geared kona dirt jump frame

[flyinmonkie]

All wired and everything seems to be fine with the electronics. The motor spins and it seems no louder than my brushed motors. I'm not sure what the complaint about the sound of the cyclones is.. yet. Of course I haven't run it under load.

I need to set up a chain tensioner and the chain line for the motor. Then I can go for a test hoon. I'll be working on that shortly and I get the promised pics. There really hasn't been much to show as of yet.

I will still have a lot of tidy up on the shaft lengths and finishing the top of the box. I also still need to set up my one plug charger. All those details take so much time when I would just rather ride. Oh well... off to the work shop.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

After a long day yesterday, I got the bike to a ridable state. The short test ride went well. I need to dimple the shafts to make it totally ridable, but it feels really solid. Even more so than the brushed motors did. It is also about the same volume as the brushed motors, just a little deeper. It isn't really that loud at all.

That leaves finishing the top of the box, the one plug charger setup, and painting the box.

I'll be riding to work again next week.

The gearing needs to be adjusted as I topped out at 37kph and I want 60 again. I thought that might happen from the gearing math I did. I just need to change the sprockets on the rear hub. I should be able to get what I want.

I promised pics, so here they are finally. They aren't the greatest as it was dark and the flash glared a bit.

[sn0wchyld]

looking great mate.

looks like you have heaps of space for batts too! Hows the noise of that cyclone now that its lost it's gearbox?

[TopCat]

Looking good Clay, looks like your back in business mate

Can I ask about your sprockets n' chain. What size are they and where did you get them?
Especially the on on the motor.

looking great mate.

looks like you have heaps of space for batts too! Hows the noise of that cyclone now that its lost it's gearbox?

Looks to me like the gearbox is still on the motor. The square box to the left of the white line on the motor is the gearbox?

Regards
Tom

[flyinmonkie]

@ sn0wychyld

Thanks, yup there is room for 4 more batteries. That would give me 23.2 amp hours at 50v off the charger. I only have 4 batteries at the moment for half the amp hours at the same voltage.

the gearbox is still on the motor and it is quieter than my old brushed motor. My wife could hear me in the house when I was coming up the road with my old motor. She can;t hear this one until I turn in the drive. It is a lower pitch as well.

@ topcat

I got them from surplus center in the US.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp? ... 0&PageNo=1

I had to have them bored out to fit the motor output shaft and my jackshaft. They and the chain are #25.

I went for a good test ride after topping off the bats and changing the gearing. It runs well. I now have a 28t, 21t, and 14t on the rear. I top out at about 45kph now. It is slower than I would like, but smooth and solid. It will climb most anything in the lowest gear. I may change the driven gear on the jackshaft to get a higher top end.

It has good acceleration off the line, but then tends to take a while to wind out to the end of the gear. My old motor just accelerated to the end of the gear. It is kind of like a diesel vs a petrol car. It just keeps going even when under load though and it is hard to bog down.

Stats
42 amps max
1999.9 watts max

That was from a dead stop on a hill and it started and accelerated up the hill.

I can't stress how solid it feels. I also don't get why people think they are loud. It might get louder as the grease wears out, but that will be a sign to re grease it.

After the ride, the motor was warm and the controller was air temp. I am pretty happy overall.

Clay

[bandaro]

Looks very nice, good to see it's back up and running.

I have a components question as well though, first is how long does the #25 chain last for you, and second is regarding the axle, how big is it and what steel? I shredded a 12mm mild steel one of mine within minutes, so was thinking of going a 15mm hardened shaft.

[flyinmonkie]

Looks very nice, good to see it's back up and running.

I have a components question as well though, first is how long does the #25 chain last for you, and second is regarding the axle, how big is it and what steel? I shredded a 12mm mild steel one of mine within minutes, so was thinking of going a 15mm hardened shaft.

Thanks, I haven't replaced the #25 chain yet and it has been on the bike from day one. It has over 1000kms on it.

