Aprilia Enjoy

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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby tonyontopofabighill » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:48 am

Thanks HH and Samd,

I'll give it a go in the next couple of days.

Thanks,
Tony
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby tonyontopofabighill » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:24 am

HI All,

Houston, we have a problem.
I went for a slightly longer ride this morning.It was about 15 klms with pedalling and a bit of bludging but lots of hills.I think I recall seeing the voltage whilst coming up my big hill go down to 28 volts.When I got home I let it cool down and set about connecting up the 3 pin charger lead from the old Aprilia charger.I put in another bullet connector to the Positive side of the battery and another bullet connector to the Negative side of the battery did the same to the 2 pin connector.I did this so I could disconnect this lead when splitting the pack to do a balance charge.I disregarded the third pin on the lead.II put another fuse inline from the accucel 8 lead that connects to the lipo batteries.I was pretty happy with the job until I connected it all up and then plugged in the new 2 pin lead to the lipos.When I turned the power supply on , the blue screen came up on the accucel as per normal and then I put in lipo charge and then I noticed that the Accucel was only detecting 7SER instead of 8SER.It was showing up 8SER on my side of the screen.Obviously I did not hit the enter button to start charging but turned it all off to check things??????? I decided to disconnect one of the batteries and just have the one connected.This made no difference to the reading.I then disconnected that battery and connected the other one,still no change.I then connected the balance leads and tried a balance charge to both batteries but same thing????
I decided to undo what I had done with the 2 plug lead and go back to the original alligator clips and that made no change either.I had a look at the manual and it said something to the effect that if the battery has been discharged quite a bit then the Accucel can sometimes make an error in it's cell count?

What do you guys make of this? Hopefully it is a simple problem.Surely I haven't ruined a cell on each of my two batteries.

HELP

Tony.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby Samd » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:47 pm

Hmm, not sure what to think.

I never go below 29.7 volts, thats when the batteries begin to cop a beating. They say 3.3 volts per cell (26.4) is when you really get problems.

Have you put a multimeter over each the batteries to see what their resting voltage is now? If its ok then your charger is confused.

I think there is stuff in the manual to show what to do when the charger picks the wrong voltage. Do you have the manual - do you need a link to an online one?

Cheers.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby tonyontopofabighill » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:30 pm

G'day Sam,

Thanks for replying mate.I just put the battery into the bike to check the voltage with the voltmeter in the bike.I did it twice with each battery connected separately.Both packs are reading 29.8 Volts.Remember I didn't charge them when I got home yesterday from the ride.Is that good news? That would mean that there is 8 cells at about 3.7Volts a piece? I have got a manual but will read again to find what you mentioned.
What would happen if I ignored the 7SER versus my 8SER and pressed the start button? I am not about to do that of course if it is not safe to do so.I have watched the videos of these things catching fire and the thought of 8 cells going off doesn't appeal much to my wanting to remain in one piece philosophy on life.If necessary I would rather buy 3 new batteries and have some more amps in reserve.

Thanks Sam,

Cheers,
Tony.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby Samd » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:41 pm

It's your call, you'll have to make your own decision.

I think you could effectively charge it as a "LiLo" battery which uses the same program but does everything 0.1volt per cell lower. Then you could go back to charging as a LiPo.

If it were me I would go into the 'user set program' screens and change the lipo voltage from 3.7V to 3.6V and restart the charge. I know some folks who charge this way all the time.

This might be enough to get it started as the 8s setting is looking for a minimum voltage that you are just a small whisker below. So I'd so a full bulk charge on each then a balance charge to see if any particular cell is 'RS' - but unlikely from your reasoning above in an earlier post.

If you are worried about 'letting the magic smoke out of them' perhaps set them up outside in a safe area free from moisture or heat risks.

Here's another thread I found that suggests charging them as 7s for a bit to get the voltage up, then go back to 8s:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=33499

It's a fair bet that if your packs are that low at rest you really did overdo it under load. You''ll need to gear back and climb that hill of yours a bit slower! But it's fair to assume that you didn't (maybe) go below 3.3V per cell, so there's a good chance you'll get back on track.

Here's the accucel "copy" charger I use:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _acc_.html
http://ballaratebikes.com/

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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby tonyontopofabighill » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:39 pm

Thanks Sam,

I have put it outside in a lipo fire bag with the smoke detector set just above it.I put it into LILO mode and it read it as 8SER so I hit the charge button and so far so good.I am just doing one battery at a time.I will let you know how I go.I think I remember reading that GT charges on the LILO setting.

Cheers,
Tony.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby tonyontopofabighill » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:42 pm

G'day Sam,

It all looks OK.I managed to get both packs charged up to 32.8V.I then put them individually onto a LILO balance charge and all the cells were between 4.07V and 4.10V but most were 4.09V.I did a quick LILO balance charge on each pack and they all ended up on 4.09V except for a 4.10V.So far it sounds like a good result.I then tried my new 2 pin charging lead and it is working as well! and showing 8SER on the left and the right doing a battery check.I will go for a ride tomorrow but just the shorter 6 Klm trip and take it a bit easier on the hill and I will watch the voltmeter on the way up the big hill.
I guess I have learnt some more about batteries and lipo's that is for sure.
Thanks again Sam.

