Complete Hobby King Lipo Protection Kit

[Bazaki]

As far as I can see this kit is indeed a perfect solution to avoid overcharging and discharging.

But one year ago a friend of mine did ride his ebike completely empty with some cells at 1 or 2 volts, one day later we did charge that pack and some cells did not charge and stay around 1,5v and sit there while other cells did charge, (we did balance charge the 6s pack ) after a while those unchargeable 1,5v cells were getting hot, so we stopped charging because I think they will explode.

And since we are humans that can make mistakes and many of us have had some Low voltage accidents I wonder if the situation as I described above will be avoided.....

I'm afraid with bulkcharging the charger will continue because the kit will not cut off since it does not a detect high voltage nor a low voltage, or did I miss something.


Besides this I do want the kit because it is much safer !

[bjosta]

I'm afraid with bulkcharging the charger will continue because the kit will not cut off since it does not a detect high voltage nor a low voltage, or did I miss something.

Hmm maybe I didn't understand what you meant.
This product will protect you while bulk charging so it stops the charger if any cell reaches 4.3v. It will protect you from over discharging while running your bike since it will cut throttle if any cell reaches below 3.0v.

[Bazaki]

What I meant if for some reason the cells will be about 1 or 2 v per cell and are not able to take a charge they will get hot and probably catch fire.

With a LVC breaker we almost eliminate this situation but after parking your bike for a few weeks and the contact is still on, or the controller is taking a few mA, maybe an alarm or just some selfdischaring, there is a risk that some cells drop to this 1 or 2v and can't take the charge. A cell log has the feature that it can beep at a given voltage difference, for example 70 mV. It is just a thought, I do love this kit based on what I have been reading at this topic. Lipo's will never be 100% safe but with this kit and probably cell difference cut off it is getting much and much more safe

[amberwolf]

What I meant if for some reason the cells will be about 1 or 2 v per cell and are not able to take a charge they will get hot and probably catch fire.

If you allow cells to reach that low a voltage, and are brave enough to risk recharging them again, I dare say that you should expect to have problems with them.

If you had these boards on there, then you wouldn't run into this problem in the first place, and even if you did, and decided to charge them back up despite knowing what could happen, then when any of the surviviing cells reached the HVC point, the boards would cut off charging.

If you have drained *all* the cells below a safe point to recharge, they might not charge back like they should, and HVC might not ever be reached, and indeed the pack could fail spectacularly. But you would already know this could happen, and would be charging it in a safe bunker or outside away from anything else flammable, right?

[jonescg]

Hey Methods, when you next do a big custom batch of these guys, is it possible to get right-angle JSTs soldered onto the boards? I'm trying to get as low a profile setup as possible.
Cheers mate,
Chris

[methods]

No - that would cause the PCB to be much larger. I like the 90's too, but they have twice as large of a footprint + room for the wiring to exit, so that makes is 3X the footprint. That literally means 3X the price for me on PCB's - and that is more than I make on each board already.

I know one-off stuff sounds good but the reality is that it is extremely expensive. People think I am charging a lot for these at $50 but the reality is that I use very expensive and particular parts from a specific manufacturer and vendor, I pay an over-educated white dude to populate them, and my profit margin is so tiny that you would blush if I told you. The only reason I am even doing this is to try and learn the ropes so that some day I might actually make money

For now - my goal is typically to just make the money back that I invest and to call what I learn in the process my profit.

-methods

[jonescg]

The footprint of the paralleled connectors below won't concern me as I only need one JST down there, but I see what you mean with the HVC/LVC signal wires. Maybe leave them unsoldered and I can do them myself when I put the pack together?

MS Paint idea attached

[Sacman]

People think I am charging a lot for these at $50 but the reality is that I use very expensive and particular parts from a specific manufacturer and vendor, I pay an over-educated white dude to populate them, and my profit margin is so tiny that you would blush if I told you. The only reason I am even doing this is to try and learn the ropes so that some day I might actually make money

For now - my goal is typically to just make the money back that I invest and to call what I learn in the process my profit.

-methods

Lol... cracks me up. You and your over-educated white dude are diamonds in the ruff and we're lucky to have you both Patrick.

-Sacman

[methods]

ok - I have been beaten down.
We will do a very short run of 4S boards. These will be populated with JST-XH-5 (4S) headers. Only 4 channels will be populated. I put together a spreadsheet to calculate savings and it was almost nothing - so I am going to have to charge $45 each for them. I don't think that is a good deal.... what is the point in saving a few bucks buying 4S packs when you end up having to do a bunch of work to wire them up and pay a ton more for cell protection (assuming you want cell protection).

