Best reason to get a high powered ebike NOW

[John in CR]

Anyone who hasn't experienced getting out and mixing it up with traffic on an ebike that keeps up is missing out on a once in a lifetime opportunity. While ebikes are so rare we have all that leftover space that cars leave behind. I'm someone who abhors traffic, so when I tell you it's a pleasure to get out there and mix it up, it means something. Just ask guys like LFP, GCinDC, Arlo1, YPedal, and others. Unless they come out with sub 150lb emotos it won't be the same, so don't go that route.

Don't wait too long, because every day that passes means more ebikes are on the road and once they're common it's actually going to suck having to share that leftover space. That's why right now is such a unique opportunity and it will never happen again until general transportation is in the early stages of going airborne.

John

[rojitor]

I love every time i arrive the last and get the first place at the red light, every time i pass a gas station and i don't have to stop, when i make it to my job in the last minute but i'm safe because i don't have to waste 20 minutes looking for a place to park. So yeah a powerful ebike in the middle of the traffic rocks.

[Jason27]

I agree

[MadRhino]

Another good reason to do it now, is that we have a free pass. When powerful Ebikes start to be more common, the law will be enforced, and change to stop most of us from building our own light weight power bikes.

[John in CR]

Another good reason to do it now, is that we have a free pass. When powerful Ebikes start to be more common, the law will be enforced, and change to stop most of us from building our own light weight power bikes.

True, but hopefully our movement gets enough clout to continue saying FU to the man. What are they going to do, arrest us for riding electric bikes? That's the perspective we all need, because all the guys worrying about stealth and staying legal to the letter of the law cracks me up. Don't F with me unless I'm exceeding the posted speed limit. Down here I'm not an inkling on The Man's radar and legal changes move so slowly that soon enough a lot more of you guys will bail. Year round riding weather and probably better trails than even you're used to.

[migueralliart]

I enjoy riding my ebike to work. My commute is just 8 miles one way but it is a straight like and @ 30mph it gets interesting from light to light when the speed limit is 40mph. I love it when I catch up with traffic at a red light. And when people don't believe that you have an ebike. Gotta love em now I'm building my second one and considering a nice and sporty tadpole trike.

[John in CR]

I enjoy riding my ebike to work. My commute is just 8 miles one way but it is a straight like and @ 30mph it gets interesting from light to light when the speed limit is 40mph. I love it when I catch up with traffic at a red light. And when people don't believe that you have an ebike. Gotta love em now I'm building my second one and considering a nice and sporty tadpole trike.

Your're just getting a taste. Bump it up by 20-30% and it's a whole new world. Match their speed and then pass in the space at the stop lights. As long as you ride with focus then it takes you to a drastically increased level of safety, and the level of satisfaction is impossible to explain.

I realize it's impossible for the guys living in wide open areas where traffic moves at too high speeds, but where there's traffic congestion absolutely nothing beats a high power ebike. Where I live, other than a straight highway shot at low traffic times or middle of the night when there{s no traffic, I can get anywhere in a 20 mile radius faster than any car.

John

[veloman]

I ride pretty conservatively, mostly just to promote a good image of ebikes. I'm the only out there in my city (that I've ever seen) riding a 30-35mph ebike. There's a few gassers that go my speeds, but that's another animal. If there's no bike lane, then I'm going to match traffic speeds as best I can, frock the 20mph limit. I never hold up traffic like a normal cyclist would.

I do think that I need to keep it slower than you fast guys. Love passing stacked up cars at a light.

[lcyn]

Another good reason to do it now, is that we have a free pass. When powerful Ebikes start to be more common, the law will be enforced, and change to stop most of us from building our own light weight power bikes.

I agree. Many communities, including my own, are starting to limit E-bikes. Part of the problem is the image that powerful souped-up bikes that look homemade are going too fast to take their place alongside conventional bikes. Many of these Rube Golberg creations should be classed as motorcycles, and licensed as such. I would hate to see conventional, reasonable speed Ebikes be limited or curtailed because of these overvolted homemade bikes.