Cheers,
Tony.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby Samd » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:29 pm

Thats great news.

Perhaps the contact on the two pin charger dropped a fraction of a volt off, enough to tip it low enough to look like a 7s pack.

Hey - if you think you've now got bulk charging and 'separate pack' balance charging under your belt, there is still a little to learn (as I just found out). Don't worry about this next bit if it's too soon. But I think it will save me a lot of time, cos I run three packs in parallel, and they are a bit of a pain to disconnect and balance charge in turn.

You can set up your pack to balance charge your whole pack without separating the cells first. I've just been researching this - didn't realise it. Makes good sense.

The way it works is that you balance each pack seperately (two or more) to get everything to about equal before connecting them up in parallel. This stops a sudden rush of current between cells when connecting the packs in parallel for the first time - see link below (you wouldn't connect a 50% charged pack with a 100% charged pack for instance). Then you connect the same pins of each of your balance cables. This means that if you have two packs, 'cell one' on each pack will equalise, 'cell two' will equalise, etc for each in turn. Then you reconnect and balance charge the whole unit.

So next time you go to balance charge, you only connect one balance cable. It'll take twice as long to balance charge for a 2 pack battery, but you won't have to disconnect separate packs anymore.

Think I am going to build a three into one balance harness that will allow me to bring one balance plug out of the battery box next to the 3 pin bulk charging plug, so I don't have to keep taking my box apart to balance charge every 6 weeks...
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/parallel ... rging.html

Hope this didn't confuse you...
http://ballaratebikes.com/

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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby tonyontopofabighill » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:37 am

G'day Sam,

I think I follow most of that.I think I also read that GT has his balance leads connected in parallel.Are you there GT???
I have been splitting my pack to do the balancing and I have to say that with the cordless scre driver it is 6 screws and it is apart ( I could get a job in the pits) but I do agree it is a pain to separate the pack so this sounds like another good idea of yours Sam.I think I will order the square battery pack soon so I will have the extra capacity.I just got another one of those little 12 Volt meters for my other bike to put into the old LED meter.This one is blue instead of red.I am also thinking that I would like to put in a Nu Vinci hub gear box down the track.I have had a few hassles with the Shimano gears and cassettes on both bikes as I have done a stack of clicks between both bikes.

Cheers,
Tony.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby gtadmin » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:15 am

Hi guys, been away on something else for a coupla days

tonyontopofabighill wrote:...
I think I remember reading that GT charges on the LILO setting.

Cheers,
Tony.

Yes, I only use the LiLo setting now - it extends the life of the pack if you only charge to 4.1V and discharge to 3.8V. Obviously, you need to have the battery capacity to stay within these limits.

G'day Sam,

I think I follow most of that.I think I also read that GT has his balance leads connected in parallel.Are you there GT???
I have been splitting my pack to do the balancing and I have to say that with the cordless scre driver it is 6 screws and it is apart ( I could get a job in the pits) but I do agree it is a pain to separate the pack so this sounds like another good idea of yours Sam.I think I will order the square battery pack soon so I will have the extra capacity.I just got another one of those little 12 Volt meters for my other bike to put into the old LED meter.This one is blue instead of red.I am also thinking that I would like to put in a Nu Vinci hub gear box down the track.I have had a few hassles with the Shimano gears and cassettes on both bikes as I have done a stack of clicks between both bikes.

Cheers,
Tony.

I'm here now :) I read Sam's and then this and went "huh???" I have only once separated my pack to charge (whether a balance or bulk) and that was when I left the CellLogs connected for an extended period which threw my pack way out of balance.

Once you have the discharge leads connected in parallel and all the balance leads in parallel, you just treat it as one, BIG battery :) This is a piccie of the battery setup for my cruiser - about the middle of the first piccie you can see how I've paralleled the balance leads

Glad you recovered your pack

GT
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby tonyontopofabighill » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:15 am

G'day GT,

I had a look at your bike on the link.

GEEZ!,STREWTH!!!!.That is one very impressive machine GT and all that wiring,WOW! I will check it out some more tomorrow.Where do you plan to ride it?On the airport runway.Very,very impressive mate.I take ny hat off to you.

Cheers,
Tony.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby gtadmin » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:59 am

tonyontopofabighill wrote:G'day GT,

I had a look at your bike on the link.

GEEZ!,STREWTH!!!!.That is one very impressive machine GT and all that wiring,WOW! I will check it out some more tomorrow.Where do you plan to ride it?On the airport runway.Very,very impressive mate.I take ny hat off to you.

Cheers,
Tony.

Well, I had a bit of spare time :lol: Thanks for the rap mate :)
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby tonyontopofabighill » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:04 pm

G'day GT,

I read the story of your custom bike and it is very impressive.I used to be a Ducati rider and the frame has a bit of a "Duke" look about it.All up it looks like a Duke/harley hybrid.I am envious of all the skills you have used to get such a great looking bike.How will you go with the cops/Is that an issue at all?

