Hi power electric ducted fans

[Arlo1]

I am looking to build something cool
But I need to design a hi power edf I basicly need ~100-300 lbs thrust from 2-6 edf systems.
Where can I lern more about good edf design?

[liveforphysics]

Sadly, even a big RC EDF like this one can only do about 6lbs of thrust

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=14788

Which means you're going to need to go to non-RC parts, and things are going to be extremely pricey.


If you want a ton of thrust with minimal power, if you can use a propeller rather than an EDF you could get SOOOOO much more thrust for a given power in.

[Tiberius]

Arlo,

Other things being equal, thrust increases with diameter.
A properly working ducted fan gives the same thrust as a slightly larger diameter propeller.

This one is 900 mm. It's not electric but I measured it at 108 kg thrust.

Claydon_P_04_0069.JPG (37.12 KiB) Viewed 3677 times

Nick

[etard]

Knowing your previous exploits Arlo, I'm going to venture a guess and say you are building a 1/3 scale airplane that you ride on like a surfboard and wear a silver skin tight suit?

[Arlo1]

Knowing your previous exploits Arlo, I'm going to venture a guess and say you are building a 1/3 scale airplane that you ride on like a surfboard and wear a silver skin tight suit?

lol black cape

[Arlo1]

Sadly, even a big RC EDF like this one can only do about 6lbs of thrust

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=14788

Which means you're going to need to go to non-RC parts, and things are going to be extremely pricey.


If you want a ton of thrust with minimal power, if you can use a propeller rather than an EDF you could get SOOOOO much more thrust for a given power in.

Once you get away from hobby king you can find them a little higher thrust. I found 6kg with a 120mm dia 6 of them would get me ~ the same thrust to weight ratio as a 747 but I want vertical takeoffs!
I found some $2000 edf motors that kick ass I can't remember the specs but I will find a link to them, but they are still not quite what I need.

[Arlo1]

I have accepted the fact I might need to design and engineer what I need my self so part of the reason for this thread is to lern how a edf works!

[Arlo1]

Found these guys who make CF edf systems up to 10kg thrust so 22 lbs 10 of them would be ok
http://www.ductedfans.com/Schuebeler_%2 ... 0Fans.html

[whatever]

arlo italiano
how about get an fisher paykel motor, modify windings into parallel, replace ceramic mags with neos, maybe rewind if not enough oooomph,
and make a damn big ducted fan, or just use with a prop, basically you would be building a dr eck motor, which I suspect is modelled on the fp motor anyway ( has same number of poles/mags), should be good up to around 15kw or so

[kenkad]

I have also been interested in something in the size of a 16-18 inch ducted fan driven by a cogged belt, counter rotating units on either side of a personal air vehicle, like the flynano, driven by a single electric motor. I am seriously considering purchasing the blades from Hobby-Lobby (you can get normal and reversing in the same size) and designing a hub that can accept a 5 or 6 blade assembly. I wondered how to contact someone like AeroNaut to find out if they can very accurately trim the prop tip. I cannot find their website, only their distributors. Has anyone else considered this approach?
kenkad

[bigmoose]

Arlo, at it again I see! Carbon fiber props with the scimitar shape are the most efficient thrust producers. NASA shrouded scimitar props for noise reduction 23 or so years ago, and it evolved into the high bypass ratio GE90 turbofan in the years that followed. Shrouds are places to put noise abatement material. The shroud creates drag. Good for silencing noisy low bypass turbofans, but not optimum for thrust optimized performance trades. If you want thrust performance you get it from a lot of air moving with a small delta V versus a smaller amount of air with a greater delta V.

[Arlo1]

Cool Bigmoose. for now Im just re searching but in a few months I plan to start this build. As for the way things look I will be making my own mold. I and looking into one of lukes CNC kits or something like that so I can cnc the prop mold out of aluminum. I would be fine with speeds below 100 mph lol proly even below 50mph but I need to figure out wing size vs speed and lift first!

[Gordo]

Cool Bigmoose. for now Im just re searching but in a few months I plan to start this build. As for the way things look I will be making my own mold. I and looking into one of lukes CNC kits or something like that so I can cnc the prop mold out of aluminum. I would be fine with speeds below 100 mph lol proly even below 50mph but I need to figure out wing size vs speed and lift first!

Go straight out the alley onto 5th, turn right and go to the house on the left with the sailboat in the yard. That guy has been building ducted fans for 30 years that I know of. There are some of his working vehicles around there under tarps.
The best example of the prop bigmoose is describing is on the CarterCopter.

http://www.cartercopters.com/

My WAG is Arlo has discovered WIGS or Hovercraft/WIG hybrid. I'll see if I can get a discount on a headstone from Zenon.

[Science Faction]

Hi Arlo,

The guys at trek aero seem to have the software/consultancy you require for ducted fan design.
http://www.trekaero.com/Trek_Strategic_Alliances.htm
The graphs are quite informative.
Cheers
Paul

[Arlo1]

Hey cool thanks. I am still planning this But I just put it back a ways on the list. Since we got our house I have been going hard on finishing projects that have been long over due and the list is finally down to ~4 items from 27! Once I do our house Reno's and get the last few items complete on the list I will add this to the list and get going on it!. But I did find thin gap motors have some promising info as well. http://www.thingap.com/

[Arlo1]

I know these are not ducted but still cool

[Hillhater]

Vertical take off with a ducted fan is a big ask !
The Moller "Aerocar" is one of the few DF vertical lift vehicles and it uses 4 high power, light weight, specially developed rotary ICE motors .. probably 500+ bhp !
now , i am sure you wont need that sort of power but you will be in the extreme end of RC/ electric drive, needing high voltage and high current...which of course means big battery ( and more weight !)
I suspect this may be much trickier than you think !

[cboeres]

The best thrust I've been able to find is with the Aeronaut turbofan 8000. Like the Schuebeler also made in Germany. It's $479 US at http://www.icare-rc.com/edf.htm claim is 26lbs of thrust from 145mm edf. I think that we're looking at a 200 mm plus rig, something like 25k watts and up. I'm looking for the 100 plus lbs range too, Hoffman Magnetics is the only U.S. manufacturer I've found so far but they may be out of business. It looks like the custom shop is your best bet, let me know what you find out from the guy up the street from the guy with the sailboat in the yard. Sounds like your guy.

[cboeres]

More like a 300 mm EDF to get to 100lbs thrust

[nechaus]

Id love a ducted fan jetpack

[whatever]

i came across a video of testing of the dr eck motor with propellor, they were getting somewhere around 50lbs, dr eck motor is ( in my opinion) a knock off ( copy ) of the fischer paykel motor ( same dia, number stator teeth etc), sorry didn't keep the link, will see if I can find it again

[whatever]

heres the vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luiyxTRyN0E&feature=related
looks like it was 54kg thrust not pounds ( about 120pounds of thrust)
12kw, 140cm prop

[whatever]

this one using inrunner not sure of brand and reduction belt drive, 150cm prop, 7kw, 41kg thrust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVBRvsTenVI&feature=channel&list=UL

[voicecoils]

thinking of building a hoverbike?


http://www.hover-bike.com

Perhaps more of a shrouded propeller arrangement then ducted fan design...still cool and gorgeous in person.

[whatever]

what happens if you have controller failure on hoverbike?