[sn0wchyld]

Another good reason to do it now, is that we have a free pass. When powerful Ebikes start to be more common, the law will be enforced, and change to stop most of us from building our own light weight power bikes.

I agree. Many communities, including my own, are starting to limit E-bikes. Part of the problem is the image that powerful souped-up bikes that look homemade are going too fast to take their place alongside conventional bikes. Many of these Rube Golberg creations should be classed as motorcycles, and licensed as such. I would hate to see conventional, reasonable speed Ebikes be limited or curtailed because of these overvolted homemade bikes.

all I can say mate, is move to AUS, where that happened about 15 years ago or something... granted, every cop ive ridden past (so far) doesnt seem bat an eyelid even at my ebike-come-emotorbike but the official law here is 200w, calculated as motor stall amps x battery max voltage x motor peak efficiency. Ie the laws here are already f#$ked as far as ebikes are concerned.

Hopefully we can continue to ride under the radar for many years to come, or even better, the laws may change for the better... though I'm not holding my breath.

So the OP/topic could not be truer from my perspective, one day soon todaytonight or ACA are going to do a 'shocking report' on the dangers of ebikers on our roads, running over grannies and small children with a look on their face, and they'll be outlawed all together, or simply strictly enforced... So I am very much taking advantage of the current lack of attention/awareness/knowledge when it comes to ebikes!

Sorry... didnt mean to sound so pessimistic, just every time a topic like this comes up it reminds me that 'my time' on a ebike could be short lived...
so the only answer is GET OUT AND RIDE!!

[dogman]

All part of why I'm so glad New Mexico has no ebike law. And part of why I just comply with the law we have, which luckily is 30 mph, but no watt limit. Last thing I want is to make waves and get a 200w law passed here, or even a 20 mph law. So I stick to sub 30 mph and hope the ride lasts my lifetime. No need to get noticed locally, and spur the city into doing it's own stupid stuff, like is happening in Colorado.

It helps a lot though, that 150 yards from my house the dirt riding starts. Just a few bazillion square miles of desert land I can do anything I want on. Why bother with hauling ass on the street playing dodgecar when the dirt is on my doorstep.

[gensem]

John, im still running a small 12fet controller so I cannot acelerate very fast, but the bike does over 40mph and hopefully (at least for the last week) nor cops nor any other authority cares.
Will need more time to be sure, but for now looks like im going to be fine with my bike.

[Sunder]

It's unfortunately people like John in CR that are going to ruin it for all of us.

A friend of mine is a traffic lawyer for Parramatta in Western Sydney. A LOT of guys out there lose their licences for DUI, speeding and hooning. He tells me he's recently gotten a LOT of clients, which are facing jail time for repeatedly riding unregistered motor vehicles - The vehicles? Converted petrol bikes.

He tells me that these guys lose their licence, and then get one of these bikes and say "What are police going to do, arrest us all?" (They're very common out there) and sure enough... Police pull them all over, charge them with driving an unregistered vehicle - By law the onus is then on the owner to prove that their vehicle is exempt from registration. It's one of the few areas of law where it's almost "Guilty until proven innocent".

My friend, the lawyer, talks a lot to these police officers, and they're frustrated that his clients think that they're fools. Police turn a blind eye to a lot of laws they don't think are worth enforcing, but when someone has the attitude "What are they going to do, arrest all of us?" that's exactly what any person would do. It's like drawing a line in the sand and saying "Step over it - I dare you".

So John reckons we should all get illegal, high powered bike while there's still the chance. I say that's like saying "Sooner or later my brakes are going to fail. Better ride home as fast as I can before they do.". There's some weird twisted logic that makes sense... Yet doesn't.

The backlash against petrol bikes is already starting, with Bicycle NSW lobbying the government to ban petrol bikes, and the NSW pedestrian council pushing to limit all power assisted bikes to 10km/h - despite the fact even the most unfit rider can go 20+ on pedal alone. The Queensland government already has banned petrol bikes.