Anyhow - we will do a few sheets - so that works out to 24 of them. If they sell they sell. If they dont I will feed them to Matthew.
I will post up when they are finished. Parts are not even ordered so don't get excited.

-methods

[chroot]

Hi Methods,

I am running 4s4p (20Ah) will only need 4 lvc boards for 16S, It is not much work to wire them up and you probably right about 24S too much work with the wires.

[jonescg]

As long as there is a diversity of sizes I'm easy with whatever you do. Although 90 degree plugs for the cells would be poifect

[arth_d]

Hi im after making a 12s2p battery kit. (4x 6S 5000mah zippy packs to make a 44.4V 10ah Pack). I figure i need 2x LVC/HVC/Parallel Boards, a HVC Breaker Board and a Throttle Retard Assembly. After looking at your 18S photo at the start of this thread it looks like it is a 18S1p kit. I was just wondering where the other 2 balance plugs from the other 2 batteries go if i make a 12s2p kit go.

[methods]

I believe we produced 4S boards but then they got forgotten about when we had a few large orders for 5S and 6S. I will ask Matthew what happened to the batch - maybe 16 units or so. I remember buying a big box of genuine 4S JST connectors from Digikey.

We are out of opto's again - running super low on 6S boards. Tons of sales - only 3pcs of 6S left in the bin and maybe 10pcs of 5S. Plenty of HVC Breakers and Retard assemblies. Wont take long to build more - just need to order parts and start whipping Matthew.

-methods

Hi Methods,

I am running 4s4p (20Ah) will only need 4 lvc boards for 16S, It is not much work to wire them up and you probably right about 24S too much work with the wires.

[methods]

As long as there is a diversity of sizes I'm easy with whatever you do. Although 90 degree plugs for the cells would be poifect

Yea - I used to love the 90's too but it kills me on PCB size/cost. I already sell these wholesale at such a small profit that if anything goes wrong what so ever it ends up as a loss. Moving to 90's would put me into negative territory

On a good note - I think we have almost blown through the entire first lot of boards. We are ready for a revision 2.... I had hoped I would have time to come up with a new design - but I have not... Maybe we can do some late night testing. I would like to eliminate half of the Opto's now that we have some real world data... I totally over-engineered the first batch... though that is good because they will work in extreme weather. hrmmm..... Well - either way revision 2 wont make much difference to the end user - at best it will mean just a little less assembly time which means Matthew and I will be in a better mood.

-methods

[methods]

Hi im after making a 12s2p battery kit. (4x 6S 5000mah zippy packs to make a 44.4V 10ah Pack). I figure i need 2x LVC/HVC/Parallel Boards, a HVC Breaker Board and a Throttle Retard Assembly. After looking at your 18S photo at the start of this thread it looks like it is a 18S1p kit. I was just wondering where the other 2 balance plugs from the other 2 batteries go if i make a 12s2p kit go.

I see your order and figure that by now you have sorted it out. The board has 8 JST-XH-7 slots on it for paralleling - so one board will be used for paralleling cells 1-6 and the second board will be for paralleling cells 7-12.

Dont make any sparkles

-methods

[jonescg]

Hey Methy,

I was thinking when it comes closer to time for me to place my order I will probably go for the iSolder option I want a single 90 degree plug on the bottom for 4S and likewise for the 5S boards (each pack of cells is 9S). But the HVC/LVC stuff can remain completely unsoldered as I can do that myself. If you don't want to put a 90' plug on it, I can do this myself... I guess.

But it's gonna be a few months worth of savings before this happens. I need to order about $7000 worth of LiPo from HK...

[iovaykind]

I'm interested in some of those 4s boards if you've still got them. Tried to read through as much of this thread as possible, but I might've missed some stuff.. I guess I'll just let you know my setup and you can guide me on price. 16s2p setup (10ah) made up of 4s packs.

[methods]

Most folks buy 4S packs to save a few $0.01/wh at the cost of lots of build labor wiring it all together. Although one could use our boards with 4S packs it would be an inefficient use and the added cost would offset the savings you made buying 4S packs.

Example:
3 x 6S = 18S and needs three $50 parallel boards
4 x 4S = 16S and needs four $50 parallel boards

Just not a good match.....

