Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.

Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby avantgarden » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:52 am

Hello Everybody,

This is my first post here.
Wonderful forum you've got yourself :-)

I recently bought the Golden motor 48v Magic pie motor and LiFePo4 lithium battery and I love it.
It's green and...its mean !

It came with the HP8204L3 charger.
I need to buy another charger.
The original charger has a label "Output : 58.4 v"
I measured the output of the charger (with no load) and it is about 48v.
Which charger do I need ? 58.4v or 48v ?
There are some chargers on eBay but they either have plastic cases like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-3A-Charger- ... 2a19b3b317

or they are metal but are smaller in size than the original. For example this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120W-24V-36V-48 ... 2048839312

This is the original one which costs more than 100$.
http://www.alienbikes.co.uk/USERIMAGES/ ... HARGER.JPG

How do I know the charger I'm buying is the right one for for my battery ?
Any specific recommendations ?
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby nebriancent » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:54 am

the first thing you need to know about any charging system is what it is charging....(the battery)
so what we need to know to answer your question is 4 things
1 battery chem (lifepo4)
2 battery amp hrs
3 battery charging c rating
4 amount of cells in serries

without all of this information any answer givin could potentialy harm and or cause perminent damage to said battery

the information needed should be easy to obtain from any reputable battery seller (must be info from the place you bought the battery)

sooo fil us in and we can help you out
if at first you don't succeed...dont force it just grab a bigger hammer

back to my gm 901 for now 26"
modified infineon ebikes.ca 40-100a 36-72v controller w/ cruise http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37068
4s 14p liMn (doc makita pack) and headway 2p 10s in serries
cycle anylist 2.3
top end on flat is about 48kmh hot off the charge
range >40km
best distance in a single charge about 75km
xvision front light. led marker light rear w/ limiting resistor for tail/stop operation
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby dogman » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:06 am

Either of those chargers should work for you.

Basicly, you need a "48v" charger for lithium battery. Outputs vary, but it should not be much under 56v. 60v max. Not more than 5 amps.

If you don't like Ebay, try a place like batteryspace.

Edit,, If you are in the UK, then maybe ebay is better. Batteryspace is a US company.
THE LIPO RULES. NEVER ABOVE 4.3V NEVER BELOW 2.7V DON'T PUNCTURE

Ideal charging /discharging range for Lipo, 3.65v minimum 4.1v maximum

See battery technology section, FAQ thread at the top of the page for lipo noob info.
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby avantgarden » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:18 am

I have LifePo4 48V/10AH
It has the standard casing : http://www.alienbikes.co.uk/USERIMAGES/ ... 20KEYS.JPG
Not sure how many cells fit in there...
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby chroot » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:39 pm

You can try BMS battery charger 400 watt for cheap bang for the buck and 48v 6 amp set to 58.4v (3.65v per cell for LiFePo4).

Currently, They are on sale right now for 37 dollars and here the link alloy-shell-400w-lifepo4li-ionlead-acid-battery-ebike-charger

48v usually have 16 cells

@Dogman - 6amp is fine as long as the BMS board limited up to 7 amp maximum (Ping Li told me).
Thank you Justin Lemire-Elmore - You are a HERO!

Tidalforce, Yuba Mundo V4 Cargo bike, Juiced Riders ODK V1 Cargo bike
English is my secondary language - ASL (American Sign Language) is my primary.
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby dnmun » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:55 pm

put it on the battery and start charging. measure the voltage of the pack while on the charger. you do not have a lifepo4 pack and the 48V or 58.4V is meaningless.

post up a picture of your pack, count the number of cells. show us a picture of the BMS, and picture of the voltmeter while attached to the pack while on the charger.
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby nebriancent » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:07 pm

just like i said we need just a bit more to go on
if at first you don't succeed...dont force it just grab a bigger hammer

back to my gm 901 for now 26"
modified infineon ebikes.ca 40-100a 36-72v controller w/ cruise http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37068
4s 14p liMn (doc makita pack) and headway 2p 10s in serries
cycle anylist 2.3
top end on flat is about 48kmh hot off the charge
range >40km
best distance in a single charge about 75km
xvision front light. led marker light rear w/ limiting resistor for tail/stop operation
User avatar
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby avantgarden » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:06 pm

Attached are pictures of my battery pack. As you can see there are 16 cells.
In the second picture you can see that peeling the blue plastic reveals a metal case on each cell.
Looks like a lifepo4 cell, isn't it ?

Output voltage of the battery during charging went from 48v (Empty Battery) to 57.5v (full battery).

Charging time is not a factor for me since I have 8 hours to charge my battery when I'm at work.
So the slower the better for the battery, right ?
A 3A charger should be enough then in my case...