So I guess these are the choices:

1. You act like an idiot, give us all a bad name, and eventually get new legislation in, and orders from the top for police to start rigorously enforcing the new laws.

2. You enjoy your hobby/sport/commuting method, and sacrifice some of your fun try to keep under the radar, and police will probably turn a blind eye to reasonable behavior on more moderate (electric bikes that don't go a lot faster than a fit cyclist) electric bikes.

I know I can't influence the majority of you - and it'll only take a few high profile hoons to get on "Today Tonight" - but hell, if I can discourage one hoon, that might make a Today Tonight producer decide that the story isn't worth running, then maybe we will get a bit longer before we come under scruitiny.

[gensem]

Sunder... I hardly see how a single person with a fast bicycle would change the world.
Im fairly certain that popularity and some deaths ll change the law in the coming years.
What scares me most is that better batteries are getting cheaper day by day. Soon by chinese low cost ebikes ll be doing 30mph and you will be able to get one for under 1k and milions of people will have it because its cheap, green, etc. After that people ll start to get involved in accidents by either mechanical failure or unskilled riding and the law ll strike.



my 2c

[liveforphysics]

It's unfortunately people like John in CR that are going to ruin it for all of us.

Nope. He is embracing and using the best transportation method on the planet. Doing the right thing, and setting an example for it.
The problem is 100% in the minds of the police and lawmakers. Never stop doing the right thing because some idiots and their hired goons try to stop you.

[Sunder]

It's unfortunately people like John in CR that are going to ruin it for all of us.

Nope. He is embracing and using the best transportation method on the planet. Doing the right thing, and setting an example for it.

100% agree up to this point.

The problem is 100% in the minds of the police and lawmakers. Never stop doing the right thing because some idiots and their hired goons try to stop you.

I think we all agree that the police and lawmakers have set limits too low. No question about that.

But advocating we rub it in their faces and say "What are they going to do, arrest us all"? That's profound disrespect for the law - even a law that isn't fair.

Sooner or later - Someone, any one person will hit a kid and cause paraplegia There is no doubt, that someone will point out if the bike rider hadn't been riding at 40km/h and had a bike that weighed 30+kg, then this accident would have been avoided or far less serious. Ergo, the problem was not a bad luck accident, a single foolish rider, but actually the bike itself as at fault.

A typical pay out for that is in the range of 10 to 75 million. Without compulsory registration and insurance, that person will be bankrupt, and that kid will be left uncompensated, and this will make the news and force legislators to register and insure all powered bikes. And with registration, there will probably be annual checks, just like they have cars here.

The issue is not obeying a law which is unreasonable - my bike is also capable of more than 200 continuous, 250 peak. My issue flaunting it in front of police, and "making the most of it" while we can get away with it. That attitude, I know is what gets the back up of police and will make them come down on us with the full force of the unreasonable law.

[Sunder]

Sunder... I hardly see how a single person with a fast bicycle would change the world.
Im fairly certain that popularity and some deaths ll change the law in the coming years.
What scares me most is that better batteries are getting cheaper day by day. Soon by chinese low cost ebikes ll be doing 30mph and you will be able to get one for under 1k and milions of people will have it because its cheap, green, etc. After that people ll start to get involved in accidents by either mechanical failure or unskilled riding and the law ll strike.

my 2c

I think we're seeing the same point and coming to different conclusions.

One day the law will change, because someone dies. One day the law will be more rigorously enforced, because the public will not tolerate people openly flaunting it.

I want that day to be further off, by all eBikers to be respectful users of the road, not drawing attention to ourselves. I don't want 90% of the eBike population to have to undergo additional scruitiny, because people like John want to get in their 8kw, 60mph, wheelie doing bike because it's the last chance he's got before the law is changed (Because of people like him).

[MadRhino]

My friend, the lawyer, talks a lot to these police officers, and they're frustrated...