The shaft is 13mm I think. I can't remember. It might be 15mm I had it specially made to fit a US Cycles freewheel adapter. It isn't hardened as I could easily drill dimples in it and cut it down. I haven't had a issue with it yet.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

I changed the programming on the 12 fet Lyen controller and it is much better. It pulls hard right to the end of the gears now. I also see 50kph on the flat as well. I am pretty happy with the set up now.

I need to put a proper plug in the hall wires. Then I need to finish the top and it will be done. (...for now)

When I get it sorted I'll work on some rid videos.

Clay

[AussieJester]

Great too see her up and running again AmericanKiwiDude im sure she will be
a hell lot more reliable than the brushed motor Dont get the whole noise thing
either mate, once your over 25km/hr you can't hear anything for wind noise anywayz so what the frock does it matter LoL

KiM

[flyinmonkie]

Great too see her up and running again AmericanKiwiDude im sure she will be
a hell lot more reliable than the brushed motor Dont get the whole noise thing
either mate, once your over 25km/hr you can't hear anything for wind noise anywayz so what the frock does it matter LoL

KiM

Hey, Kim has come up for air. Make sure you get some food to keep the energy up while you are taking out. he he

Thanks Kim, good to see you. Have you done anything on the HOBO lately, or too busy with the woman?

Clay

[AussieJester]

LoL@ Clay, naagh mate, i don't need to 'come up for air' i have perfected the art of "breathing through my ears" :: wink::

Look forward to some video and final shots when the bikes fully done...

KiM

[flyinmonkie]

I have put a proper plug on the halls and cleaned up the jackshaft and sprockets. Of course I had to go for a good ride.

With the new settings in the controller, the bike pulls really well. I can get the front wheel off the ground from a slow rolling start. It gets light when you give all while rolling or when you change gears. It pulls hard right to the gear limits and will climb most any hill in low gear.

I did a bit of trail and using speed 2 worked really well for that. When I hit the road I can switch it to speed 3 and cruise.

stats:
63 amps peak
just over 3300w peak (pulling a mono off the line) otherwise about 2800w
Just over 50kph on the flat maybe 55kph

The controller stays cool as a cucumber and motor only gets warm to the touch really. The cooling fins make a big difference. Before I added them the motor would get too hot to hold a hand on.

I'm really happy with it. I have some Maxxis Holy Rollers on order and should see them soon. There is now gravel bike path almost all the way to my work and the street tires get a bit exciting some times. The Holy Rollers will also allow me to hit some more trails. I am also fitting some fenders for commuting in the winter. I'll put up new pics after I get the new tires and fenders installed.

Clay

[Whiplash]

Sounds like a good setup! What is your total reduction therebefore the rear gears? That little motor handles that kind of power easily? Very cool!

[flyinmonkie]

Sounds like a good setup! What is your total reduction therebefore the rear gears? That little motor handles that kind of power easily? Very cool!

The gearbox on the cyclone is 9.3:1 from the info I can find. The sprocket on the output of the motor is a 25t. That drives a 45t. The output of the second stage is a 16t. I have a 14t, a 21t, and a 28t to select from on the rear hub for the final driven sprockets. I'm not so good at the math, but you can figure it out from that.

There are others on here that are putting a fair amount more power through the 1200w cyclones. I would say I am a mid power user. It is nice to use less power actually. I am getting the same performance with 2000w less than the brushed currie motor and everything is handling the power better.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

I have a small issue arising now. I am getting a skip in the drive train. I thought it might be the first stage chain skipping, or the sprocket slipping on the shaft. But I have eliminated the sprocket spinning, and I am pretty sure the chain the chain isn't skipping either. I have it tensioned well and I can't imagine it can skip.

That leads me to believe that the gear box might be slipping. It only happens under heavy load, or when I am in 3rd gear (which loads the motor pretty well). I'll have to pull the motor and remove the gearbox for a look. I haven't pushed it that hard, so I will be a little disappointed if it is slipping.