Alternately if ones labor was not worth anything they could build a parallel/series harness to convert the (4*4)S2P into (6+6+4)S2P to use three boards instead of two....

Anyway -> I have 13 or 14 5S boards in stock, 3 6S boards in stock, and although I thought we had some 4S on the production line I think those got converted to 5S and sent off last week.

Parts have been ordered and we have enough PCB's to make about 50 more parallel boards. Once those are gone there will be a dry spell until I get the next version of PCB's finished and tested. This next version wont be much different from the users perspective - just more efficient from the production perspective.

-methods

I'm interested in some of those 4s boards if you've still got them. Tried to read through as much of this thread as possible, but I might've missed some stuff.. I guess I'll just let you know my setup and you can guide me on price. 16s2p setup (10ah) made up of 4s packs.

[zukster]

Most folks buy 4S packs to save a few $0.01/wh at the cost of lots of build labor wiring it all together. Although one could use our boards with 4S packs it would be an inefficient use and the added cost would offset the savings you made buying 4S packs.

Totally agree. I love the simplicity of my 2x6S packs. With the new Zippy Compacts now available in 7S,8S,9S, and 10S, it would be better to make LVC boards for these. For cheap Infineon controller which typically have 63v caps, then 2x7S or 7S+8S is ideal, and for the better ebikes.ca controllers, 2x8S,9S,10S give some nice simple higher power options.

You're down to 3 6S boards? I need 4. Will email you re,

[methods]

The new parts arrived today so we can start the final production run on the 6S boards. I need to test them though since we are changing part numbers so it will be a few days.... These are the "new parts" that will be used on the next PCB version. Interested to see how they perform. They are actually from a "better" manufacturer so I am really curious what we will see.

I am not checking PM's today as I am doing layout. I see a few 6S orders in there so I suspect that we are or will be "sold out". Maybe tonight I will bribe Matthew to convert the 5S panel that is on the cleaning line to 6S to meet demands.


-methods

[methods]

Ok - here is the final count of what is available:

HVC/LVC/Parallel
4S - 8 boards
5S - 4 boards
6S - 27 boards

HVC Breaker
10 in stock, parts to build more

5S & 6S Balance Tap Jumpers and extensions
I got a new shipment... so prices are now back to "reasonable" (not $5 anymore - since I dont have to mod these)

I am getting a lot of hits for folks rushing to build race bikes for the TTXGP this year. Good luck you guys!

The 4S run was just a fluke that we decided to do for fun. That is it... 8pcs... and we have to charge full price for them as a novelty. Matthew had already populated many of the parts to make them 6S so there is really only $3 is savings on them for us.

We have a few one-offs for the adventurous. 2 or 3 of the epoxy boards. Maybe a handful of boards that are "factory re-certified". Etc. I will probably put all of these into an attractive package and sell them as a lot with some other one-off stuff like jumper cables that need re-wiring and maybe a big bag of old balance tap crap we dont use anymore.


I have been steering people away for a couple of weeks due to a shortage of the JST-XH-6 daisy jumpers - but I am back in stock on those... so if I ran you off now would be the time. I am pretty much done with the next revision but I have not even submitted the PCB's yet so there will def be a period of time where we are totally out of stock. Pricing and performance will be the same - though the newer units will have slightly less sensitivity and might require tuning of the retard resistor to work with all controllers.

-methods

[chroot]

Methods- I'll take 8 piece of 4s lvc boards and I can stop by your friend's recycle shop whenever you are available.

[methods]

Methods- I'll take 8 piece of 4s lvc boards and I can stop by your friend's recycle shop whenever you are available.

I actually do not have a shop space in the recycle warehouse anymore - I am about 1 mile away. Email me and we can set up a time - but the boards are just now coming out of the cleaner and will not be ready until later this afternoon at the earliest. Still need to test them But I like to test in batches to limit mistakes so I am finishing up the entire batch right now.

-methods

[amberwolf]

We have a few one-offs for the adventurous. 2 or 3 of the epoxy boards. Maybe a handful of boards that are "factory re-certified". Etc. I will probably put all of these into an attractive package and sell them as a lot with some other one-off stuff like jumper cables that need re-wiring and maybe a big bag of old balance tap crap we dont use anymore.

How much do you think you will want for the lot?

[methods]

For the wolf?
Free!

I will put them in a box for you. Remind me of your address via PM or send me $1 on PayPal so I can print a label.

-methods