Affordable 9C “wife kits” (sale over - see last post)

[methods]

Oh wait... duh....

We can just create a throttle that applies more or less power to the front wheel to compensate for the KV.
Ok - forget what I said... with individual throttle control we can make any KV mismatch work.

I have just the idea too... I think we can use the CA for this.

-methods

[hjns]

Oh wait... duh....

We can just create a throttle that applies more or less power to the front wheel to compensate for the KV.
Ok - forget what I said... with individual throttle control we can make any KV mismatch work.

I have just the idea too... I think we can use the CA for this.

-methods

edit: pm sent for the rusty 9x7


Cool! My Volvo XC90 AWD usually has only the front wheels powered. However, when they slip, power is diverted to the rear wheels for full awd. Is there any challence in creating a board that will always result in a (selectable?) ratio of 40:60 for f:r by adjusting the current that is delivered to the individual motors?

please, bear with me and my 2wd questions. I am having a holiday and the wife and kids are still asleep and I am bored to death. Worst of all, I can not continue working on my new sin (bike)...

Therefore, all this knowledge is absorbed immediately. Well appreciated!

[methods]

Can we do it?
Yes, it is easy

Will it happen?
no - I hardly have time to support what I already have going

The closest we could get to that would be a potentiometer on your handlebars that allows you to dial down the power on the front wheel.

I will take a look this weekend to see what I can find in the Garage... I probably have a dozen hub motors in there that are just sitting.

-methods

[hjns]

ha, adding a pot may even be within the limits of my miniscule electronics skills. I like it. Thanks!

[methods]

I have a solid stock of 6 fet 25A controllers in now.
These are the buggers with 36V to 88V voltage range, IRFB4110's, power switch, regen, water seal, etc.

I will offer $20 off of any of these kits for a few days to get things moving again. I have been SUPER LAZY and did not go to work for 2 weeks!
See the first post for pricing.

Any substitutions welcome. Currently I have 7spd and 8spd freewheels, torque arms, CA-LDP, CA-LSA, freewheel tools, 12G spoke wrenches, LVC/HVC/Parallel boards, and a bunch of other stuff. The Website is still not up.

-methods

[dogman]

I would just like to claify something since I have been touting these windings for climbing hills. At 800w of power, they are going to climb like 800w. So so. They may not get up a 10% grade no pedaling on a 36v 20 amp controller. They should though, on a 1500w dose of power. 72v 20 amps works good. I don't have a 48v 35 amp controller, but I bet that would climb fine with no pedaling too. At a certain grade, the laws of physics are going to interfere with getting up it with zero pedaling on lower wattage.

The impression might have been given in my other threads that these motors have more power on a hill. Not really, but they can climb a hill longer before they overheat. After you melt 2-3 motors you begin to really appreciate that quality. And that hill climbing may be at a slowish speed. It's a slow motor, so if you expected faster up the hill, I apologize for giving that impression. It's climbing hills for a longer time before overheating that I am looking for.

I think these motors are ideal for 20 mph travel, and getting up the longer hills with only 48v 20 amp controllers. But to climb hills with zero pedal assist above 7% , you should overwatt them some, to at least 1500w.

Another great quality of these motors is that they naturaly run with a good efficiency. Makes sense, they make less heat leaving each stop sign. And if you run them on 48v, then they only go 20 mph which is simply more efficient than 23 mph. 23 mph is what you get with a 2807 on 36v. Amazing though, what just 3 mph less does for your wh/ mi number. So it's the ideal setup for the longer weekend rides where long range is prized more than speed.

[methods]

We are now modifying the 6fet 25A controllers that come with these kits up to 40A upon request. They can be set as high as 50A if a lot of attention is paid to cooling the controller....

At 40A these put out 160% thrust and get "warm to hot".... great for the reasonable rider who needs 60% more thrust to get up a steep driveway
Don't underestimate how important the current limit is when evaluating the power of a given setup - current limit is directly proportional to thrust

Of course the CA can be used to dial the current back to the stock 25A at any time.
The modification is complementary - thanks to Matthew of MethTek.

-methods

[999zip999]

Hay Meth I just order using your store that was easy a 2810 rear, torque arm and a 7sp 11t.. I'm going to run it on a 55v at 30amps. If not maybe 82v dreaming of the furture.

