I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.

I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby Victorious1 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:08 am

Please tell me if I am thinking right here. I need a little more range from my GIO 500W+ which is currently equipped with 4 lead/acid batteries 48 volts with 20 ah output per battery. I do not want more speed as cops are all over here, I just want to be able to reliably get back and forth to my destination and back home again on one charge. I was able to make 33.5 km on one single charge but had to walk the bike the last 2 blocks to get home. I was wearing a full coverage helmet, had a small, 20 pound dog on the bike with me and I weigh about 280 pounds. I would have pedaled the bike home but the darn pedals kept falling off and my wife kept laughing at me hysterically when I pedalled the bike, said I looked like a duck waddlin' down the road. How dare her. :lol: Anyway, Im thinking that I could increase my range by adding 1 or 2 extra, identical, batteries in parallel to the pack, but, what I don't know is what will happen to the system with all this extra current available.

a) Can the motor and controller take the extra current available, especially since I have a shunt in the controller (2.7" long, .060" dia.) or will I burn things up, including the wiring. All connectors have been carefully inspected and all connectors have been soldered to the wire ends.

b) How will charging be affected? I have the stock GIO charger, the one that is well vented and has a built in cooling fan. Does this stock charger have the ability to charge the extra battery if hooked in parallel?

I'm wide open to suggestions and recommendations because all this electric bike stuff is new to me but I have been around, cars, trucks and motorcycles all my life, fixing and improving them so I have a pretty good handle on sorting out the tech stuff if explained properly to me.

Any and all help on this, very important to me issue, will be greatly apreciated and I am hoping to share my knowledge and experience here as time goes on. I had a lot of info stored on the GIObikes forum but they lost it all in a crash and had no backup, so sad for everyone there. Have a great day.

Vic
Last edited by Victorious1 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby TylerDurden » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:22 am

Victorious1 wrote:48 volts with 20 amps output per battery
You prolly mean 20Ah - twenty amp-hours. That's capacity, not current. You will need 4 additional batteries to make 48V to parallel into your pack... e.g. 40Ah total, if you added the same size batteries.

The current should not be any different. (current=torque)

Charging will take longer.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby deardancer3 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:27 am

welcome !!

The weight and size of your batteries must be pretty big!

However, I would say that improving your bikes ability to be pedalled would be a help to your range improvement. And adding more wight to your bike via more lead batteries, ( discharged to well below 50% capacity) is really not a great way to go- their lifetime is going to be pretty short.

what country are you riding in?

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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby TylerDurden » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:29 am

deardancer3 wrote:However, I would say that improving your bikes ability to be pedalled would be a help to your range improvement.

It's a scooter. The pedals are a cruel joke.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby Victorious1 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:36 am

TylerDurden wrote:
deardancer3 wrote:However, I would say that improving your bikes ability to be pedalled would be a help to your range improvement.

It's a scooter. The pedals are a cruel joke.


Wow, you hit that one on the nail head. They would have been much better off making my scooter with front wheel drive and using the handlebars for pedals so they'd be usable at least.

BTW, I made changes to reflect the ampere hour of the battery correctly and I placed my location in my profile so you know where I'm located.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby TylerDurden » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:50 am

If you like using the bike enough to sink some cash into it, consider some lithium batteries. Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are not the most powerful, but relatively safe and much, much lighter than SLA (Sealed Lead Acid).

The initial cost is much higher than PbA, but the lifespan is much longer, so it is more cost effective to use LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate ) if you intend to use the scooter regularly for the next few years.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby amberwolf » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:50 am

Victorious1 wrote:I need a little more range from my GIO 500W+ which is currently equipped with 4 lead/acid batteries 48 volts with 20 ah output per battery.

Your best bet is to replace that very heavy SLA with lighter batteries, like a Ping 48V 20Ah, which will weigh less *and* actually give you a lot closer to 20Ah than the SLA do. The SLA are probably only giving you at best 10Ah for the nearly 50lbs of battery you're carrying around. Even a 48V 15Ah Ping will give you more range for a lot less weight.

