Converting a mountain bike

[mineralvann]

Hello

I have a mountainbike that i would like to convert to electric. Ive been looking on the kits on ebay but after reading the faq i see that it is a gamble.
I live in norway where im restricted to a 250w motor as i understand.
ive looked at the faq and figured a befang at 36v is what i need as i would like to be able to use it as a ordinary bike and from the faq i found out i need freewheel for that and i primarily want it to help me with hills.


So far these are the components i found
Motor http://www.bmsbattery.com/hub-motor/42- ... ebike.html
Controller http://www.ebay.com/itm/Standard-Contro ... 803wt_1139
Throttle\brakes http://www.ebay.com/itm/Throttle-Grips- ... 256e1ab7c8
Pedelec sensor http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pedelec-Sensor- ... 35b67e9e26
battery 3s 11.1v 5000mah 25c battery from ebay(x3 or x6 not sure yet)

I want it stealth so im probably gonna put the controller and battery in the same bag\box on a frame connected to the seatbar.
The thing i hoped you could help me with is
1. Motor, where can i buy it with 201 rpm, 26" rim and as many gears as possible?
2. My bike has hydralic disc braked but all the brake handles ive found so far looks to be mechanical, but then i read that these handles are used for regenerativ braking and not for cutting power to the motor as i thought. Is this true? If so i can just use the ones already on my bike yes?
3. Should i look for a diffent controller? It doesnt look like the one ive linked to supports lipo so if you know a cheap a good one that does please tell
4. Anything i missed? Should/need to know?

I weigh about 85kg or 190 pounds, and my bike is 12kg or 26 punds.

[Jason27]

What is your budget?

[motomech]

Hello

I have a mountainbike that i would like to convert to electric. Ive been looking on the kits on ebay but after reading the faq i see that it is a gamble.
I live in norway where im restricted to a 250w motor as i understand.
ive looked at the faq and figured a befang at 36v is what i need as i would like to be able to use it as a ordinary bike and from the faq i found out i need freewheel for that and i primarily want it to help me with hills.


So far these are the components i found
Motor http://www.bmsbattery.com/hub-motor/42- ... ebike.html
Controller http://www.ebay.com/itm/Standard-Contro ... 803wt_1139
Throttle\brakes http://www.ebay.com/itm/Throttle-Grips- ... 256e1ab7c8
Pedelec sensor http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pedelec-Sensor- ... 35b67e9e26
battery 3s 11.1v 5000mah 25c battery from ebay(x3 or x6 not sure yet)

I want it stealth so im probably gonna put the controller and battery in the same bag\box on a frame connected to the seatbar.
The thing i hoped you could help me with is
1. Motor, where can i buy it with 201 rpm, 26" rim and as many gears as possible?
2. My bike has hydralic disc braked but all the brake handles ive found so far looks to be mechanical, but then i read that these handles are used for regenerativ braking and not for cutting power to the motor as i thought. Is this true? If so i can just use the ones already on my bike yes?
3. Should i look for a diffent controller? It doesnt look like the one ive linked to supports lipo so if you know a cheap a good one that does please tell
4. Anything i missed? Should/need to know?

I weigh about 85kg or 190 pounds, and my bike is 12kg or 26 punds.

There is no good reason to mix and match parts, especially off Ebay.
Just buy the conversion kit from BMS Battery. Since you are in Europe, your shipping costs will be less than we pay here in the States. And if you get everything from them, the shipping costs will be consolidated, resulting in more savings.
I would recommend the Cute Q100 36V/350watt "201" wind kit. It has a no-load rpm @ 36V of 230 or about 18 or 19 mph @36V. 48V would result in 21 or 22 mph.

You could use either a frt. or rear mount. The Q100 will accept a 8 or 9-speed freewheel or go with a frt. and keep your drive-line intact.
You should get one of their Li-on batteries as well. Many are on sale and, frankly this,...

QUOTE- "battery 3s 11.1v 5000mah 25c battery from ebay(x3 or x6 not sure yet)" -END OF QUOTE

...tells me you need to do a lot more studying before you are ready for Lipo. Nobody would series three sticks of 11.1V to get 33.3V. It creates charging hassles that the power would not justify[2X 5S for 37V would be a much more elegent approach].

