Best reason to get a high powered ebike NOW

[Andje]

It's drivers getting so used to it they are functioning on muscle memory and automatic pilot texting in traffic that are the real problem in ottawa IMHO. Also, drivers ed should specifically emphasize how to not turn right in front of a bike in your blind spot. Drivers who have never ridden bikes have no idea where bikes are, and bikers who haven't driven have no idea where they can't be seen.

[Sunder]

It's the local idiots weaving in and out of traffic on bicycles that will cause me more grief.. not the powered one's. .. at least around here.

Yeah - People Powered bikes here get a really bad rap as well - First from motorists from going too slow, and secondly from pedestrians for going too fast.

[Sunder]

This is what I don't get... This is EXACTLY my point. Isn't John advocating getting high powered bikes to ride with the cars in a lane... Looking and behaving exactly like a motor cycle? A registered... Insured... Licenced.. Motor cycle?

Isn't this what we as a community want to stop?

Nope, not in my view of the community benefits. What we want to stop, is all those people burning gas to buy a quart of milk a quarter mile from their home, or drive an 4 X 4 SUV to commute alone in town. Those people are ruining our economy and environment without taking any risk, while the guy riding a bike in the traffic is risking his own life to be green, for the benefit of the community.

That's definitely agreeable from a environmental and community point of view - But I'm thinking of a road rules and rule enforcement point of view.

I don't want all electric bikes to be treated as motorcycles. Nor do I want police looking at my bike too closely. When electric bikes start behaving like motorcycles, I believe the law will start treating them as such.

[flathill]

Bicycle registration is already coming to a Brazil (see movie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/) near you.

Here in San Francisco we are trying to stop it, but many drivers stuck in their cars have a pathological hate because we get across town twice as fast with no motors at all. You can bet they will vote to punish "hipster" bikers to get even. This has nothing to do with ebikes, but they want registration so they can ticket you and make you pay your fair share for road paving, etc. What a f'n joke. Why can the bikes roll the stop signs and I can't the cry babies stuck in traffic whine over and over. I admit growing up in the city I've never fully stopped at a stop sign ever, but I've never got a ticket until recently. I still don't fully stop at stop signs ever. I'm one of those a-holes who grew up skating where you never stop because we see the world in slow motion.

You can bet the law will pass in the name of safety but it is all about $$$. The ticket prices are so astronomical here for cars that they are beginning to see diminishing returns because people are actually starting to stop the California and stop speeding and watch the parking meter. Even the red light cameras are not so effective once people know where they are. They need a new target

http://blog.sfgate.com/transportation/2 ... for-bikes/
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... ss.cnevius

The media fear machine is in full swing to get people to hate bicyclists and demand tickets/registration
I agree with John
these are the glory days and
most don't even know it
enjoy it while you still can

[Sunder]

The media fear machine is in full swing to get people to hate bicyclists and demand tickets/registration
I agree with John
these are the glory days and
most don't even know it
enjoy it while you still can

These are glory days. Most don't know it. Enjoy it while you can, but try not to end them before they have to be ended, is what I say. So we're at least 80% in agreement.

[MadRhino]

I don't want all electric bikes to be treated as motorcycles. Nor do I want police looking at my bike too closely. When electric bikes start behaving like motorcycles, I believe the law will start treating them as such.

Ebikes will be treated as ebikes, don't worry about that. The home made lightweight E-motorcycles that we ride will be treated as motorcycles sooner or later, and we will be forced to buy licence and insurance, and conform with the rules. Some say the sooner the better, and some say "We have a free pass, lets do it now while we can". In the meantime, I believe that we deserve this free pass, for we are precursors of tomorrow's green transportation that will save our community from financial and environmental disaster.

[Sunder]

I don't want all electric bikes to be treated as motorcycles. Nor do I want police looking at my bike too closely. When electric bikes start behaving like motorcycles, I believe the law will start treating them as such.

Ebikes will be treated as ebikes, don't worry about that. The home made lightweight E-motorcycles that we ride will be treated as motorcycles sooner or later, and we will be forced to buy licence and insurance, and conform with the rules. Some say the sooner the better, and some say "We have a free pass, lets do it now while we can". In the meantime, I believe that we deserve this free pass, for we are precursors of tomorrow's green transportation that will save our community from financial and environmental disaster.

That - I think is probably the wisest response in this thread, including anything I've said. Kudos to you.

[shock]

I'm pretty sure 99% of the population here does not even know what an ebike is yet.. Including the law..

Everyone here is too busy flooring their corvettes, esclades, and hummers or dropping the hammer on their 68' fiberglass yachts with 2x twin turbo v-12's to really notice an ebike.

