41MPH EVG SX bike with Magic Pie motor

[snellemin]

Coolbeans man. Looks like we are about 10-12 miles away from each other. Critical Mass is fun. I missed the CM yesterday, but still got to ride with some other folks on a different route for 16 miles. I'll be at the next one for sure and would be nice to have another ebiker in the group. Hit up the Houston Critical mass on Facebook.

[o00scorpion00o]

Lipo's are great. Just finding good ones is iffy at times. I don't understand the big deal with Nanotech batteries. They are not the greatest thing in the RC hobby. They puff up sooner vs cheap 40C lipo's like Gensace. I have abused my lipo's and they take a bit longer to balance out now. But what else do you expect after draining them in less than 5 minutes.
My two 20C 6s1p packs that has only seen Ebike duty, balance out the fastest. Bike doesn't even give the batteries a workout, but they do drop the most voltage under load as expected from a 20C cell.
My next set of ebike batteries will come from FMAdirect, which are the 60C 6s1p batteries. Good prices and a 60 day warranty. But I need to save up some to buy 8 of them. Goal is to have 24s2p or 12s4p setups with barely any voltage drop. BTW, I charge my cells @4.15V per cell for ebike use, which average out between 96-98% capacity.

I think you found a nice balance between speed, power and throttle response for normal road use.

By the way, what isyour total watts on acceleration ? mine is about 2900 watts, about 33 amps on 24S. It is decent and smooth, but at about 50-55 amps on 24S the acceleration is really good, you should try it if you haven't already.

Only thing is the noise and vibration come back so I have to be easy with the throttle.

The zippy's get very warm and are 20 C I thought they should not be so warm at only 33-34 amps, maybe 50 peak ?that's only about 6 or 7 C average on acceleration at 34 amps ?

[snellemin]

My controller is set for 50A battery power and Watts get pretty high at takeoff. You can see my controller setting at the beginning of the this thread.

To me, 20C is bare minimum for my liking. Mine do get a slightly warm after a commute, which is why I'm going with the 60C setup in the future.

I can only imagine if there was a 18Fet or 24Fet sensorless controller to mess around with.

[o00scorpion00o]

From the software pic it says 50 amps battery, That would mean 4500 watts on acceleration.

But what I want to know is that your actual or peak as one of your posts said 29-30 amps on acceleration which would mean 2700 watts on 24S. Because I've discovered the problems I'm having are just before 3kw on either 16 or 24S, and it's driving me crazy!

[snellemin]

Aaah, that 27A was continuous load at max speed on 24s.

[neptronix]

I'll tell you a secret about the 20C Zippy packs.
They are more like 10C in reality

IR ( according to the iCharger ) is double versus the 20C Turnigy packs.

Their strength is that they are smaller and lighter. You're best off running a higher amount of amp hours and lower C, like 5C or less continuous/peak.

[o00scorpion00o]

Okay so you are seeing about 4500 watts then on acceleration ?

That is really weird, I think I give up!

Actually I reversed polarity on my controller today, stupid mistake!

I created a thread in e bike technical, to see if the controller is toast!

[o00scorpion00o]

I'll tell you a secret about the 20C Zippy packs.
They are more like 10C in reality

IR ( according to the iCharger ) is double versus the 20C Turnigy packs.

Their strength is that they are smaller and lighter. You're best off running a higher amount of amp hours and lower C, like 5C or less continuous/peak.

Hey Nep, yeah I think 10C is a more realistic rating alright, I think HK need to re rate the Zippy's!

I was using only 5ah because I was testing the pie on 24S, I don't have enough LiPo for 2P But will go back to 16S when my mac parts come.

[snellemin]

My bike actually pulls around 6000W on acceleration and cuts off after a few seconds if I don't go gentle with the throttle.

[o00scorpion00o]

My bike actually pulls around 6000W on acceleration and cuts off after a few seconds if I don't go gentle with the throttle.

That's strange, all I get is 3kw even with a modded controller and soldered shunt !

Sure I can pull 5kw but I have to be careful with the throttle which is a pain in the ass.

So yours cuts out at 6kw and mine goes mad at 3kw, grgrgrgrgrgrr head exploding!

[snellemin]

I can see the frustration, especially when my controller is bone stock. The CA shows a peak of 79A today.

[snellemin]

46mph!

[o00scorpion00o]

46 mph, Getting clost to the 50 mph club!!!

Was that with the same battery and phase currents ?

[snellemin]

Yup, that was with the same phase current and batts. Dunno if the bike can hit 50mph though.

[o00scorpion00o]

Yup, that was with the same phase current and batts. Dunno if the bike can hit 50mph though.

I seriously can't understand what the fack is going on with my set up, same motor, same controller. I think my head is going to explode!

So what are you seeing again on acceleration ?

And you mst have had throttle turned to 100% ?

[snellemin]

At 100% I see 6KW on acceleration on the CA. And after thinking about it, I could go 50mph if I didn't have any voltage drop. But an 1000 dollar battery investment just to eak out a few more MPH is not on the priority list right now.