Aside from here, the Pedelecs UK forum would be a good source of info. search the posts of D8veh there and see how he adds a simple reed switch to Hyd. brake levers to facilitate Ebrakes.

Controllers are not battery chemistry specific.

This is my mountain bike with a mini-motor on the front and a Li-on rack battery on the back

[d8veh]

It doesn't make sense to buy all the stuff from different suppliers. Get a complete kit from one supplier - itll be a lot cheaper, and you can be sure the stuff works together. Some pedal sensors don't work with some controllers. Some kits like the 8Fun kit include the battery as well. 8Fun offer good support
http://www.8funbike.com/detail.asp/sku=EK26F3t if something goes wrong.
I used to use and recommend BMSBattery a lot, but if they make a mistake on your order, you won't get any help from them at all. You might want to see what Cell-man has to offer because at least he has a conscience.
All the rear motors require a free-wheel gear set rather than a cassette. You might want to think about an 11T top gear set which are not so common, otherwise you'll need to go up to a 52T chainwheel. However, you can get 11T free-wheels from Ebikes.ca or Cyclezee in the UK.
For hydraulic disk brakes you can get in-line hydraulic brake switches. Do a search in this forum to find the detaild. They're relatively expensive. Or you can get a whole hydraulic brake set with switch like this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150740784320? ... 1439.l2649

[mat h physics]

Keep in mind MTB are geared low for climbing. Once I went to a hybrid, the taller gearing was much faster. This may not be of much concern, as you only expect to use 250w. E-S was the right place to ask, these guys are great.
PS ring gear clearance became an issue when trying a street crank set on the Splz Hardrock.

[izeman]

I would recommend the Cute Q100 36V/350watt "201" wind kit. It has a no-load rpm @ 36V of 230 or about 18 or 19 mph @36V. 48V would result in 21 or 22 mph.

i was looking to get one of those as well. do you know if those controllers are infineon eb206 compatible and programmable? at least they look like those.
thanks

[motomech]

Not sure who makes the basic 350 watt kit controller[perhaps Shenzen], but it maxes out around 17A, has 63V caps and is non-programmable.
They are very tiny, around 100 m/m in length.

[izeman]

Not sure who makes the basic 350 watt kit controller[perhaps Shenzen], but it maxes out around 17A, has 63V caps and is non-programmable.
They are very tiny, around 100 m/m in length.

you know where i can get them? i prefer the chinese manufaturer direct, as ordering from US would be more expensive.

[motomech]

I believe the Ebay vendor, very famililar here, Ecrazyman sells that controller.
As does BMS Battery, it's the controller included in the BMS Battery Cute wheel kits. But the shipping to the States would be cost prohibitive for just a controller.
Mine works well, very smooth with the sensored MXUS mini geared motor.

[mineralvann]

Im looking for the most bang for my bucks. Dont really have budget, but the cheaper the better thats why im looking at ebay lipos as I image even the chinese c-rating would be more then sufficiant, but the waterbottle battery looks very nice. Also i know the controllers is not chemistry specific but i also know that lipos dont like to go below 3.2v per cell so it would be nice to have a controller with lvc.
So the stuff i read about the front fork not beeing able to handle the forces of beeing the drive wheel is not true? Thats why i havent even thought about frownt wheel drive.
And thanks for the link to the other forum, will try to read up more, this isent looking like its going to be as easy as i had hoped.
And if 42v dont kill the motor/controller i will go for 2x 5s battery as it would simplify the charging as you say.

I plan to use the motor just for assistance up hills i would like it too be as lightweight as possible and from what i read the befang motor i linked to earlier is lighter then the q100, and more stealth in my opionion. But i cant seem to find any kits that use it.
About the brakes, this thread http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electri ... tions.html seems to suggest i dont need to do anything to the brakes as long as i have a pedelec sensor. Anyone want to chime in?

If i understand you guys right i will need to change the gears where the pedals are too? I just assumet i would loose a gear or two on the back because the motor needed the space but that i would get away without haveing to change the front ones. I already have 9 speeds on my rear wheel, if i go for the 9 speed freewheel and the q100 it still wont be plug and play?

Finally if i cant find a kit with the befang motor and and i decide the q100 is not for me, can i get the controller,throttle and pedec sensor at the same place\manufactorer and still use any brushless motor i want? Only experience i have with brushless comes from rc and there you can do that as long as you watch the amps but they have not been sensored.