Adding more SLA may actually decrease your range especially if the bike and rider/cargo is already heavy, and you have to deal with hills or lots of stops and starts.


I just want to be able to reliably get back and forth to my destination and back home again on one charge.

Another issue is that if you are not recharging your SLA at your destination, then they are sitting in that discharged state for however long you are there, and that is degrading them simply by sitting in that state. They'll be decreasing in lifetime and in capacity because of that--exactly how much depends on how long they sit, how they are made inside, temperatures, how far discharged they are, etc.

So any other SLA you add may increase range for a short time, but then as they are damaged by not recharging immediately, more each cycle, your range will continue to drop until it becomes less than you need. :(

I would have pedaled the bike home but the darn pedals kept falling off

If the pedals are falling off you *REALLY* need to go over the entire bike and do basic maintenance to it, before something else does, too, and ends up causing you to crash. If they are falling off not because of bolts/nuts being tight, etc, but rather because of design or manufacturing problems, you might want to fix those problems before continuing to ride, and check the whole bike over for other such problems. I build my stuff from recycled parts and often have problems because of it, and I can tell you it is no fun at all when they happen in traffic or whatever, or far from home. :(

Anyway, Im thinking that I could increase my range by adding 1 or 2 extra, identical, batteries in parallel to the pack, but, what I don't know is what will happen to the system with all this extra current available.

Since SLA come in 12V blocks, then you must add 4 of them in the same configuration your originals are, to have 48V, if you want to add them in parallel.

If you add less than that, you msut add them in series instead, which will raise the voltage of your whole pack, and may damage or destroy your bike's electronics if they are not rated for that. You would need to check if they can take that (my guess is probably not), and upgrade the electronics if they can't.

So you would have 4 original SLA in series for 48V, plus another 4 SLA also in separate series for 48V, with teh two wired in parallel at their end terminals.

a) Can the motor and controller take the extra current available,

There is no extra current (A) just by adding batteries. Your system will draw whatever it needs from the batteries; they simply have more capacity (Ah).

There *will* be more power drawn for longer periods when you go up hills or slopes, and also when you startup from a stop or otherwise accelerate, because of the huge amount of extra weight of the SLA, but this power should not be a higher level than what it is all limited to anyway internal to the controller. It will probably take longer to get to speed than before, because of the extra weight.

On hills or slopes it may not go as fast as it did before, and that might cause the motor itself to get hotter.


b) How will charging be affected? I have the stock GIO charger, the one that is well vented and has a built in cooling fan. Does this stock charger have the ability to charge the extra battery if hooked in parallel?

It will probably take twice as long to charge. If the charger is programmed with a shut-off timer (not likely) then it may not complete a charge until you unplug it and plug it in again.

If for any reason it will not charge them while paralleled, you can always charge first one bank and then the other.

EDIT: looks like while I was typing up my reply, others already stepped in and answered most everything. :( Guess i need to type faster. :lol:
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby mistercrash » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:48 am

Please don't put more SLAs in your scooter. I know Lithium batteries are expensive but take it from a scooter owner here who recently got rid of 95 pounds of SLAs to replace them with 24 pounds of lithium, it is worth it! So sell stuff around the house you don't need, borrow money from the bank or family members if you have to and get some lithium, get rid of those SLAs. Ping is probably your best ''Plug and Play'' option. Good products and very good customer service from what I've read. Batteries from Cell-man are a bit more expensive but apparently you get what you pay for.
Last edited by mistercrash on Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby wesnewell » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:55 pm

Cheapest route; Add one 20ah 6v battery in series to what you have now. Your current charger will likely still charge your pack to ~60v. This will give you about a 10% range increase. LVC will not kick in as fast so it will let you drain all the batteries deeper thus killing them quicker if you don't watch the voltage drop. IMO, the faster you kill them the better so you can change to lithium.
Best route; Change to lithium. A 15ah 44.4v lipo pack that cost about $200 will get you close to double the range you get now and only weigh about 10 pounds. A 15ah 48v lifepo4 is also an option, but it will cost you at least twice as much. You can use your current SLA charger with lipo, BUT if you over charge them you will be in big trouble. Best bet is to get a lipo charger or something to keep the cells balanced. There are many options for this.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby dogman » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:47 pm