Honestly, I tell people around here I built an electric bike, and they treat me like a genius, as if the concept has never been attempted, let alone accomplished.

I've driven past plenty of cops and never have been stopped or questioned once. Although I'm pretty stealth and I pedal all the time, but still, I can roll a 5kw ebike around the tri county area all day, any day without any worry of harassment. (knocks on wood)

[flathill]

The machine is already in motion and the few of us outlaws on here won't make a bit a difference. We had a bicyclist run down an old lady last year and it was in the paper 5 times. Total outrage. This happens once every 5-10 years by a bike but 100+ times (not joking look up the precise stats) a year by cars/buses, and I'm talking the city only not the bay area.

[Sunder]

The machine is already in motion and the few of us outlaws on here won't make a bit a difference.

[Arlo1]

It's unfortunately people like John in CR that are going to ruin it for all of us.

Nope. He is embracing and using the best transportation method on the planet. Doing the right thing, and setting an example for it.
The problem is 100% in the minds of the police and lawmakers. Never stop doing the right thing because some idiots and their hired goons try to stop you.

Yeh we need to get the world to wake up to the problem. I had a few people say well bicycles need insurance and its going to come. frock THAT! The world needs less spending and more living. And This thread made me sad I BRICKED my lipo I have more and will be ordering more but for now I am ebike-less

[John in CR]

Sunder is obviously a lawyer, so forgive him. While sure there are small handfuls of other ebikes puttering around at grandma pedalist speeds, but they bring absolutely nothing to the table in terms of promoting the cause compared to my exposure. I go out of my way to make sure I never inconvenience a motorist, so they can have no complaints other than jealously that they're stuck in traffic while I'm not.

When it comes to the law, I fully accept that the 2 wheel EVs I ride will become some type of "motor vehicle", and as that time approaches I will be very proactive to ensure that DIY vehicles are easily registered as long as they meet a reasonable criteria.

My purpose of this post is about the meantime, and anyone who doesn't take advantage of the space that cars leave is truly missing out on a once in a lifetime opportunity. 5 or 10 years from now we'll all be complaining about the idiots on ebikes in our way, so in the meantime I-m taking full advantage of having all the space cars leave all to myself other than the relatively low percentage of it used by moto's, which I can hear from quite a ways away. It might still be good later, but not like it is now where we have incredible amounts of space all to ourselves.

John

[sn0wchyld]

I gotta agree 99% with what sunder's been saying... not to knuckle under and be scared of the fuzz and the law makers, but more to try and stay stealth as long as possible, because the longer we fly under the radar, the better it is for all of us and the longer it'll be before Johnny law clamps down on ebikes and even normal bikes in general.



I think it may also be very different depending on where you live... ie There's lots I like about Australia, but a few things I detest... as Sunder has pointed out. It used to be that cops were generally easy going even when you were doing something a bit silly (ie 'being kids'), and would at worst kindly ask you to stop/move on etc. now its getting ridiculous, and stupid 'entertainment news' like TT and ACA aren't helping. I could list off a dozen or so incidents recently where cops have pulled me up for the most trivial BS, or for no reason at all just cause its become 'acceptable' or 'necessary' for them to show their legal muscle. Ie a couple months back, me and a few other pedestrians are crossing the street, and stop on the median strip to wait for a cop car to pass before walking the rest of the way... as we step of the curb the cop hits the breaks hard, reverses about 15m to block our path and threatens with a fine $hundreds for not crossing at the lights... wtf? He's got me and others standing in the middle of a busy road, holding up traffic behind him while he lectures us about safely crossing the road, all while keeping us standing in the middle of one?!

I've spent allot of time living in Canada, and I can honestly say cops over there seem far less stressed/on a power trip than here... ie even when a pair of cops saw a bunch of guys smoking a Joint in the street, they merely walked up calmly and told them to put it out and go smoke at home/where kids/family's aren't around. Just seemed so pleasant and reasonable!

Put it this way, im generally wary of cops in Australia, I'd certainly never risk smiling or waving at any as they walked past in case they see me as being suspicious (yes, ive actually been pulled over for waving, not at cops but to get the attention of friends across the street)... In Canada though I'd feel 100% comfortable going up to one to ask for directions or help. Thats my experience anyway...



So yea, sorry for the rant, guess I needed to get some of that off my chest. As I said earlier in this topic, get out and ride, have fun while you can, but try and keep it under the radar as much as possible, not just because dealing with the fuz can be a royal PITA, but because its only a matter of time before some dero on a ICE or E bike kills himself and maybe others, or acts like a dick infront of the law. And then the fun free riding will be over very quickly!

