Got Gas.

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Got Gas.

Postby Drunkskunk » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:02 pm

No beans involved! :D I picked up a nice ICE stinker this week. A 2 stroke 50cc Honda MB5. Its a 7hp, or 5250 watt bike capable of 60mph. Lots of fun!

For a motorbike, its extreamly light weight. 149lbs empty. But looking it over more carefully, Its clear that anyone building a bicycle to do 60mph needs to re-think things. That being me. I'm also welding up a frame for a 60mph Ebike. The MB5 is built to handle speed. the frame is heavy guage steel, triangulated for stiffness. larger bearings and axles to handle higher forces at speed. Larger, thicker brakes to scrub off the extra kenetic energy. stronger rims to handle bumps and hitting potholes at speed. Headlights, brake lights, and turn signals so people actualy see you.

As a motorbike, this is the bare minimum of what a motorbike needs to handle speed. They can't even legaly make motorbikes like this now, its too light weight and doesn't meet current DOT rules. Too fast for a moped, too slow for the highway, too lightweight to be safe. But compared to what I'm building for an Ebike, this thing is a heavy weight monster.

Granted, My ebike won't be built to go 60mph often. But after seeing this bike close up, its clear that any bike built to handle high speeds needs to be stronger than a bicycle.


(Not my bike, but same model)
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby dogman » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:09 pm

Exactly my thoughts as I almost made the 50 mph club on the DR bike. Brake limitations, but tire limitations too. Scary to look at the shredded cord inside that tire when you take it off after race day. I could see just how right on the sane limits I was. 40 wasn't so bad, but 47 was quite past the line for that particular build. Other bikes would be comfy at 50 mph, the frame wasn't the problem though, it was everything else.

Nothing wrong with a bike built like the mb5 though. 8) Lots of us really need to weld, or pay somebody to weld.

Once you build it, the problem of where to ride it remains, unless you live near the track, or in CR.
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby gogo » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:23 pm

Amen. There's a reason commercial ware meant for 60 MPH weighs as much as it does and why you'll never see radial spoking from an MC factory. When things break at 60 MPH, things get ugly.

+1 for grafting superfluous pedals onto a small motorcycle chassis and and letting go of the idea of pedaling while wearing abrasion protection and a full face helmet.
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby johnrobholmes » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:46 pm

We have a couple of mb5's in the local moped chapter. Nice little bikes actually!

There is a reason I have been lacing up 17"s onto bikes for years now. My mopeds always felt safer with the substantial tires!
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby dnmun » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:30 pm

elegant design, that bike looked like it was restored to connoisseur class.

mr honda really did inspire a whole new level of design and functionality and performance into his engineering design groups all the way up to the hybrid IMA system. the only production CNG powered vehicle in the civic. always ahead of the game.
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby neptronix » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:48 pm

Look at all that battery space available if you remove the engine :)
This is the most bicycle looking motorcycle i've ever seen. Some new downhill bikes have more travel than that. With that weight, it would be a great conversion target.
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The all-arounder: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The girlfriend bike: 350W front MAC on a 700c Trek.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB
The Bus: ??? on a 'da bomb' cargo bike frame

Pro-tips for noobs: Avoid BMS Battery like the plague | Charge RC Lipos to 4.15v, stop discharging at 3.5-3.6v | Use torque plates/arms! | Rear mounted hubs are always best
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby Drunkskunk » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:39 pm

And it's half hallow under the tank, the oil tank hides under the gas tank, and the gas tank extends back under the seat. And the seat is thick enough to smuggle a few kilos of.. Well, I have my starter battery burried in the seat foam . Lots of room all over.