[methods]

Nice - I see the notification in my stack of 75 emails for today
I will send you one of the modded 30A units. I am sure it will go out today, watch your PayPal for tracking.

55V will make for effective transportation... 82V would be a lot more fun.

You know it is funny - I dont get to ride ebikes anymore (too busy trying to hit bottom) but when I do - even a standard 36V 20A ebike is a kick in the pants over having to pedal up hill. Any kind of electric assist is frigging awesome.

-methods

[999zip999]

Sorry Methods I don't under stand. I'm ordering a 2810 rear hub, torque arm and a 11t 7sp. . How can any of that be modded for 30a ? Plus I will use my C.A. to limit my amps for that lyen 12fet. which might be up to 45a. controller. May run that 2810 at 55v40a.

[methods]

Too many orders...

Yes, yours went out today with a 2810R, 7spd freewheel, spacer, and beefy torque arm.

-methods

[Skippic]

Hi methods!

Would 2810R + 24s be too much? What is a safe maximum voltage the controller can handle?

What would be the top speed for that maximum voltage? (unfortunately Justin's simulator doesn't have the 2810)

[methods]

There really is not maximum voltage - it is the power you have to be concerned with. You could run 250V @ 3A if you like...

What it boils down to is the efficiency range that you run at so what you want to do is decide the top speed you want to ride at, the winding of the motor, and back calculate the voltage you need to do that

Voltage = speed
Current = thrust

To use Justins simulator for the 2810 you do this (as I have said many times...)

Select the 2805 motor (that is half the windings - 5 turn instead of 10 turn)
Enter one half your nominal pack voltage
Enter double your controller current limit

This will result in nearly the exact same performance simulation as entering your actual data with a 2810

6x10 means 6 strands of wire with 10 turns around each pole
12x5 means 12 strands of wire with 5 turns around each pole

6*10 = 60
12*5 = 60

Same copper fil
Same torque

-methods

Hi methods!

Would 2810R + 24s be too much? What is a safe maximum voltage the controller can handle?

What would be the top speed for that maximum voltage? (unfortunately Justin's simulator doesn't have the 2810)

[999zip999]

I guess i'll find out in the real world how 61v off the charger and 30 amps will take this bike I think 22mph. Got to wait till monday. This is the hard part.

[methods]

It will freewheel about 29mph hot off the charger so 23mph would be a reasonable guess. Maybe 25mph since it is a very low kv hub and your packs may be stiff... but that will burn off quick and you will probably settle at more like 20mph.

-methods

[7lions]

I love High Voltage setups from my RC days, so this idea really appeals to me.

I had posted on your HS thread about converting a trike, but never heard back - that's OK, as I got involved in other things for a while.

I'm still planning to convert my Terratrike (20" rear wheel), and this was almost the solution. 24S Lipo through the 20" setup would have hit the mark almost perfectly for my purposes, at least on paper. Then I noticed that it was a front wheel...

So my question is this:
Can a front hub readily be converted to a rear one? I imagine that it would at least require changing the cover on the drive side and replacing the axle. Probably not an easy task, but it never hurts to ask.

Alternate question:
I have had really bad luck with my previous attempts at wheelbuilding. Do you have a way of (for a fee) relacing one of the 26" kit wheels with a 20" rim? I'll check in with LBS as well to see what they'd charge to lace it up, but my guess is they don't keep spokes that short.

The price is definitely right - if there's a way to get a rear wheel in 20" (either wind is fine) at a reasonable added cost, I'm in.

I might bite anyway and build an MTB with the 26" kit. And then there's always the Crystalyte route...

[methods]

I love High Voltage setups from my RC days, so this idea really appeals to me.

I had posted on your HS thread about converting a trike, but never heard back - that's OK, as I got involved in other things for a while.

I do remember this - sorry for not getting back. I spend all my time with customer service and never get out on the boards anymore.

I'm still planning to convert my Terratrike (20" rear wheel), and this was almost the solution. 24S Lipo through the 20" setup would have hit the mark almost perfectly for my purposes, at least on paper. Then I noticed that it was a front wheel...

I would just go with a rear 2810.... the 2812 is just insanely low KV - even at 24S

So my question is this:
Can a front hub readily be converted to a rear one? I imagine that it would at least require changing the cover on the drive side and replacing the axle. Probably not an easy task, but it never hurts to ask.

The short answer is no - unless you want to forgo the chain or press in a rear axle. Fronts are also a lot more narrow.