It's unfortunately people like John in CR that are going to ruin it for all of us.

Nope. He is embracing and using the best transportation method on the planet. Doing the right thing, and setting an example for it.

100% agree up to this point.

The problem is 100% in the minds of the police and lawmakers. Never stop doing the right thing because some idiots and their hired goons try to stop you.

I think we all agree that the police and lawmakers have set limits too low. No question about that.

But advocating we rub it in their faces and say "What are they going to do, arrest us all"? That's profound disrespect for the law - even a law that isn't fair.

Sooner or later - Someone, any one person will hit a kid and cause paraplegia There is no doubt, that someone will point out if the bike rider hadn't been riding at 40km/h and had a bike that weighed 30+kg, then this accident would have been avoided or far less serious. Ergo, the problem was not a bad luck accident, a single foolish rider, but actually the bike itself as at fault.

A typical pay out for that is in the range of 10 to 75 million. Without compulsory registration and insurance, that person will be bankrupt, and that kid will be left uncompensated, and this will make the news and force legislators to register and insure all powered bikes. And with registration, there will probably be annual checks, just like they have cars here.

The issue is not obeying a law which is unreasonable - my bike is also capable of more than 200 continuous, 250 peak. My issue flaunting it in front of police, and "making the most of it" while we can get away with it. That attitude, I know is what gets the back up of police and will make them come down on us with the full force of the unreasonable law.

[sn0wchyld]

Sunder is obviously a lawyer, so forgive him. While sure there are small handfuls of other ebikes puttering around at grandma pedalist speeds, but they bring absolutely nothing to the table in terms of promoting the cause compared to my exposure. I go out of my way to make sure I never inconvenience a motorist, so they can have no complaints other than jealously that they're stuck in traffic while I'm not.

When it comes to the law, I fully accept that the 2 wheel EVs I ride will become some type of "motor vehicle", and as that time approaches I will be very proactive to ensure that DIY vehicles are easily registered as long as they meet a reasonable criteria.

My purpose of this post is about the meantime, and anyone who doesn't take advantage of the space that cars leave is truly missing out on a once in a lifetime opportunity. 5 or 10 years from now we'll all be complaining about the idiots on ebikes in our way, so in the meantime I-m taking full advantage of having all the space cars leave all to myself other than the relatively low percentage of it used by moto's, which I can hear from quite a ways away. It might still be good later, but not like it is now where we have incredible amounts of space all to ourselves.

John

Amen. it is a once in a lifetime opp for sure!

[MikeFairbanks]

It's unfortunately people like John in CR that are going to ruin it for all of us.

No, you guys ruined it for yourselves with all those crazy, outback antics. There was the bald guy who had a pet man on a chain, and they were all trying to invade the petroleum refining station. All those guys were screaming, yelling, making a noise and without Max they'd have succeeded, and they really messed the dude up along the way.

I forget if they killed his dog. They killed his wife and kid, but not sure about the dog.

And what was that nonsense with Tina Turner?

Let's not get started on the Wiggles. That really fouled up the universe (I had to buy everything for my kids after my Aussie "friends" turned them on to it. Concerts, CDs, videos, etc.

It's no wonder they don't want you guys driving anything. Between Max, the bald dude in the dune buggy, and the Wiggles, you guys can't be trusted.


The only reason the USA hasn't nuked Australia is because of AC/DC. I had a huge batch of anthrax ready to send to every registered postal user in Oz until a buddy told me Angus Young was Australian.

You don't know how close of a call you had.




In all seriousness, you guys have strict laws. Americans are not nearly as law-abiding as Aussies. We probably get more murders a day than you get in a year, and that's probably just in each U.S. state.

[MikeFairbanks]

That said, I ride stealthy. I don't want people to know I'm riding an ebike unless I tell them.

[sn0wchyld]

Let's not get started on the Wiggles. That really fouled up the universe (I had to buy everything for my kids after my Aussie "friends" turned them on to it. Concerts, CDs, videos, etc.

It's no wonder they don't want you guys driving anything. Between Max, the bald dude in the dune buggy, and the Wiggles, you guys can't be trusted.

LMFAO

[Phoebus]

Enthusiasts on high powered ebikes tend to be quite conscientious and safe. Casual users on slow ebikes will kill themselves and others in large numbers. Just as they do with cars and motorcycles.

I would love to be able to have liability insurance for my ebike. Registration not so much...

Honestly don't expect this to ever be much issue in Southern California... Too many cars, too much open space, ebikes will likely never catch on in any meaningful way here. 20mi between casual destinations is not good for ebikes.