The lawyer's twisted mind is starting to stain on yours. Being afraid and shy on everything is how they want you.
Here the DUI are riding E-scooters and they are making a bad name to E-scooters even if they are legal, low power Ebikes by the law.
Idiots are making a bad name to Ebikes, and idiots usually don't build a powerful ride, because they can be just as good at being idiots without the need to do it fast.

The law is limiting our power already, yet the law is not applied because we are not dangerous riding with the cars in the lane. The cops prefer to bother the legal E-scooters who are riding the bike path, because of a few idiots who scare the slow moms with their kids.

[Sunder]

Let me perhaps add one more anecdote to make my position a bit clearer.

I modified my first car in 1997 - Well before it was a "popular" past time. As part of a modified car club, we'd go on cruises, sometimes just meet up at MacDonalds, or a car park along a beach, and just chat, check out each other's cars, all those kinds of things. I won't say we were angels, but in one case, where the manager of a Maccas called police because someone did a burn out in the car park, the police just came, politely told us someone had complained, and asked us to move on. While not angels, what we were, were knowledgeable skilled enthusiasts. Every person there did their own mechanics. Every person there knew what was safe, and what was not. Most people there had their CAMS-2 or above licence.

Fast forward to "The Fast and the Furious". Every man and his dog, and quite often his girlfriend as well wanted a modified car. Complaints of hoonish behaviour flooded in. Police started setting up "defect stations" (Safety inspection stations) in all our favourite cruising and hanging out spots. Idiots with big paychecks that didn't know how cars worked, but happy to pay for someone else to put "Two of the big ones" in their car started ruining it for the rest of us. Today Tonight kept running "exposes" on us. Politicians made it a political point.

You'd hear stories of people just driving along sedately being pulled over, just because they had a fully legal, modified exhaust. In fact, it was hilarious - the traffic lawyer that I mentioned a few posts back got pulled over, just outside court, and he said to the police officer - Sorry, I'm in a hurry, I've got a case up soon - When the police officer asked him what he had been done for, he replied. No, you misunderstand - I'm a lawyer.

That's what I fear will happen to our community if either:

1) It becomes so popular that we inevitably gain members that bring disrepute to our community.

2) Some of our members feel it's the last chance to hoon, and so take it, drawing attention to our community.

Think real carefully about how you want the law makers to perceive eBikes. Right now, I believe police turn a blind eye to electric bikes, because there have been few incidents - few people flaunting the power they have, and so forth. I'm not keen for that to change for the sake of a few who want to put a line in the sand and challenge the law makers. The law makers will win in the end. Have a look at the state of car modifying now... It's back to it's pre-F&F levels, with many people (including me) out of the game, because it was just so hard to avoid scrutiny. We had one police lecturer our car club and tell us it's usually possible to defect a car straight out of the show room. If they wanted, seeing a windshield washer less than half full is a defect. Considering that tyre pressure was a bit low is a defect...

Is that the kind of scrutiny you want on eBikes?

[Sunder]

My friend, the lawyer, talks a lot to these police officers, and they're frustrated...

The lawyer's twisted mind is starting to stain on yours. Being afraid and shy on everything is how they want you.
Here the DUI are riding E-scooters and they are making a bad name to E-scooters even if they are legal, low power Ebikes by the law.
Idiots are making a bad name to Ebikes, and idiots usually don't build a powerful ride, because they can be just as good at being idiots without the need to do it fast.

The law is limiting our power already, yet the law is not applied because we are not dangerous riding with the cars in the lane. The cops prefer to bother the legal E-scooters who are riding the bike path, because of a few idiots who scare the slow moms with their kids.

I think I'm "afraid" for good reason. If the community perceives eBikers as hoons and idiots, the laws will be changed and enforced - even for those riding legally.

The law is limiting our power already, yet the law is not applied because we are not dangerous riding with the cars in the lane.