Thanks for all the answers so far they have been very useful.
And motomech very nice bike, that looks exactly like what i would like to achieve but i really want the motor in the back as i fear my front fork\suspension will break and i will faceplant like a hero.

[dkw12002]

Why not abide by the law and get the 250 watt? The Clean Republic Hill Topper is a very simple conversion...so simple, even I did it. It comes with everything you need and is extremely simplistic with just and on/off button you velcro onto the handlebars, the DD motor mounted onto the front wheel already with a tire and the battery and controller inside a bag you can attach where you like. I don't think there is a more simple system out there to install. Mine works very well except for climbing steep hills.

[dogman]

If you have a 9 speed bike, you may have to change some stuff. Your 9 speed shifter will not index right on a 7 speed cluster, which has the gears spaced wider, and uses wider chain.

You may have to change your chain, your shifter, and if the chain is too wide for it, maybe even your cranks.

In the end, a cheap used 21 speed bike might be easier on the budget. I recomend it also, because you have a nice pedaler, and perhaps it should be left alone. The ebike can be a steel frame pig, and once motorized it will still ride like a feather.

If you haven't seen this site, you need to. Very reputable vendor with very good prices. Look at his muxus gearmotor kit. http://www.emissions-free.com/

[jateureka]

I used to use and recommend BMSBattery a lot, but if they make a mistake on your order, you won't get any help from them at all.

+1 on that - BMSBattery quality control and customer after sales service sucks!

I ordered the iron carrier with built in battery slot from BMSBattery. It arrived with rust bubbles in the paint and paint flacking off. Their response was it's not alloy or stainless so rust can be expected...
I ordered 180mm and 168mm 13g stainless spokes. I got 180mm steel spokes and 168mm 12g spokes and 13g nipples. Their response was they are 13G...

[motomech]

double post

[motomech]

Im looking for the most bang for my bucks. Dont really have budget, but the cheaper the better thats why im looking at ebay lipos as I image even the chinese c-rating would be more then sufficiant, but the waterbottle battery looks very nice. Also i know the controllers is not chemistry specific but i also know that lipos dont like to go below 3.2v per cell so it would be nice to have a controller with lvc.
So the stuff i read about the front fork not beeing able to handle the forces of beeing the drive wheel is not true? Thats why i havent even thought about frownt wheel drive.
And thanks for the link to the other forum, will try to read up more, this isent looking like its going to be as easy as i had hoped.
And if 42v dont kill the motor/controller i will go for 2x 5s battery as it would simplify the charging as you say.

I plan to use the motor just for assistance up hillsi would like it too be as lightweight as possible and from what i read the befang motor i linked to earlier is lighter then the q100, and more stealth in my opionion. But i cant seem to find any kits that use it.
About the brakes, this thread http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electri ... tions.html seems to suggest i dont need to do anything to the brakes as long as i have a pedelec sensor. Anyone want to chime in?

If i understand you guys right i will need to change the gears where the pedals are too? I just assumet i would loose a gear or two on the back because the motor needed the space but that i would get away without haveing to change the front ones. I already have 9 speeds on my rear wheel, if i go for the 9 speed freewheel and the q100 it still wont be plug and play?

Finally if i cant find a kit with the befang motor and and i decide the q100 is not for me, can i get the controller,throttle and pedec sensor at the same place\manufactorer and still use any brushless motor i want? Only experience i have with brushless comes from rc and there you can do that as long as you watch the amps but they have not been sensored.

Thanks for all the answers so far they have been very useful.
And motomech very nice bike, that looks exactly like what i would like to achieve but i really want the motor in the back as i fear my front fork\suspension will break and i will faceplant like a hero.

.... but the cheaper the better thats why im looking at ebay lipos as I image even the chinese c-rating would be more then sufficiant...

I think most here would suggest staying away from Ebay Lipo. For better or worse, Hobbyking is the place for Lipo. I think all the Lipo ebiker's use is Chinese in origin and you won't find decent Lipo for less money anywhere else.

...the waterbottle battery looks very nice.

"Water Bottle" batteries seem like a good idea, but their capacity is limited, and a mini-motor on 36V is kinda slow.