If you really like the scoot, invest in some lifepo4. A ping 48v 20 ah would be great, but look at sizes. If you can possibly fit 48v 30 ah into the box go for it. Well worth the money. It will come with a new charger btw, but your old one can still be used for top ups when out on the road.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby Victorious1 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:22 pm

[quote="wesnewell"]Cheapest route; Add one 20ah 6v battery in series to what you have now. Your current charger will likely still charge your pack to ~60v. This will give you about a 10% range increase. LVC will not kick in as fast so it will let you drain all the batteries deeper thus killing them quicker if you don't watch the voltage drop. [quote]

I think that considering my current budget, after just purchasing 2 e-bikes, that I will try the route of adding one 20ah 12volt battery in series to what I have now. You said 6 volt, but, I think you meant 12v, is that an error? What will happen to all my electrics on the bike? Can the motor, controller and wiring take it? Will the stock 48 volt to 12 volt converter handle the extra 12 volts or is it going to pop everything?

Thank you to everyone that replied. It's awesome that everyone is so willing to share such great information with a newbie like me.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby Kin » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:08 pm

I think he means 6v.

12v would put up your system to above 63v fresh off the charger. Common capacitor values in the controller are "54v,63v" and others. But my guess is he wants you to avoid hitting above 63v. Maybe i'm reading too much into it.

I know on boats in fact the entire system is usually done using 6v SLAs (4 of them in series for 24v). They're available in insane capacities (you can buy 6v 200ah deep discharge SLAs).


I know people have said your charger will still charge you up when you add the new battery in series. I'm kind of confused why they say that. Is the charger using some sort of feedback cycle to understand when the battery is full? I thought that was only for NiMh. I also want to make sure you understand what was said about LVC not cutting in. Basically, he is saying that you *will* have to stop the bike yourself before it just shuts off, as it did 2 blocks from your home. Otherwise, you're going to be running the batteries too low because the controller things you have 4 batteries and runs the 4.5 batteries (.5 from the 6v) all the way down to the limits of 4 batteries.

I know 7ah is a very common 12v SLA size, and smaller than 12ah. Would you consider adding 4 of those in parralel? You actually still will see a performance increase, because all your batteries will sag less.

Even if you sneak by with just enough to get home, you are discharging the lead really low. Enough people here have mentioned how that will lead to a short lead life .

Honestly, your best solution by far is charging at your destination (i assume, work?).
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby 999zip999 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:42 pm

First lead is best keep fully charged and not taken down to low for long life. So if you ride them dead you lose life. You charger can be turned up but could also have 63v caps ? So 6v more might not work ? You have to have a look inside.
Just use your lead till dead. Save money starting today put in a 20. Them read up and get a good battery 750usd or so.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby Victorious1 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:25 pm

Thanks for the info. I fully understand the benefits of lithium and will go that way when these batteries die, which may be very soon as I understand here, but, the issue remains about what can I do with the existing batteries that are only a few weeks old and have only been recharged 3 times, plus, I have access to some new 12 volt 20 ampere hour batteries if I need them at no cost to me ( a friend went lithium on his bike.) I'd be crazy to throw all the SLA batteries I have in the garbage, just to go lithium at this time, which will cost me almost double what I paid for both of my bikes. I often hear about guys adding an extra 12 volt 20 ampere hour battery to their 48 volt bike, but, I haven't seen any detail on the outcome of those experiments. Can anyone fill me in on exactly what happened with their 48 volt bike when they added an extra 12 volt battery in series? Is it a no can do situation or is it possible to do with a few mods to accomodate the extra 12 volt battery.

Also, if I go the extra 6 volt battery in series route how will the charging work out when mixing 6 volts and 12 volts?