Alternate question:
I have had really bad luck with my previous attempts at wheelbuilding. Do you have a way of (for a fee) relacing one of the 26" kit wheels with a 20" rim? I'll check in with LBS as well to see what they'd charge to lace it up, but my guess is they don't keep spokes that short.

The 20" build is pretty darn easy - it is a zero cross - meaning the spokes just radiate straight out. Any bike shop should be willing to do this for $30 I am going to have to pass on the oportunity - I am already losing money on these hubs... I dont wnat to lose anymore

The price is definitely right - if there's a way to get a rear wheel in 20" (either wind is fine) at a reasonable added cost, I'm in.

I might bite anyway and build an MTB with the 26" kit. And then there's always the Crystalyte route...

The HS3540 in a 20" wheel would rock your world on a trike.... especially on 24S. The 2810 or 2812 would be cool - but not mind blowing. I hear you about using high voltage (former RC nut) but the big difference here is that we have current limited controllers so we can have the best of both worlds: High KV motors AND high voltage

I used to swear by the low KV high voltage combo - but I have slowly drifted toward running more reasonable voltages and higher KV hubs. The lower voltage is for reliability (not being right on the 100V limit) and the higher KV moves the power band from "off the line" to the middle of the power band. They come off the line a little slower but explode into the power band around 15 - 20mph.

Like turbo

-methods

[7lions]

Roger that - based on that input, I'll cogitate a bit and then pull the trigger. The HS would save me time and give more setup headroom, but tacks on a few hundred more.

Your point about the current-limited controller opening up both voltage and current is a really good one that I hadn't considered.

I'm also toying with the idea of using one of these low-kV winds for a stokemonkey-style setup, but that's probably more engineering than I can muster during the school year (I'm a teacher).

[dogman]

The reason I've been so in love with both windings, 2812 and 2810, is because the power band IS shifted to such a low speed. For my needs, on technical single track trails or for slogging a long distance bike over the rocky mountains, hitting the sweet spot of the motor at 10 mph is perfect. So they run great for me on my trail bike, and just as good on the longtail cargo bike.

These motors perform nice for me at 20s, usually they draw only a portion of the 40 amps offered and get a reasonable wh/mi.

If you need to climb a hill, they sure will by god.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35308

I got my 2812 rear motor in 26" by buying both windings. Then I swapped the stators. But now you couldn't do that since the rear 2812's sold out. But you can get the opposite, buy the 2810 R and swap it into the 20" rim on a 2812 F. In 20" rim, I bet it would be pretty hard to stall that going uphill.

[methods]

Thanks Dogman - sometimes I forget that people are doing all sorts of different things that give them a different set of requirements. I suppose not everyone is just looking for a cheap thrill accelerating on flat pavement

I agree that running 20S on one of these motors would make for a great technical trail crawler.

-methods

[dogman]

For me, the lighter weight of the slow winding 9c has been just the thing. The cheap crap o bikes I ride don't tolerate the 25 pound hubmotor so good.

You see guys spending a ton of money so their dirt ride will go 35-40 mph, but the rocky trails I ride on, 25 is already faster than I want to go headfirst into rocks. So no need for more than 20-25 mph of speed. The main thing for me has been that I can put 1500w continuous into these motors in 110 F heat all summer. Once it's below 80F, I let er rip with 3000w controller.

[999zip999]

Setup my bike 2810 and a 24-72v crstalyte analog controller Halls y-y, g-g, b-b, phase y-b, g-y, b-g, at 62v off the charger at 30amps it goes 22mph. It better up the hills as far as fade and uses less wh. I think ( ? ) then my broken greaded motor again lost keyway ( gears clucth and more problems ). And top end is slower, but with less battery use, more distant.

[7lions]

The idea of swapping stators (and side plates) was a brilliant one, but after waffling a bit, I opted for the Crystalyte route. Just placed an order on the methtek website, and look forward to getting it rolling! The main issue for me was that even at the 100V limit, the 20" wheel size severely limited my top speed in the calc, particularly with the 2812. If I had a 26" rear, though, I certainly would have jumped at one of these.

[Kinni420]

just ordered this kit with the 40a upgrade. too excited to sleep...THANKS METHODS!!

[el_walto]

These prices are dirt cheap. Didnt know one could sell that kit for such a low price.