....but i also know that lipos dont like to go below 3.2v per cell so it would be nice to have a controller with lvc.

The controller just needs to match the desired LVC of the Lipo pack that one is using. A programmable unit is best and the 9-FET available as an upgrade from BMS Battery has an adjustable LVC, or something like a Lynn. The LVC value is not critical, whole numbers will do. You probably would want an additional alarm anyhow.

I plan to use the motor just for assistance up hills...

Trust me, unless you are a hard core Hyper-miler, that will quickly change. You will use the motor in conjuction with pedaling most of the time. You will still be adding with your effort, you will just be going faster while doing it. This is why you want a battery with some decent capacity.

....i would like it too be as lightweight as possible and from what i read the befang motor i linked to earlier is lighter then the q100...

Bafang offers more than one model, so ID'ing a motor as a Bafang is not useful.
The MXUS, Q100 and most of the Bafangs are the same, around 3.0 Kg., besides an once or two is not going to make an much difference.

...and more stealth in my opionion.

They all look pretty much the same.
Stealth-wise, a mini-motor is not going to give you away, even on the front. It's the other items, battery and especially the wiring, that 1 in 100 people might notice.

...But i cant seem to find any kits that use it[Bafang].

The 8 For Fun kits that D8veh linked are Bafang kits. They are very low-power front mount kits that are "plug and play". For someone who desires to meet the letter of the law for the Euro-spec., not a bad way to go. One would think the wheels would be laced so that the motor/spokes would clear a standard 160 m/m disc caliper. My MXUS did, the Q100 and Bafang wheel builds...I'm not sure.
Personally, I think the Euro-spec is silly, and I would go ahead and build in more speed, ride responsibly and take my chances. A 36V battery won't do that except with a "fast wind" and "fast wind" mini-motors are not very good climbers.

About the brakes, this thread http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electri ... tions.html seems to suggest i dont need to do anything to the brakes as long as i have a pedelec sensor.

From what I have read, the pedelec sensors are dumb and un-responsive devices that nobody would use if they didn't feel required to. I don't use an Ebrake on my Edge, but will install one eventually. Certainly if I up the power. I haven't tried, but I think a strong squeeze of the hyd. disc. brake would stop the motor.

... i understand you guys right i will need to change the gears where the pedals are too?

Those are called chain rings and how much of the system you need to change out depends on what freewheel you use.

I just assumet i would loose a gear or two on the back because the motor needed the space but that i would get away without haveing to change the front ones. I already have 9 speeds on my rear wheel, if i go for the 9 speed freewheel and the q100 it still wont be plug and play?

No, it's not "plug and play", you have to install a 9-speed free wheel, replacing your 9-speed cassette. But if you install an 8 or smaller-speed freewheel and still want it to index well, you will be swapping out at least the rear deraileur, chain and shifter. The front should be ok, but very few with much of a motor shift the frt. anyhow. I believe the MXUS rear would allow a 9-speed to be fitted in a 135 m/m drop-out, but nobody has tried. Care to find out?

...but i really want the motor in the back as i fear my front fork\suspension will break and i will faceplant like a hero.

I.M.O., You want to run 12S[44.4V nom.]with the controller in the 15 to 20A range. This will give a top speed in the low 20's mph and allow good assist above with your 44/11 gearing. This is key to a fun mini-motor build. Headwinds and even slight hills slow mini-motors down, so even using the motor most of time, there is plenty of opportunity for pedaling. If carefully installed, these sub 700 watt systems can be mounted in most any fork. I use one torque arm

To me, it boils down to this,

The only time that my frt. mount is even a little tricky is when I start up a hill when the pavement is wet, it will spin. Not a situation I encounter often. If you think you might be faced with this, go with the rear-mount Q100[36V "201" slow wind], otherwise, get the frt.-mount MXUS from Cell_man.

Pro and con.s of these two set-ups.

Front-MXUS-
PRO-Cell_man's service and correct wheel build. His wheel on the front should be bullet-proof.
.....-ease of install, no additional parts required.
.....-reports of those who have tried two or more M.M. models, prefer the MXUS, commenting on it's quietness and responsiveness.
......Good balance with rear battery[really, only important when carrying the bike unless the battery is large].
......-Chain-drive system left intact[mostly matters for those with a decent 8 or 9-speed].
CON-slippery when wet.