By some estimates there are 120 million e-bikes on China's roads—up from just 50,000 a decade ago, making it the fastest growing form of transportation in China. Cities at first embraced them as a quieter and cleaner alternative to gasoline-powered scooters.

Officials were caught off guard when that environmentally appealing solution turned out to be deadly on the streets. In 2007, there were 2,469 deaths from electric-bicycle accidents nationwide, up from just 34 in 2001, according to government statistics...

The deaths led to a backlash. Beijing and Fuzhou banned electric bikes in 2002. Beijing lifted its ban in 2006.

More cities decided they'd had enough. The northeast industrial town of Shenyang banned e-bikes in 2009 after their numbers spiked in the wake of a motorcycle ban.

Over the summer, Changsha city traffic police set up checkpoints and handed out 60,000 tickets in five days for e-bikes that violated weight and speed restrictions, or didn't have proper registration.

In Zhejiang province, Hangzhou banned out-of-town e-bikes; in Wenzhou, police confiscated 5,000 electric bikes in half a month for being too fast and large.

[shock]

Enthusiasts on high powered ebikes tend to be quite conscientious and safe. Casual users on slow ebikes will kill themselves and others in large numbers. Just as they do with cars and motorcycles.

I think this sums up everything quite well. You can't fix stupid.

[John in CR]

Out here, i'm a grain of sand within a desert. I have the bits, pieces and know how to build an insane machine but after pushing lightly on some of those limits i found my comfort in the 5 kw zone.. 30mph with throttle adjustments to spare.. ( I hate being at max throttle with no breathing room .. who drives a car that only goes speed limit ? )

I'm with you Ypedal. I weigh a lot more so I need a 7-8kw machine to be fun and zippy in the 30-40mph range with headroom. The guys on anything close to street legal where there are rules just have no idea what they're missing.

Get out and zip while we can, because people like Sunder are sure to stick their noses where they aren't welcome and implement rules "for our own good". By then lot's of other ebikes will be on the road and much of the fun will be gone anyway. FWIW afaic Sunder's drunk buddies can all take the bus. They were irresponsible as drivers and don't deserve ebikes, because that's rewarding the behavior.

Also, anyone who thinks I'm a detriment to the cause in any fashion whatsoever is simply ignorant of the facts. Come and ride with me for a week to understand. People see what my bikes do and chat me up daily about how to get one and how much. For 3 years I've had to put them off with the truth, that we're all waiting on battery prices to come down.

Screw stealth. That's for electric assist pedal bicycles that aren't a whole lot more useful than a pedal only bicycle. The really useful and far more fun vehicle is a much higher power ebike with human assist. There's a gulf of difference between the 2, and pedalists who refuse to try the latter simply miss out. Sure there's a market for electric assists, but it's dwarfed by what people will really want, which is more power.

[John in CR]

Enthusiasts on high powered ebikes tend to be quite conscientious and safe. Casual users on slow ebikes will kill themselves and others in large numbers. Just as they do with cars and motorcycles.

I think this sums up everything quite well. You can't fix stupid.

Sure you can. Just let stupid run its natural course. It cures itself. The nanny state proponents just don't get it. Trying to protect people from themselves is an impossible task.

[Arlo1]

Enthusiasts on high powered ebikes tend to be quite conscientious and safe. Casual users on slow ebikes will kill themselves and others in large numbers. Just as they do with cars and motorcycles.

I think this sums up everything quite well. You can't fix stupid.

Sure you can. Just let stupid run its natural course. It cures itself. The nanny state proponents just don't get it. Trying to protect people from themselves is an impossible task.

Impossible task that the "Rules" are slowing down a natural process of! Let the stupid ween themselves out and walla the rest of us can grow as a society

[sn0wchyld]

.........

Sure you can. Just let stupid run its natural course. It cures itself. The nanny state proponents just don't get it. Trying to protect people from themselves is an impossible task.

Impossible task that the "Rules" are slowing down a natural process of! Let the stupid ween themselves out and walla the rest of us can grow as a society

if only it could be so!

[MadRhino]

It is the natural course of the evolution, that stupidity cures itself by attrition. I like to read the latest Darwin awards, so funny how stupid people can find new ways of excluding themselves from the gene pool. Yet, it is also a natural course of evolution, that some who survive stupidity are getting better and better at being stupid.

[Jason27]

Okay I'm going to add to this conversation that you guys need to stop building your bikes so crazy looking with lipo packs and wires sticking out everywhere. It's just ridiculous.

You need as stealth as ebikes as possible so the police have no reason to stop you.