I'm keeping this one gas, though. these 10,500 rpm Elsinore engines are just too much fun.
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby dogman » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:22 pm

Oh yeah, I wouldn't remove that engine till it dies.
THE LIPO RULES. NEVER ABOVE 4.3V NEVER BELOW 2.7V DON'T PUNCTURE

Ideal charging /discharging range for Lipo, 3.65v minimum 4.1v maximum

See battery technology section, FAQ thread at the top of the page for lipo noob info.
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby neptronix » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:35 pm

Bummer you're gonna keep the gasser, that thing has gotta be stinkier than a 20 year old dodge caravan with a blown head gasket and dead catalytic converter. 2 strokes are awful and you've got a perfect electric platform on your hands, just sayin..
ES facebook group: http://facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_125035107565566&ap=1

The all-arounder: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The girlfriend bike: 350W front MAC on a 700c Trek.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB
The Bus: ??? on a 'da bomb' cargo bike frame

Pro-tips for noobs: Avoid BMS Battery like the plague | Charge RC Lipos to 4.15v, stop discharging at 3.5-3.6v | Use torque plates/arms! | Rear mounted hubs are always best
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby StudEbiker » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:52 pm

neptronix wrote:Bummer you're gonna keep the gasser, that thing has gotta be stinkier than a 20 year old dodge caravan with a blown head gasket and dead catalytic converter. 2 strokes are awful and you've got a perfect electric platform on your hands, just sayin..



Yeah, but at least it will keep the mosquitoes away this summer. :lol:
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby EVInfinity » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:38 pm

Bummer you're gonna keep the gasser, that thing has gotta be stinkier than a 20 year old dodge caravan with a blown head gasket and dead catalytic converter. 2 strokes are awful and you've got a perfect electric platform on your hands, just sayin..


Come on, 2 strokes are brilliant, much less complex than any 4 stroke, with a much better power to weight ratio, and 2 times the banging :lol:
That smell is freedom, reminds me of cottage country.

BTW, beautiful bike, I'm all for electric, but you can't kill a classic in a state like that, it would be sacrilegious .
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby neptronix » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:58 pm

The motor is great on it's own, but even a 50CC 2 stroke will put out more poisonous uncatalyzed combustion gasses and unburnt fuel than something like a hummer cruising along would, and stinks worse than a school bus. Add burning oil to the mix and the emissions get even worse.

Don't care how wonderful the motor is, they're inefficient compared to a 4 stroke, and noxious.. people like your fellow electric bicyclists get to breathe that shit in. That's not fair.
ES facebook group: http://facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_125035107565566&ap=1

The all-arounder: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The girlfriend bike: 350W front MAC on a 700c Trek.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB
The Bus: ??? on a 'da bomb' cargo bike frame

Pro-tips for noobs: Avoid BMS Battery like the plague | Charge RC Lipos to 4.15v, stop discharging at 3.5-3.6v | Use torque plates/arms! | Rear mounted hubs are always best
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby def215 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:00 pm

god thats a good looking bike. im not gonna hate on the ICE, even though prices are close to $4/gallon in my neck of the woods.

id love to get a moped but im torn on pulling the trigger because i want to build another ebike. maybe ill build a hybrid. :wink: :twisted:

EVInfinity wrote:BTW, beautiful bike, I'm all for electric, but you can't kill a classic in a state like that, it would be sacrilegious .


i totally agree. im for the electrics, but im not gonna discriminate on anything that makes power and are a whole lot of fun. :mrgreen:

theres nothing like a 2-stroke screaming at max rpm
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby Hillhater » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:41 am

neptronix wrote:........ even a 50CC 2 stroke will put out more poisonous uncatalyzed combustion gasses and unburnt fuel than something like a hummer cruising along would, and stinks worse than a school bus..


you are obviously not familiar with the current generation of DI 2 strokes. :wink:
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby dogman » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:01 am

Like they'd notice a smell in Texas. :wink: Even if you have a no wind day, you'd be riding past a refinery every 10 miles.
THE LIPO RULES. NEVER ABOVE 4.3V NEVER BELOW 2.7V DON'T PUNCTURE

Ideal charging /discharging range for Lipo, 3.65v minimum 4.1v maximum

See battery technology section, FAQ thread at the top of the page for lipo noob info.
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby John in CR » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:05 pm

EVInfinity wrote:.... I'm all for electric, but you can't kill a classic in a state like that, it would be sacrilegious .