Finally, if I did decide to load my bike with another 4 SLA 12 volt 20 ampere hour batteries how would I handle charging? Would the stock charger take care of the 8 batteries or would I have to use 2 chargers for each set of 4 batteries?

Anyone know where I can read up on this battery stuff so I don't have to keep straining your brains with my constant newbie questions?
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby wesnewell » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:33 pm

Victorious1 wrote:
wesnewell wrote:Cheapest route; Add one 20ah 6v battery in series to what you have now. Your current charger will likely still charge your pack to ~60v. This will give you about a 10% range increase. LVC will not kick in as fast so it will let you drain all the batteries deeper thus killing them quicker if you don't watch the voltage drop.

I think that considering my current budget, after just purchasing 2 e-bikes, that I will try the route of adding one 20ah 12volt battery in series to what I have now. You said 6 volt, but, I think you meant 12v, is that an error? What will happen to all my electrics on the bike? Can the motor, controller and wiring take it? Will the stock 48 volt to 12 volt converter handle the extra 12 volts or is it going to pop everything?

Thank you to everyone that replied. It's awesome that everyone is so willing to share such great information with a newbie like me.

No. I meant 6V. The reasoning behind that is this. You will still be able to use your charger to charge them. An sla cell charges to 2.14-2.25V depending on temps and other factors. Using 2.2V per cell, 27 cells (4 12v and 1 6v in series)will charge to about 59V. That should be well within the limits of both your controller and charger. 30 cells (5 12v bats in series) will charge to 66V. Well over the capacity of both your charger output and capabilities of most 48V controllers.
Mongoose 26" FS MTB bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $276, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $275=40+mph, range=45 miles @20mph
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby wesnewell » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:49 pm

Victorious1 wrote:Also, if I go the extra 6 volt battery in series route how will the charging work out when mixing 6 volts and 12 volts?

You put it in series with your other 4 batteries and charge the pack the same way you do now. Your smart charger will keep charging till it is full or it reaches its max output voltage, which is usually 59-61V.

Victorious1 wrote:Finally, if I did decide to load my bike with another 4 SLA 12 volt 20 ampere hour batteries how would I handle charging? Would the stock charger take care of the 8 batteries or would I have to use 2 chargers for each set of 4 batteries?

If you put 4 more batteries in parallel, you charge the same way. It will just take twice as long if they are empty.

Victorious1 wrote:Anyone know where I can read up on this battery stuff so I don't have to keep straining your brains with my constant newbie questions?

Quick google found this.
http://batteryuniversity.com/
Mongoose 26" FS MTB bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $276, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $275=40+mph, range=45 miles @20mph
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby Victorious1 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:58 pm

Absolutely fantastic reply wesnewell. I'm not exactly dumb when it comes to machines, but, I am very new to this electric stuff and th learning curve is very steep, but, your replies are so clear that I'm learning quickly. I'll start looking for a deal on a 6 volt battery of the type you mentioned earlier.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby dogman » Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:52 am

Well, trying that won't cost much, but it cannont increase range any more than the avaliable watthours in that battery. That will be what? 100 more wh at best? So 3 more miles if you ride at 35 wh/mi. And the additional 6v may trick you into discharging your existing batteries even deeper than you do now. You know what that gets you? Dead ducks in 50 cycles baby.

I call it a waste of time compared to just getting a real lithium battery. A 48v 20 ah pingbattery will almost triple your range for about $750. I know this sounds like a lot of money, but believe us when we say with all our heart that lead is dead.

Sure, go ahead and try the 6v in series trick, or even add your friends batteries in paralell. Cheap or free is fine. One thing to note, you may see a slight increase in capacity soon. Lead takes a few cycles to fully break in. On the other hand the best way to get the full capacity is light discharges for the first few cycles. Oh well, too late now. Do some short rides, and keep recharging all day today. You may see another mile of range.

Whatever that ride was you took that you ran out, you better shorten it somehow. If you want lead to last, you are looking at half that distance. Seriously, for lead its half. That's why lithium will be so much better. You get half the wh out of lead, and then you better not use all of that. So 3 or even 4 times the range is possible from lithium of the same size, and less than half the weight.