Bottom line:
I think I'm getting the picture now...
"48v" is a type of Battery. Actual voltage varies based on the energy stored in the Battery. Higher energy => Greater voltage.
I think I'll buy me the 3A 58.4v !
I'll purchase something like this one (It is 3A, has metal case and will cost me only 46$ including shipping). Note that I don't live in the US so I don't have too many choices.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320848370289?ss ... 1438.l2649

Am I on the right track ?
Attachments
all2.jpg
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby avantgarden » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:09 pm

Here is a closeup of a peeled cell.
Attachments
cell2.jpg
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby dnmun » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:16 pm

ok, you have a 16S lifepo4 pack. the charger should be able to charge up to 58.4V and up to 60 is used on the ping chargers.

while it is open, take a close up picture of the BMS so we know which one you have. see if there is a big integrated circuit in the middle of it with 64 pins around the perimeter, and OZ590 for the label.
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby avantgarden » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:51 pm

Dnmun,
I don't have the bike with me for the weekend.
Why do you need to know BMS values ? Please refer to what I wrote:
"Charging time is not a factor for me since I have 8 hours to charge my battery when I'm at work.
So the slower the better for the battery, right ?
A 3A charger should be enough then in my case..."
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby dnmun » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:59 pm

while you have it open, measure all the cell voltages and write them down when it is balanced. keep track of that so you can tell what the original balanced voltages are to make it easier to diagnose the problem your pack has later.

i wondered who made this pack and the type of BMS is the clue, but in reality, i cannot imagine not needing to know. it seems like curiosity is what makes us more than rocks.
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby avantgarden » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:23 pm

I'm an Electronics Engineer but I kind of lost you...
1. You mean to say that over time the balance gets lost ? Explain that... Does this mean that the total voltage gets lower ?
2. How are the 16 cells arranged ? Parallel ? serially ? Both ?
Do you have any drawings ?
3. When you say measure the cells, you mean each one independently taken of the circuit , right ?
4. The slower the charge rate the more it is healthy to the battery, right ?

I don't have the bike with me no and I'm curious.
Please try to answer my questions as the thread is developing. Otherwise we'll make no progress. I'm a newbie to this world but I'm a fast learner :-)
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby dnmun » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:57 pm

yes. the BMS will balance the cells to a voltage established by the resistor divider bridge on the analog type of BMS like the ping signalab or the others from BMS battery.

if you have the O2 micro for the processor, then it has internal voltage references established digitally, and the processor runs off the high end of the pack, along with having the TVS to protect the processor in case someone reverses polarity on the input to the pack, with a charger. but it has a longer hysteresis when the cells go to the high limit HVC during charging, so they have more trouble balancing, and the shunt current is lower too.

if you have problems later, you will have the current set of voltages that the BMS balances the cells to so if you have problems later, you can compare the balanced voltages then to these setpoints.
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby pradana » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:40 am

I had the same battery as discussed above, the charger and the battery exactly like the picture shown above, but my battery cant be charged again, I do not know what's wrong, but that obviously I got it about 4 months ago, I have check voltage battery now remaining 30 v, the voltage coming out of the charger 57 v, I need help to solve this problem
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby dnmun » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:45 am

pradana wrote:I had the same battery as discussed above, the charger and the battery exactly like the picture shown above, but my battery cant be charged again, I do not know what's wrong, but that obviously I got it about 4 months ago, I have check voltage battery now remaining 30 v, the voltage coming out of the charger 57 v, I need help to solve this problem


you can start your own thread but to diagnose it you need to open the battery so you can get access to the BMS sense wires so you can measure the cell voltages while charging.

but first verify the fuse in the end of the battery is still intact. verify electrically with the ohmeter on your DVM. then verify that the charger voltage gets inside the case to the battery itself.

then you can put it on the charger and let it charge up and when it goes to green then measure all the cell voltages, while charging.
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby pradana » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:02 am

I've make sure the voltage of the battery charger can go, it's just that there is no current flowing
and I make sure the charger is normal. when I try with another battery everything was fine.
whether bms troubled or problematic there anything else on my battery?
I actually want to try to enter the output voltage of the charger to the output batteries, whether it's possible to do?
and what can I do to fix my battery?
can lion battery be used without bms like other batteries that are not lion?
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby dnmun » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:54 am

since you are still on his thread, you need to provide us with proof you have the same battery as you stated above.

post up pictures of the cells inside and a picture of the BMS and the charger too.

do you have a voltmeter or use some other device?
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby pradana » Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:19 am

here the pictures of my battery
Im sorry if Im not good in english
thanks
Attachments
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby dnmun » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:38 am

on the end of the battery under that cardboard shield is the BMS. you wanna get access to that so you can measure the voltages of the individual cells at the sense wire plug on the BMS. you can post up a picture of it so we can explain more then, but you need a voltmeter to measure the cell voltages while the battery is charging.
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby pradana » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:01 am

after I open all the existing socket and I plug back. finally my battery can function as well
thanks alot for your help :wink:
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Re: Charger for Golden motor 48v LiFePo4 lithium battery

Postby 999zip999 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:35 pm

Well done Dnmum.
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