. This might just be ok once I install the up gear kit it will reduce rpm of the rotor 20% which should be 44% less heat at the same speed. So It will only get hot for about 1/2 her ride to work. I am going to order some iron powder and make a stator and in the meanwhile I will wind this one once my nomex paper comes in. And install the up gear kit.

[Arlo1]

Just did some tests. And with 10 turns a tooth on this stator I get 188 k/v So at 84v that's 15792 rpm. Now the down side is I need about 12600 rpm for 110km top speed. I will likely have to wind it for ~90-100 with this stator. Because with 10 turns I get to low inductance. I will also wind external inductors in the phase wires so the controller has a chance. I will be using a 12 fet to start with then I will build a better controller with a dspic30f and I will try the SMC stator at the same time.