Adding your friends batts will work, I don't know how you will manage carrying it, but all you need to do is connect the whole pack to the other one. Make sure both are charged to the same voltage when you connect them. It's just the main 48v positive wire to the same wire on the other pack, and then the same thing with the main negative wire. Your charger will just "see" a 48v battery, and charge it like normal. The downside is your bike will be a heavy pig, handle like a heavy pig, and weigh a lot more climbing any hills.

If you do that, you'll have some more range, but the extra weight can actually end up subtracting some too. At some point, depending on the hills you need to climb, the equation can actually start going to less range. It did for me, since I had a very big steep hill to climb to get home.

If you start overdischarging those lead bricks, you better have that lifepo4 coming in the mail soon.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby Victorious1 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:27 am

Here's my greatest concern about springing the big bucks for lithium batteries for me bikes. Let's say, for example, after I make the transition to lithium I'll post here about the swap with some problem or another with the new lithium packs then I'll end up with a couple of pages of negative posts about oh, you should not have bought that brand, or, you bought the wrong type of lithium battery pack or I used the wrong type of charger and I killed them and on and on. I think that what I am trying to say here is, (and I mean this very respectfully,) don't tell me what I am doing wrong, but, instead please tell me about what you have done right with your batteries and explain it all in accurate, vivid detail so it can be shared and absorbed by others to learn from. I'm really a high tech person, but, I'm like an infant in this field of battery/electric power and it feels like I'm drowning in new knowledge (good and bad) regarding these neat little bikes so it would be awesome to see a consistent stream of posts that all unanimously say do it this way or that way with this specific battery pack and it will work out great for you (or not, because...)
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby mistercrash » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:59 am

This is not the battery I bought, I actually made my own. But if I didn't have the means or the time I would have bought this one from Ping. Get this one from Ping, 48V 20Ah. Upgrade to the 5 amp charger and upgrade to the high rate BMS. Boom! You're done! Take the measurements of the battery compartment on your Gio, if you have the room to put the Ping 48V 30Ah battery then buy that one, again with upgraded charger and BMS, the more amps will help with the shunt mod you did.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby TylerDurden » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:07 am

I suggest you add a CycleAnalyst to the shopping list for each scooter. Your factory installed instruments probably don't give you nearly the amount of info you want for keeping your systems happy and long-lived.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby Lock » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:15 am

So Victorious1... Knowing what you know now about the practical range per charge for your stock Gio 500+ bike, curious what you think about the "specs" listed for the bike by the importer:
http://www.giobikes.com/Electric-Scooters-in-Canada/500w-PLUS-E-Scooter/
The 48 Volt lead-acid battery system features dual 20AH batteries and will provide 60 kilometers of range on a single charge!


Any chance you questioned the retailer about this before buying?

Would you say this statement might fall under the Canadian Consumer Protection Act?
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_02c30_e.htm#BK17
14. (1) It is an unfair practice for a person to make a false, misleading or deceptive representation. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 14 (1).

Examples of false, misleading or deceptive representations
(2) Without limiting the generality of what constitutes a false, misleading or deceptive representation, the following are included as false, misleading or deceptive representations:

1. A representation that the goods or services have sponsorship, approval, performance characteristics, accessories, uses, ingredients, benefits or qualities they do not have.


The internet is riddled with ebike seller sites promoting extravagant claims about range per charge, but most of these sellers are smart enough to add a disclaimer in the fine print something like "* this is only true if you are a slim Chinese lady, circling `round and `round a smooth indoor track at slow speeds with no stopping on a brand new bike well oiled with a new battery pack gently broken in and tire pressures at max..."

...and I don't see any disclaimer on the Gio site...

Can you imagine buying any other sort of vehicle and finding out right away that you have to spend a bunch more money just to get it into useful condition?