[o00scorpion00o]

At 100% I see 6KW on acceleration on the CA. And after thinking about it, I could go 50mph if I didn't have any voltage drop. But an 1000 dollar battery investment just to eak out a few more MPH is not on the priority list right now.

6kw ?

Can you do me a favour and send me a screen shot of your settings, if they are not different from your last screen shot ?

Thanks

[snellemin]

The screen would be the same. I haven't changed anything. I do have to check what is different in my CA though. I didn't ride my bike to work today, so it will be a bit before I get to it. I do know that my shunt resistance is set at around 1.75 ohms and verified to be near correct with my eagletree datalogger running at a lower voltage.

[snellemin]

Here are my new settings with 24s1p lipo. Torque has been toned down a lot. The bike doesn't cut off anymore with this settings at 100% throttle. I just tested this settings and tomorrow will see what happens. I'm going to use this setting when I bike with other bikers around me. These setting feels like how my old ebay kit accelerated.

[o00scorpion00o]

That would look to be slow enough

Kind of defeats having the Pie ?

My vibration problem goes away but I have to turn down the amps too much so again defeats the purpose of having a pie.

I have given up on trying to sort out the problem, so either the motor got damaged when it over heated or it just won't work properly at high power levels in sensorless mode. Maybe it varies from motor to motor and controller to controller ?

But to be honest I would rather a faster wind motor because 24S 2p is a lot of battery, and the 8T mac can do 40 mph on only 16S huge difference. I'm waiting on a new clutch, axle and keyway.

I would really love another pie to test with halls to see if the problem was the sensorless controller or not!

[snellemin]

Here are my new settings I rode with this morning. Top speed was 44.3mph. Plenty of torque and smooth throttle.

However, I did get a buzzing noise once during acceleration. Kinda the same that you are experiencing. Only happened once. I'm thinking it's my phase current setting. I'll change it later and see if it happens again.

[o00scorpion00o]

HMM your phase amps seem a little low, going by the battery x2.5 rule, would be about 111 amps phase ?

I've my LiPo back as 16S 2P, don't want to kill it yet and bulk charging is really handy.

I've given up on it now, I'll just turn the amps down and accept defeat.

I wish I know someone else locally with a pie that I could test.

But try turn up your phase to 111 and see what happens.

[snellemin]

It would be easier if I really understood how the timing, throttle curve ramped up in this controller.

The phase amps is just for startup, creeping and acceleration, which at one point crosses over to the battery amp settings when the throttle increases. The 40/60A settings worked, but the timing between going from phase to battery Amp settings was too off. At 45/66, it is near perfect. I'm going by the 1.5 multiplier over the 2.5, since the bike is running on 24s and the Magic pie being a torque motor already. I don't think I would be able to get away with the 1.5 multiplier with my old 500w Ebay motor.

Increasing the phase amps(2.3-2.5 multiplier) will increase my torque during acceleration, making for a nice zippy ride. But that is dangerous when you have 500-600 other bikers around you. Hence my new toned down settings and see how the bike reacts. So with my morning commute, the bike had good acceleration. No wheelie popping startup torque, but a nice linear power band. Climbing power on the inclines in the parking garage was good too. I'm going to a 1.6 multiplier soon and see if that buzz(timing issue?) is reproducible or not.

[hodgie]

Hey - interesting talk. Could use some advice.

Brand new to the forum and new to doing mods

I have an EVG too with working Heinzman geared 500W brushed motor - everything is stock except a LiMnCO2 10ah 36V bottle battery instead of the awful lead acid.

I live in Colorado - would like extra power and a little more speed (maybe 25-30 mph max).
Use the bike for errands, 10 mi ride to the lake for a run, occasional dirt road/trail action, lots of hills.

Any thoughts about what I might put in the way of a setup for a front motor?

I love the versatility and simplicity of the Pie but is that just way too much motor and weght?

Thx in advance.

[o00scorpion00o]

Hey - interesting talk. Could use some advice.

Brand new to the forum and new to doing mods

I have an EVG too with working Heinzman geared 500W brushed motor - everything is stock except a LiMnCO2 10ah 36V bottle battery instead of the awful lead acid.

I live in Colorado - would like extra power and a little more speed (maybe 25-30 mph max).
Use the bike for errands, 10 mi ride to the lake for a run, occasional dirt road/trail action, lots of hills.

Any thoughts about what I might put in the way of a setup for a front motor?

I love the versatility and simplicity of the Pie but is that just way too much motor and weght?

Thx in advance.

Hi Hodgie, welcome to the Sphere!

It's best if you create your own thread and ask all the questions you want there.

You see it would be hard to answer your question in just one reply!

But basically I think the biggest limiting factor would be your battery! afaik they are rated for 1C only, so that means you should really only pull about 10 amps from it, if it were 2C you could pull 20 amps, and so on.....

But you would be probably looking at spending nearly 1000 USD on a new system. I would be recommending a rear hub, unless you got good strong steel forks!


Mark