anyone test drive a Busettii's in LA yet?

[blissisebike]

The post made by THEFLYINGHANDLEBAR is both helpful and pertinent x 12 since there was heavy hands on use of 12 of the bikes. One would think that the company would try exceedingly hard to honor the warranty to you since surely they could foresee posts similar to what you made if their product came up short.

I suspected there was way more hype and fluff than real substance surrounding these bikes. But how could I or anyone else want to put money in one of these bikes after what you report from giving 12 of them a shot?!?!?

Amberwolf, you were spot on in addressing one by one the questions I asked. My reading of the website and the details about how these magical motors could deliver power at seemingly unreal draw rates prompted that post. You obviously have the knowledge to answer with authority the points my non-technical background already knew could not be right. Great style in your posting and in addressing with clarity.

[Pharther Phurther]

My friend has got one.

He's a 'heavy' rider .. and snapped the chain about a week into it.

There is some motor / chain / gear noise.

Haven't been riding together recently so I don't know much more

I personally don't like the 'mountain bike' feel .. but my friend doesn't mind.

[blissisebike]

The snapped chain seems about par for the course based on the experience of the fleet owner who used 12 of these bikes.

Is your friend's Busetti one of the hub motor models or is it the bottom bracket motor model called the Vortex?

[Pharther Phurther]

Vortex

[LA Bike Fanatic]

Yes I have test drove almost all of the Busettii Bikes. Maybe 3 years ago in the beginning some bikes still had some glitches BUT the bikes Busettii puts out now are really great. Their 48 volt batteries are running at 52 volts and so are their motors and controllers. The one exception is the Vortex bike which runs at 38 volts because it has a real built in transmission that auto shifts when needed.
The 52 volt bikes are the Big 50 Mile bike, Mini 40 mile bike and the Super 50 models. The great thing about the new Busettii 3 phase motors is that they can run at 600 watts on flats, 900 watts on hills, 1400 watts on steep hills and then go back down to 600 on the flats again. This phase shifting keeps the battery and motor very cool and not much energy is lost as heat ( on normal motors and batteries 30--40% is lost as heat). Our riding results were as follows:
Big 50 Mile bike: 47 miles no pedaling, 63 miles in pedal assit mode. Was able to climb a mile long 16 degree slope at about 15 mph steady speed no pedaling.
Mini 40 Mile folding bike: 36 miles no pedaling, 52 miles in pedal assist mode, one mile 16 degree slope at 13 mph no pedaling. after climbing the slope we checked the motor, battery and controller temp. they were all at about air temp. which was 92 degrees. The only bike we ever tried that doesn't get real hot on the upslopes. The torque output in phase 3 is almost 60 ft. lbs. thats as much as a E+ 1000 watt monster motor.
Vortex by Busettii: we got 55 miles no pedaling , 78 miles in pedal assist mode medium. Going up the 1 mile 16 degree slope the speed was 11 mph and the motor and battery were a very cool 95 degrees temp. Most bikes we have tried heat up to about 145--155 on the motor and controller and about 125 on the battery. That is all wasted heat as energy. All bikes that we test are same conditions: steady 15 mph speed, flat course ( except the hill test), 160--170 lbs. rider, wheels and brakes are adjusted properly. The Big 50 had the 52 volt 13.5 ah battery and the Vortex had the 38 volt 2 x 10 ah battery = 20 ah.
If you can eliminate waste from heat on motors and batteries then you should get 30--40% more distance per charge. Also these bikes only weigh 48--58 lbs. thats 20--30 lbs. lighter than E+ or BMC based bikes. We only tested these bikes for 3 weeks but we put over 1000 miles on them in this time. Not one glitch or problem even when we had to go very hilly courses. Busettii did move there production line to the USA 18 months ago from China because of quality problems. I think made in the USA does have some benefits here. So far its the best bike I have tested under $ 3000. If you have questions write to me at e-bike@e-bike-reviews.com Thanks, The LA Biker

[E-racer]

One day a company is going to start from scratch and do this thing right... Almost like Honda did when they first entered the US w/ light motorbikes. Until that day we are stuck with this kind of crap. This is why we build our own stuff here @ ES.

[amberwolf]

The great thing about the new Busettii 3 phase motors is that they can run at 600 watts on flats, 900 watts on hills, 1400 watts on steep hills and then go back down to 600 on the flats again.

I think you are probably not saying it the way you mean to, because requiring 600W just on the flats is a heck of a lot of power. My 300lb (rider+bike) CrazyBike2 might take that much to cruise at 20MPH. (less, actualy, IIRC)

Also, those numbers do not correlate with the numbers you give below for a test. If you went 15MPH at 600W with a 608Wh pack, you would only go 15 miles, with an efficiency of only 40.5Wh/mile, which is much worse than my heavy Crazybike2's 26-30Wh/mile, and that's given that my bike is in stop/start traffic at 20MPH over only a couple of miles or so (over longer distances with fewer stops/starts it is more efficient).