This is what I don't get... This is EXACTLY my point. Isn't John advocating getting high powered bikes to ride with the cars in a lane... Looking and behaving exactly like a motor cycle? A registered... Insured... Licenced.. Motor cycle?

Isn't this what we as a community want to stop?

[Andje]

Being afraid and shy on everything is how they want you.

Couldn't agree more. The people making all the rules are just like you and me, but there is money and politics and control motivating their decisions to limit us. My decision to ride anyway is based upon informed logic and reasoning and has both temporal, financial, environmental and personal benefits. I lose the safety and protection of the law and a car but I gain enough to make it worth while. If you don't then don't ride. But if you're in their camp then go and sit in it; this is endless sphere and we push limits and share the information, then people build tamer builds off of the experience. To say that "people like John" are ruining it is blatantly ignoring their contribution to the forum and to the knowledge pool in general, and is mocking the very essence of the e-s.

The point is that motorcycle insurance and all auto insurance is just one more scam being forced on you. If you don't see it that's fine, but most of us do I think. For instance; in Ontario, ebike law is 32km/h limit on motor alone and 500w limiting accel. BUT. On a speed bike you are fully allowed to take a lane without shifters or brake lights all day if you want to and you can keep up. SO. Is being a bike at speed limit inherently dangerous? Apparently not according to Ontario law. So why can;t I use my motorised bike at those speeds, given that without pedalling and with 1000's of watts of accel and regen I am more maneuverable and alert then a speed bike at 60km/h? I would personally say that at 60km/h riding in lane as a motorcycle, brake lights and shifters would be a reasonable thing to require. BUT THEY DON'T! So why the speed limit on motor power? It is simple; it's an archaic law that assumes a bike going 60km/h on a motor is an electric scooter and weighs hundreds of pounds. Our bikes fall into a category that is not rigorously defined by law; that is the reason we are getting away with them. The reason we are living to tell the tale is that they are not inherently dangerous as the lawmakers would have you believe.

Maybe we should make a forum section for people who only want to use totally legal ebikes and only want to profit from information derived from other forum members using legal ebikes. That way they won't have to feel guilty about learning from the experience of all of us who are ruining the hobby for them.

[Ypedal]

I think it will vary greatly with what part of the planet you are on..

Out here, i'm a grain of sand within a desert. I have the bits, pieces and know how to build an insane machine but after pushing lightly on some of those limits i found my comfort in the 5 kw zone.. 30mph with throttle adjustments to spare.. ( I hate being at max throttle with no breathing room .. who drives a car that only goes speed limit ? )

The nature of the beast will self-regulate the niche simply due to battery tech being far into the distance before the mass market is ready for " fast and furious " wannabes.

Until 1 kw packs the size of a can of pop are available.. not going to be a problem.

[Sunder]

I'm clearly fighting a losing battle here - I thought I would be, but had to have a go anyway.

Had you been in the modified car scene before the F&F explosion, perhaps you'd feel more the way I do.

But I'm happy to leave it here. Just remember, in a year, two years, three years, when a police pulls you over and asks you to furnish proof that your bike is exempt from registration... It was probably some idiot on a high powered electric bike, weaving in and out of traffic, that prompted the local MPs to start scrutinizing every eBike.

[Ypedal]

It's the local idiots weaving in and out of traffic on bicycles that will cause me more grief.. not the powered one's. .. at least around here.

[MadRhino]

This is what I don't get... This is EXACTLY my point. Isn't John advocating getting high powered bikes to ride with the cars in a lane... Looking and behaving exactly like a motor cycle? A registered... Insured... Licenced.. Motor cycle?

Isn't this what we as a community want to stop?

Nope, not in my view of the community benefits. What we want to stop, is all those people burning gas to buy a quart of milk a quarter mile from their home, or drive an 4 X 4 SUV to commute alone in town. Those people are ruining our economy and environment without taking any risk, while the guy riding a bike in the traffic is risking his own life to be green, for the benefit of the community.