Lock
Last edited by Lock on Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby John in CR » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:03 am

If you're not going to forget the lead batts for now, then forget about the dog and whatever other unnecessary weight you're carrying, and carry a charger with you. Those lead batteries will loose capacity quickly, so any solution involving more lead is very temporary.

Batteries are everything for an EV, and you'll be thanking us profusely if we talk you into biting the bullet and buying lithium. If adding a 6V in series will actually work with your current charger and controller, something I've got real reservations about, it's not going to give you more range (just a bit more speed) and you're going to kill your batteries much faster since you'll be fooling the LVC (Low Voltage Cutoff) of the controller into allowing your batteries to go to even deeper discharge. That's a real no-no, especially with lead batteries.

Your scooter will ride and handle much better with lighter batteries. You're really overloading that scooter, and lighter batteries will make it safer and better all around. I understand your hesitancy, and if budgetary concerns are holding you back then I'd recommend the following:
1. Drastically reduce your maximum trip distances. You'll all but kill those lead batteries in just a month or 2 with 100% DOD's (Depth Of Discharge).
2. Carry your charger with you and get opportunity charges while you're out.
3. Conserve- I have little doubt that you could increase your range by 10-20% with some small changes in how you ride. eg Push off strongly with your legs on every takeoff. Our motors start at 0% efficiency at 0 rpm, so each start uses a lot of energy compared to just cruising along, because the early stage of taking off is horribly inefficient. This is even more important for us big guys, especially on one of those scooter ebikes. Another technique is to slowly roll on the throttle during acceleration. Your vehicle is nowhere close to zippy with your load, so sacrificing a bit of acceleration is no real sacrifice. Also, try riding in a manner that uses your brakes as little as possible.

Welcome to the electric revolution,

John
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby John in CR » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:07 am

Lock wrote:So Victorious1... Knowing what you know know about the practical range per charge for your stock Gio 500+ bike, curious what you think about the "specs" listed for the bike by the importer:
http://www.giobikes.com/Electric-Scooters-in-Canada/500w-PLUS-E-Scooter/
The 48 Volt lead-acid battery system features dual 20AH batteries and will provide 60 kilometers of range on a single charge!


Any chance you questioned the retailer about this before buying?

Would you say this statement might fall under the Canadian Consumer Protection Act?
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_02c30_e.htm#BK17
14. (1) It is an unfair practice for a person to make a false, misleading or deceptive representation. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 14 (1).

Examples of false, misleading or deceptive representations
(2) Without limiting the generality of what constitutes a false, misleading or deceptive representation, the following are included as false, misleading or deceptive representations:

1. A representation that the goods or services have sponsorship, approval, performance characteristics, accessories, uses, ingredients, benefits or qualities they do not have.


The internet is riddled with ebike seller sites promoting extravagant claims about range per charge, but most of these sellers are smart enough to add a disclaimer in the fine print something like "* this is only true if you are a slim Chinese lady, circling `round and `round a smooth indoor track at slow speeds with no stopping on a brand new bike well oiled with a new battery pack gently broken in and tire pressures at max..."

...and I don't see any disclaimer on the Gio site...

Can you imagine buying any other sort of vehicle and finding out right away that you have to spend a bunch more money just to get it into useful condition?

Lock


I'm actually impressed with the range it got. 20 miles with a lead pig scooter-ebike hauling a 280lb guy and his dog is pretty darn good.
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Re: I WANT TO INCREASE MY BIKE'S RANGE WITH EXTRA BATTERIES

Postby 999zip999 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:25 am

My 48v sla charger had 63v caps and when turning it up I smoke it. Tiny turns on the screw with meter hooked. But I wouldn't add that 6v. Plus the charger was set for 58.6v for my 48v20ah sla's. What is your charger set to ? Did you put that 20usd in the jar yet. Then put all your lose change in the jar each night. when those sla's kit it you could have 300usd. At lease nobody told you to go lipo yet. i didn't bring it up.

Pirus just got sued for false advertising on the mileage and lost. The way you ride for the first month or so will change. I little off the top of the throttle works wonders. For mileage.
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