Cheers,
Tony.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby Hillhater » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:44 pm

Another Aprilia on Ebay,...in SA this time.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Elec ... 4cfe65fd7a
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby tonyontopofabighill » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:20 am

I contacted the guy but he was reluctant to take it to his bike shop and ask about boxing it up and sending it to me in NSW.
He has listed it again on ebay. He reckons the battery is probably knackered from not using it for a while..I wonder if it may in fact be the controller issue again.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Elec ... DefaultDom
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby drekkus » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:41 pm

tonyontopofabighill wrote:I contacted the guy but he was reluctant to take it to his bike shop and ask about boxing it up and sending it to me in NSW.
He has listed it again on ebay. He reckons the battery is probably knackered from not using it for a while..I wonder if it may in fact be the controller issue again.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Elec ... DefaultDom


My wife has ended up buying this so I guess I'll find out when we pick it up. The guy didn't didn't venture too much info so I hope its not too much of a dud . Fortunately I like to fiddle with things like this so I'm reasonably confident I can sort most problems out. Who knows it may be something simple and even if its not it gives me the excuse to convince my wife to let me modify it :)
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby Samd » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:33 pm

Hey Drekkus, welcome aboard.

Easy to tell. Undo all the hex bolts and remove the two main plastic covers. Then disconnect the controller and briefly add 12volts from a car battery or the like directly to the motor and see if the back wheel comes to life. If it does, it's either battery or controller.

The controller is pish anyway. Cut it out and fit an LBD14 and throttle for under fifty bucks.

If the battery is ok you can save up for lipo. Tell your partner that with LiPo fitted, this bike is better value than anything on the market under $1500. Maybe more.

If the motor is shot sing out, I have spares.

Cheers....
http://ballaratebikes.com/

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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby Hillhater » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:37 pm

Also, remember it is very hard to totally kill those Nimh packs.
Even after being left discharged for months, they can be revived with some care and effort.
Search this site and the net for way to revive them.
And there are lots of contacts / connectors both inside and outside the pack that can dry up / corrode to cause problems.
but as always, a lipo transfusion will make you smile !
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby drekkus » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:14 am

Samd wrote:Hey Drekkus, welcome aboard.

Easy to tell. Undo all the hex bolts and remove the two main plastic covers. Then disconnect the controller and briefly add 12volts from a car battery or the like directly to the motor and see if the back wheel comes to life. If it does, it's either battery or controller.

The controller is pish anyway. Cut it out and fit an LBD14 and throttle for under fifty bucks.

If the battery is ok you can save up for lipo. Tell your partner that with LiPo fitted, this bike is better value than anything on the market under $1500. Maybe more.

If the motor is shot sing out, I have spares.

Cheers....



Thanks. The bike is supposed to be used by my daughter for a 6km trip each way to catch a bus to and from TAFE. It will be interesting to see if she can handle the size of it. Anyway it won't go to waste as it will no doubt become a "project" at some stage. I already have a controller on order in anticipation of some conversion work. With any luck it will work as is with a little work giving me more time to collect other bits. I think its being collected tomorrow.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby tonyontopofabighill » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:40 am

Another one for sale in VIC (naturally).If one comes up for sale in southern NSW it is mine. My lipo's are going great!
http://melbourne.gumtree.com.au/c-Stuff ... Z306379897

Cheers,
Tony.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby drekkus » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:00 am

Got it home today and it looks in good condition. Just charging the battery to see if it will hold charge as a first step.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby Hillhater » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:03 pm

dont be surprised if it doesnt charge, or seems to be dead.
As i said, there are a lot of wire connections inside that pack that may have corroded "dry" and can fool you into thinking the pack is dead.
If it doesnt charge, you may need to disassemble the pack to fault find a little.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby Samd » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:13 pm

The fuses inside are worth a look. They are held in with a fancy version of basic spade connectors.

The controller uses as 12v supply i think tapped from the middle of the 24v pack. Might be a cause. Another reason to throw the controller out and swap it for a thumb throttle and 2wire controller.

Cheers.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby drekkus » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:13 am

It did charge and the bike did work .... for about a minute. We'll see how a few charges/discharges go. I don't want to start opening battery packs up unless I have to.
Is it normal for the bike to become very hard to pedal when the battery goes flat or does it just seem that way in comparison to a good battery.
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Re: Aprilia Enjoy

Postby Hillhater » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:41 pm

drekkus wrote: I don't want to start opening battery packs up unless I have to.

I understand, but opening these packs is only a screwdriver exercise. quick and easy.
Sound like you have some cells out of balance.

drekkus wrote: ...Is it normal for the bike to become very hard to pedal when the battery goes flat or does it just seem that way in comparison to a good battery.

There is a roller clutch in the motor gearbox that should release when the pedals are moving faster than the motor. It may be stuck , but anyway , yes, these are heavy bikes to pedal with no power, due to drag in the Bbracket gearing.
You should also be aware that the front chainring turns at double the pedal speed !.
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