I also found the rear hub is a bit loose. I'll tighten that up first and see if it changes anything. The skip really seems to be coming from the motor though.

I'm away for the weekend, so I won't get a chance to check anything until next week.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

I finally got a chance to look at the bike. I pulled the rear wheel to tighten the hub and found the rear brake pads glazed and a chunk coming out of one. After tightening the hub and adjusting the brakes I pulled the motor to realign the motor bracket.

Got that all sorted and reinstalled the motor. I also put on some new tires I picked up.

new tires.jpg (114.93 KiB) Viewed 632 times

Went for a quick test ride. The new tires are great on the road and the trails. I still had the chain skip feel though. It wasn't as bad, but it was there.

I checked the rear wheel again and replaced the brake pads. While I had the bike apart I decided the check the no load amps to make sure I had the phase wires correct for reversing the motor. There were about 7amps, so I decided to try a couple of other combos. On one of the combos, I heard pop and smelled the magic smoke from the motor. Not very happy with myself. No response from the motor even on the combo that originally worked.

So out comes the motor again and this time it comes apart. Good news is that the gears in the motor all still look new. Bad news is that after opening the motor, it is obvious I blew a trace on the circuit board.

fried motor.jpg (166.43 KiB) Viewed 632 times

I figure I can solder in a bit of wire to repair the blown trace. Then I should be up and running again. I have narrowed down the chain skip feeling to the chain on the first stage skipping. I'm not sure how it is happening as there is a tensioner on it. I have to figure out how to keep that from skipping.

Clay

[kfong]

If it's a bike chain, check if it's worn. They streach over time and can skip due to this. I've replaced my chain twice already on my cyclone. There is a bike tool used to measure the streach.

Just realized you are running #25 on the first stage. They tend to streach even more.

The idler should be closer to the drive motor.

[TopCat]

I finally got a chance to look at the bike. I pulled the rear wheel to tighten the hub and found the rear brake pads glazed and a chunk coming out of one. After tightening the hub and adjusting the brakes I pulled the motor to realign the motor bracket.

Got that all sorted and reinstalled the motor. I also put on some new tires I picked up.

new tires.jpg

Went for a quick test ride. The new tires are great on the road and the trails. I still had the chain skip feel though. It wasn't as bad, but it was there.

I checked the rear wheel again and replaced the brake pads. While I had the bike apart I decided the check the no load amps to make sure I had the phase wires correct for reversing the motor. There were about 7amps, so I decided to try a couple of other combos. On one of the combos, I heard pop and smelled the magic smoke from the motor. Not very happy with myself. No response from the motor even on the combo that originally worked.

So out comes the motor again and this time it comes apart. Good news is that the gears in the motor all still look new. Bad news is that after opening the motor, it is obvious I blew a trace on the circuit board.

fried motor.jpg

I figure I can solder in a bit of wire to repair the blown trace. Then I should be up and running again. I have narrowed down the chain skip feeling to the chain on the first stage skipping. I'm not sure how it is happening as there is a tensioner on it. I have to figure out how to keep that from skipping.

Clay

Hi Clay,

You aint having any luck with your motors of late mate Hope you manage to repair the damaged wire. Fingers crossed thats all that wrong with it.

As to the PHASE wire combos. I had a hell of a time last night going through all the phase wire swapping combos. I finally got one that worked. I posted up my results on damcard's thread...

Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23203

Whoopeee I managed to get my motor/controller fitted to my bike today, i'll post an update and some pics on my thread.

Regards
Tom

[flyinmonkie]

Thanks guys,

That is as close to the drive sprocket as the idler can be. There is plenty of wrap on both sprockets, but the chain might be stretched a bit. I'll order some more chain and try that.

Tom, I think that is the same combo I have that works. It was just drawing 7 amps and I was seeing if there was a better combo. What is your no load draw?

It is my fault for fixing something that wasn't broken. ha ha At least it isn't totally fried inside.