To go 55 miles with that same 608Wh pack, you would have to be only drawing a bit more than 1/4 of that, around 163W.

A motor outputting only 163W isn't going to get very hot, typically, even if it is very inefficient, and the same is true of it's controller and battery. So this is why you are seeing lower temperatures on those systems.

Let's say it is only 80% efficient, so that 32W of heat is produced. That will pretty easily be dissipated by airflow past the motor during a ride, so it shouldn't get very hot. So the motor does not have to be any more efficient than any other ebike motor, in order to stay cool.

So the reason those are staying cool isn't necessarily because they are that much more efficient than others, but rather that they are using very little power.

Also, since you don't state the ambient temperature, it is difficult to even estimate how much waste heat is being produced (which could probably be guesstimated by knowing the difference between ambient and motor temperatures, for those that know how to do the math on that).

Vortex by Busettii: we got 55 miles no pedaling ,
<snip>
All bikes that we test are same conditions: steady 15 mph speed, flat course ( except the hill test), 160--170 lbs. rider, wheels and brakes are adjusted properly.
<snip>
the Vortex had the 38 volt 2 x 10 ah battery = 20 ah.

So that's 760Wh total. Let's call it 80% DOD on that for 608Wh usable, to give a safety margin and not kill the cells (depending on what they are you might need more or less margin).

608Wh / 55 miles = 11Wh/mile. That would be fairly efficient. I assume this is with no stops and starts (except at the beginning and end) given that it doesnt' mention any in the conditions. So it would be somewhat worse efficiency in normal traffic conditions, requiring a lot of stops and starts, such as my ~2.2mile work commute that has around a dozen full stops and starts in it.

My guess is that it would go up to maybe 13-15Wh/mile ridden in the same commute pattern I do on CrazyBike2, which is flat, just a lot of stops and starts.

I dont' know how much it would go up to ride it at 20MPH, but probably because of wind resistance it would be another 2-5Wh/mile in addition to the above, at a guess.


The data on the Big50 is similar, though less efficient, at about 12Wh/mile. I can't say for the Mini40 because there is no battery data for it, but I expect it is similar.

[ambroseliao]

Hmmmmm,

First post and it's everything you want to know about a product and lots of marketing material. Forgive my skepticism, but do you have a financial interest in Busetti bikes?

47 miles with 52V and 13.5AH? That's not remotely credible unless you're going at 5 miles an hour on flat roads.

[E-racer]

Hmmmmm,

First post and it's everything you want to know about a product and lots of marketing material. Forgive my skepticism, but do you have a financial interest in Busetti bikes?

47 miles with 52V and 13.5AH? That's not remotely credible unless you're going at 5 miles an hour on flat roads.

with a tail wind.

[gogo]

His address: e-bike@e-bike-reviews.com

http://e-bike-reviews.com/

This site is under construction.

[ambroseliao]

His address: e-bike@e-bike-reviews.com

http://e-bike-reviews.com/

This site is under construction.

I did a Whois lookup of that site and funny, but the email address of the admin is... Wait for it...

Bike@busettii.com

You'll never guess what Busettii.com is for.

[ambroseliao]

This guy claims his bikes, motors, and batteries are made in the USA. Yet you can clearly see Chinese characters stamped on the motor cover. While your there, check out the quality welds and stamped steel crank cover. Also the quality seat post.

http://busettii.com/vortex-mountain-ebi ... m6086.html

He uses Microvast batteries which are made in China.

http://www.microvast.com/contact/

[Ykick]

Alan Partee, is that you?

And I was beginning to think the Prodeco folks were shill thread experts...

[cal3thousand]

Sad thing is...

Only the folks who know their science and craft are going to catch the falsities. Unfortunately, the common man will be sold

[ambroseliao]

I hope that buyers of these POS ebikes don't end up thinking that all ebikes are of the same quality!

As the old adage states, you get what you pay for.