I'd take my angle grinder and cut the front end off just behind the headset and use that. The rest I can definitely do stronger and lighter as well as kick the s$%t out of leaving a red light, because that shift to second will get you every time. You need a power ebike in a big way if you think a 150lb 50cc stinker is fun. :mrgreen:

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Re: Got Gas.

Postby neptronix » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:17 am

Hillhater wrote:
neptronix wrote:........ even a 50CC 2 stroke will put out more poisonous uncatalyzed combustion gasses and unburnt fuel than something like a hummer cruising along would, and stinks worse than a school bus..


you are obviously not familiar with the current generation of DI 2 strokes. :wink:


1980's Japanese 2 stroke.. not direct injected.. ;)

Yes, i'm aware.. DI can clean up & improve the efficiency of a 2 stroke pretty good, but... it's even better on a 4 stroke. Higher efficiency, higher power, and no catalytic converter really needed.. just sayin ;]

That's how Hyundai motors get their magic..

Really, how common are 2 stroke DI though..
ES facebook group: http://facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_125035107565566&ap=1

The all-arounder: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The girlfriend bike: 350W front MAC on a 700c Trek.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB
The Bus: ??? on a 'da bomb' cargo bike frame

Pro-tips for noobs: Avoid BMS Battery like the plague | Charge RC Lipos to 4.15v, stop discharging at 3.5-3.6v | Use torque plates/arms! | Rear mounted hubs are always best
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby EVInfinity » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:07 am

John in CR wrote:
EVInfinity wrote:.... I'm all for electric, but you can't kill a classic in a state like that, it would be sacrilegious .


I'd take my angle grinder and cut the front end off just behind the headset and use that. The rest I can definitely do stronger and lighter as well as kick the s$%t out of leaving a red light, because that shift to second will get you every time. You need a power ebike in a big way if you think a 150lb 50cc stinker is fun. :mrgreen:

John


Lol, nice. no doubt, it's a little 50cc for christ's sake. My gio at 20s and 45A (16" wheel) would probably even beat the thing. Something like that isn't about the power, it's about the beauty, and keeping the old alive. Nothing like a 2 stroke, hit that power band and your gone.
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby Hillhater » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:25 pm

neptronix wrote: ...Really, how common are 2 stroke DI though..


They are very common....

Many of the 50cc scoots are DI 2 strokes..
http://www.motorstv.com/test/bike/april ... et-100-4-t
Many of the new marine OB motors are DI 2 strokes..eg
http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/ou ... t/optimax/

Snow scoots, and jetski's are returning to 2 stroke with DI in order to reduce weight and comply with emission regs without sapping power.
http://twostrokemotocross.com/2010/04/d ... r-in-2012/

..and how about a DI 2stroke range extender for EV's ..?
http://www.slideshare.net/pierreduret/2 ... e-extender

And of course there is also the Worlds biggest engine , which is a DI 2Stroke !... (diesel !)
The Emma Maersk’s Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C turbocharged two-stroke diesel ship engine is the most powerful and most efficient prime-mover of super ships in the world today.

http://gcaptain.com/emma-maersk-engine/?506
Image

And finally, the most brilliant engine ( IMHO) ever, the 18 cyl, 32 piston, Napier Deltic, is a DI 2Stroke !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Deltic
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby dogman » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:59 am

In any case, riding that thing as is will be quite fun enough to justify leaving it alone at least till the engine fails. It's a no brainer to ride it awhile.
THE LIPO RULES. NEVER ABOVE 4.3V NEVER BELOW 2.7V DON'T PUNCTURE

Ideal charging /discharging range for Lipo, 3.65v minimum 4.1v maximum

See battery technology section, FAQ thread at the top of the page for lipo noob info.
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby dkw12002 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:03 pm

Great looking bike. My first motorcycle was a 1974 2-stroke Suzuki TS 185. Wish I still had it. Weird though, I don't remember ever adding oil to it. Those light, powerful bikes are as fun as it gets. Brings up a Zen riddle: Is there really any polution if you are always moving forward?
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Re: Got Gas.

Postby dkw12002 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:28 pm

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