Clay

[coldfusion594]

I just read all 22 pages... xml

lol, good job dude!
It was nice to see how the bike changed from beginning to end.

How do you like the hard tail? I want to make a non-hub electric bike also and being that I live in NJ the roads may be as bad as the dirt trails you were riding one

Thanks man! great bike... Hope mine turns out as successful as yours is

[flyinmonkie]

I just read all 22 pages... xml

lol, good job dude!
It was nice to see how the bike changed from beginning to end.

How do you like the hard tail? I want to make a non-hub electric bike also and being that I live in NJ the roads may be as bad as the dirt trails you were riding one

Thanks man! great bike... Hope mine turns out as successful as yours is

Thanks coldfusion. It won't be hard for your bike to turn out as good as mine, as at last report it wasn't running. The hard tail isn't too bad. I stand a lot, especially if it is rough. A thudbuster suspension seat post would help a lot. They are hard to come by over here though. I do want to do a full sus at some point. I need to get this one sorted and reliable first though.

In other news... I soldered in a wire across the trace I blew in the motor. And... It works. The motor is back on the bike and everything seems to be working. I didn't get time for a test ride, but will tomorrow. Then I will see the 1st stage drive chain is still skipping. If it is, I'll order some new heavy duty #25. Until then I will take it easy and try to limit the hard starts. We will see how that goes though.

Now it will back to finishing the top of the box. It has only been like a year. Well, maybe not quite that long. But it is time to finish it up.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

The chain still skips and the tensioner seems to loosen off. I'll order some more chain anyway. But, I'll look through my parts and see if I can come up with a way to prevent the tensioner from slipping as well. Other than that, it is all good.

I did go on a slow speed ride last night and I can see how the noise would bother someone at 15 kph or less. Over 20 kph, you just don't really notice it as it seems to be quieter. Add wind noise into that and it is no big deal.

Like everyone else, I'll watching the race thread closely for updates. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37908 Go team E. Luke, lets see a finish for once. You can come across the line with smoke and flames from your controller, motor, and batteries if you want, just finish.

Clay

[flyinmonkie]

I'm still sorting out the skipping chain. It only happens in second under high load and in third under medium to high load. It still seems to becoming from the first stage chain. It might be an alignment issue and something might be twisting slightly. I'll check the rear sprockets and the bike chain as well. It could be coming from the rear wheel and shaking the entire drive train.

I set up the first stage tensioner so it could not move, but the skip was still there. In doing so, I destroyed the wheel I had in the tensioner. I'll have to find something else to replace it with. It was just something I had lying around.

I'm so close. It is getting frustrating now. I just want to ride.

Clay

[TopCat]

I'm still sorting out the skipping chain. It only happens in second under high load and in third under medium to high load. It still seems to becoming from the first stage chain. It might be an alignment issue and something might be twisting slightly. I'll check the rear sprockets and the bike chain as well. It could be coming from the rear wheel and shaking the entire drive train.

I set up the first stage tensioner so it could not move, but the skip was still there. In doing so, I destroyed the wheel I had in the tensioner. I'll have to find something else to replace it with. It was just something I had lying around.

I'm so close. It is getting frustrating now. I just want to ride.

Clay

Snap!!!
I done the very same Clay mate. I was buggering around with things over the weekend and knelt on my castor wheel and broke it it also felt like I broke my knee.....ouch!!!

I managed to find a nice little cog for my tensioner out of an old minimoto gearbox.
I also ordered a couple of new batts 6s, to give me 48v. I'll get more once funds allow.

Regards
Tom

[flyinmonkie]

After rebuilding a tensioner wheel, I have looked at the rear sprockets. That, with another ride and I am sure the skipping is coming from the severely worn rear sprockets. After all that I could have changed them easily. I was sure from the sound that the skip was coming from the first stage, but I think it was just the shock of the skip at the rear creating an audio illusion.

I am off the get some new sprockets and see if that sorts it. Fingers crossed. Maybe I'll go with some new ones this time.

Clay