[LA Bike Fanatic]

My Busettii Bike has been great so far. Been riding 7 months now and its still getting about 46--50 miles per charge. I have tried many e bikes and I own 4 so far. The great thing about Busettii is the awesome hill climbing power and smooth quiet motor. The acceleration is faster than others and the auto pedal and throttle are both integrated in a nice way to help cruise at about 26 mph without any problems. I think I will add disc brakes later But it still stops pretty good now. If I cruise at 15 mph I get about 50 miles per charge no pedaling BUT if I run it the throttle wide open at 23 mph I only get about 38 miles per charge. That still is great because my other e-bikes only go about 10 miles at that speed. Next I want to buy a Vortex because I have 3 friends riding that one and they really like it. Anyone can contact me with questions at jamie1955french@gmail.com for I think Busettii has made some good stuff and I have tested many of them.
I have seen comments here suggesting that a Busettii 600 watt motor can't go 50 miles on a 52 volt 15 ah battery--- Hogwash ! I put an meter on my Busettii Motor and its using about 265 watts to hold a steady 15 mph speed under which its tested so if I ride like that for 3.3 hours it does bring me to about 50 miles and a fully discharged battery. The big difference is in heavy stop and go riding. I still get about 38 miles per charge and if I go on a very hilly course I get about 34 miles. Compared to my other 4 e-bikes that I have this is great mileage. Happy to find this great E bike site ! Jamie

[ambroseliao]

Hi E Bike Lover. Forgive me for sounding like a broken record, but another first post and another glowing review and another claim that the bike goes 50 miles on a charge. Ridiculous. Please stop signing on with different names and trying to make your bikes sound like amazing mileage wonders. You sound identical to LA Bike Fanatic in this post:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29822&start=15#p545609

I bet a check of your IP addresses will prove that you are one in the same! Please decist and be gone! No matter how much you want to sell these POS machines and make ridiculous claims, they are impossible and outrageous.

[SamTexas]

No way you will get 65 miles off a 19 Ah pack with no pedaling unless you are going 5 mph or downhill the whole time. So, take that number with a grain of salt. Makes me wonder what else are they exaggerating about.

Come on, it's not that big of an exaggeration. In fact it's perfectly doable at a reasonable speed.

It takes 125W to run a 220lbs mountain bike at 13mph on flat ground on a calm day. Assuming 80% efficiency, the actual power is 156W.
Battery capacity = 38*20 = 760Wh
760 / 156 = 4.87hrs
4.87hrs * 13mph = 63 miles.

[ambroseliao]

You and I both know it's impossible to ride at less than 1/3rd of the power of the bike when you have flat level ground for almost 5 hours. You'd have to be someone with unlimited amounts of time and the need to stretch your mileage just to prove a point. It's much more realistic to get there at near full throttle in half the time. In which case, you wouldn't get there (63 miles) at all!

My point is not only that it's impossible, my point is also that this guy is a stooge for or the owner of Busettii bikes and is writing a testimonial for his own products as he's done before.

[SamTexas]

I can only speak for myself, ambroseliao. I have 5 ebikes so far, and only one of them was built for speed (dual 9c 2807, 40mph top speed). The one built for speed is fun but also is the one LEAST used. I don't enjoy being on a bicycle and not pedaling. I hate fake pedaling too. So I ride my other 4 ebikes at around 18mph average with me contributing about 50% of the required power. That's 120W from me and 120W from the motor. The motor is a 9c 2807 rated at 500W, so 120W is less than 1/4 of what it's capable of. As for time, yes, I do have unlimited time. When I get on my bicycle (electrified or not), it's for pleasure. There is never a rush for me.

I do understand that most people here on ES use ebikes as if they were a scooter or a motorcycle. But ES members are not in anyway representative of the ebike community.

No, I'm not siding with Busettii. I was simply saying that their range claim was not greatly exaggerated. But let's face the reality: Let's say they change the range from 65 to 32.5 miles. Would everyone agree that the new range is realistic. Of course not. Right here on this board, we have guys that brag about their 50wh/mi or even higher consumption rate.

[ambroseliao]

I understand your point. Do you understand mine about having stooges or disguising yourself as a user when you are really the owner?

[SamTexas]

I do.

[ambroseliao]

Thanks!

I guess some people would rather go far than go fast. Who knew!

[amberwolf]

Hi E Bike Lover. Forgive me for sounding like a broken record, but another first post and another glowing review and another claim that the bike goes 50 miles on a charge. Ridiculous. Please stop signing on with different names and trying to make your bikes sound like amazing mileage wonders. You sound identical to LA Bike Fanatic in this post:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 15#p545609

I bet a check of your IP addresses will prove that you are one in the same! Please decist and be gone! No matter how much you want to sell these POS machines and make ridiculous claims, they are impossible and outrageous.

It does in fact show the same IP address for both, so I have reassigned the post from "E Bike Lover" to "LA Bike Fanatic", and banned both usernames for creation of duplicate accounts for the purpose of spamming the forum.

[Ykick]

Thanks AW.

My editorial about this is we all want to see eBikes flourish and prosper but with honesty and integrity. Not only with regard to performance claims but this "shill" nonsense as well. Had these people just been honest about their product and identities from the beginning ES exposure could probably help them.

Now however, they're totally in the shit house around here and potential customers who seek eBike purchase information will find this company to be dishonest lowlifes. What a way to squander a golden opportunity! Sad, sad, sad...