Rear-Q100
PRO-Less slippery when wet.
......perhaps a bit more stealthy, but no one hardly notices a frt. mini.
CON-Additional freewheel needed.
BMS Battery wheel build questionable.

Link to two builds using Q100 and 9-speed free wheel.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32364&start=15

[mineralvann]

It would be preferable to have it legal thats why im looking for rear wheel kits with the befang motor but they dont seem to exist. (Norway legal is 250w ,25km/h and pedelec sensor)
I see alot of people are using front wheel motor and i would like to know there if they have experinced any metal fatique or breaking at the front forks? or this just some urban myth i read? Or are they just using steel bikes?
Right now its starting to look like its not worth the hastle. As dogman said i do have a nice pedaler and it is lightweight, but the reason im looking into electric is that on the way to work i have to up a hill that is about 1km long and the elevation difference is maybe around 300 meters(kinda hard to judge), and event though it easily doable just by human power it is very slow 4-5km\h and tedius. And that hill is just the worst one there are a couple more of them.

I think i will go for an ordinary scooter before i go down the second pure electric bike route, since i suspect i wont be happy with a heavy bike and small motor. And a college of mine has been stopped several times by the police on his off the shelf electric(more stealt then what i can hope to build) so im not sure i dare to go for a bigger motor.

Edit.

Got another answer while writing this.

The befang motor i was looking for is this one 36V QSWXH REAR DRIVE BRUSHLESS HUB MOTOR
And i agree the euro specs are silly but im kinda used to it as norway like to have laws that limit everything we do.
I suspect your right about wanting to use the motor all the time so i will do some more research on batteries.
Will look into the mxus + 9 speed freewheel and see what i can figure out, it does sound exacly like what i was looking for even though i would be bending the law a little.
And yeah it does rain alot here so im thinking rear wheel drive is the way for me.
But if i skip the pedelec sensor and just use my brakes as they are wont it burn out the motor if its powered on when i lock the rear wheel?
And finally why is the lvc numbers not so important or you just set it well above the 3.0v per cell? My experince with lipos come from rc and there they stress very much that you should not go below 3.0v per cell and absolute max is 4.2v, but i see one guy has in his signature that 4.3 is absolute max. On my rc heli two of my cells puffed when they were charged to 4.21-4.22v, but they were just 240mah. From what i understand lipo cells works the same no matter the capacity or do they take more abuse as they get bigger?

Thanks for all the answers and links and i hope you have patiance with me as i understand i didnt know nearly as much as i thought i did about a pedelec after reading your answers.

Edit 2

Thanks again for the links motomech it got my hopes up again.
Right now im looking at getting these parts but it looks too easy so i probably missed something.
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/42 ... e-kit.html 201rpm 26" 100w over the limit but what the hell, if its printed on the motor i will change it to 250w and if the police have measuring equipment(which i cant understand they will have) i will try to blaim the chinese for giving me a too powerful motor without me knowing.
And the 9 speed freewheel FW9Spd1132 from this site http://ebike.ca/store/store_motors.php
As i understand this was pretty much a drop in for grindz145. (i know this isent a guarantee it will work for me to but a man can hope)
And 12s battery's as recommended by motomech (i know i would hate myself for going with 10s if 12s batteries works fine), not sure on capacity yet.
And hooking up two 6s in series is the way to go right? 10s was the most could find on hobbyking

Anything else i should order\need?
I was thinking i should order some spacers in case everything doest line up right but the only one i could find was a 2.5mm one from ebike for disc brakes. And do i need any nuts\bolts?
Is the motor white or chrome? On bmsbatteries site it looks like its white but in grindz pictures its chrome. Chrome would be sweet as that what my current wheels has
The q100 is sensored right?
Do the led meter have to be wired in for the motor to start?
What battery connectors do you guys use?I know deans are rated to 80A so they should be good enough.
And i think i have room for the half twist throttle but if i haven't can someone please link to a on\off switch.

[motomech]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28355

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17276&p=252280&sid=67beba379d5efb946d73d92a31a08ab0#p252280

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32541

[mineralvann]

Thank you very much, appreciate it. Just so you know im not a lazy ass i have tried searching but i am having trouble finding relevant result. Also i feel i get information overload sometimes as my ebike knowlege is still very basic