A123 20Ah Quebec Group buy(Canada) cells ARRIVED 24.57$/cell

[ambroseliao]

How does the hole affect the performance/longevity of the cell?!?

If it damages it irreparably, then these will need to be babied!

[Ypedal]

a cell like this should be disposed... retired... preferably with smoke and filmed for youtube pleasure...

but has no business being in a pack ( solvent smell = bad for you, and your pack.)

[agniusm]

Yep, found the hole. what does vacuum do? Is there a way to still use it? How does that affect performance?

[Ypedal]

the vacuum keeps the cell layers tight, and prevents solvent from getting out..

once the solvent evaporates the IR will increase, and potentially moisture can get in causing further problems i can only speculate on..

feel free to inject some salty water in there for learning purposes !!

[agniusm]

good to know. So they are on fragile side, need to thinkof some sort of hardcase then...

[texaspyro]

I have "heard" that the positive tab is separated from the foil by a teflon spacer, but that the pouch foil is connected to the negative tab.

I highly doubt it would be teflon... way too bitchy to bond to reliably.

[999zip999]

Most like it is a manufactor defect. Is this cell marked usa or korea ? Does it have a B on it ?

[agniusm]

It does not have A or B markings on it, just P3 near positive terminal. I doubt it's teflon. I thought teflon is white and it looks that isolator is clear rubbery material. Cell is marked USA. Would still make a nice phone battery, charge it once a month

[Doctorbass]

My cells arrived and on the white plastic holders in teh box, there was few grind of salt. I noticed that the cells kept some trace of them but without puncture.. i STRONGLY recommand to clean these particules from teh cells to avoid them to punctur ethe protective envelope.

Even if it happen, I would suggest you can use a vaccum cleaner to revove the air and to apply a tape to seal this little hole. It hapeneed with one of my lipo cell and it work great and did not had degradation.. but as well i recommand keeping an eye on the internal resistance and self discharge over the time.

Please remind that 100% of all my A123 20Ah pouches are ok.

Doc

[puddleglum]

I'm following this thread with much interest as these cells are looking quite interesting. Please pardon a couple of dumb noobie questions. Am I right in assuming that there is no guarantee from the sellers that the cells are going to be in useable? Is it an "as is" deal? Also, does everyone who buys these cells need to plan to load test every cell like a few of you have done?

[dnmun]

i think just the small sampling we have seen indicates they are all very close in performance. 2.5% for the full range of data is pretty good imo. that implies one sigma is about .2Ah, not bad imo.

[agniusm]

I agree, most cells are in 19Ah+ range and that's a good deal for that price and safer chemistry. Even if they were 18Ah still look attractive. The only thing remain unknown, how long they will last at specified discharge rate. I am drawing 30A max, prob. not even that so hard to say.

[999zip999]

Agniusm 30a ? When are you going to they 60a.? We need a test on the buss bars. 60a is a start. Good luck.

[caspo6]

Got my x38 cells today - $18.40/cell + $175 shipping to Houston, TX = $908.50 USD, or $23.91/cell.

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Packaging was okay, each cell bubble wrapped and in plastic holder, box well taped together. Cells were all in good condition.

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Battery tabs did not seem disturbed in any way and all had stickers with bar codes that matched the number on the cell. Cells were variously marked A0,A1,a1,A2,a2,B, and unmarked. Two cells on the top of the third box had "900 mAh 3.7V" tags taped onto them.

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Majority of voltages were either 3.23V or 3.24V. It was interesting that unmarked cells #5,7,&8 all had voltages farther away from the average cell.

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Now... figuring out how to assemble them into x3 12s1p packs!!!


Box #1/3
#1 - 3.23V AO
#2 - 3.23V A0
#3 - 3.23V A0
#4 - 3.23V A1
#5 - 3.28V
#6 - 3.23V A0
#7 - 3.19V
#8 - 3.19V
#9 - 3.23V a1
#10- 3.23V a1
#11- 3.23V a1
#12- 3.23V a1
#13- 3.23V A0
#14- 3.24V a1
Box #2/3
#15- 3.23V A0
#16- 3.23V a1
#17- 3.23V A0
#18- 3.23V A0
#19- 3.23V A2
#20- 3.23V A2
#21- 3.23V
#22- 3.23V A0
#23- 3.23V B
#24- 3.24V B
#25- 3.24V A2
#26- 3.24V A2
#27- 3.24V A2
#28- 3.24V A2
Box #3/3
#29- 3.24V A0 '900mAh 3.7V' tag
#30- 3.24V A0 '900mAh 3.7V' tag
#31- 3.24V a2
#32- 3.24V A2
#33- 3.24V A2
#34- 3.24V A2
#35- 3.24V
#36- 3.24V
#37- 3.24V
#38- 3.24V

[pgt400]

mine had the same non a123 900ma label....i suspect the 900mah tag has something to do with being legal to ship via air dhl.

[Doctorbass]

i suspect the 900mah tag has something to do with being legal to ship via air dhl.

Doc

[ohzee]

My cells came from the same source but shipped via UPS to me in the states and had no such tag for what it's worth.

[ohzee]

Considering this is the only 20ah group buy thread open to post in will update with my 1st capacity test on a random cell.

18932 Ah discharged 3.65 to 2.3 on 1 random cell.

I don't have enough time to do them all , but so far they look pretty alright to me.

Same source as this group buy - packaging also looked the same.

[agniusm]

Considering this is the only 20ah group buy thread open to post in will update with my 1st capacity test on a random cell.

18932 Ah discharged 3.65 to 2.3 on 1 random cell.

I don't have enough time to do them all , but so far they look pretty alright to me.

Same source as this group buy - packaging also looked the same.

mAH I think, if you would do few cycles you will end up at ~19.5ah.

[ohzee]

Considering this is the only 20ah group buy thread open to post in will update with my 1st capacity test on a random cell.

18932 Ah discharged 3.65 to 2.3 on 1 random cell.

I don't have enough time to do them all , but so far they look pretty alright to me.

Same source as this group buy - packaging also looked the same.

mAH I think, if you would do few cycles you will end up at ~19.5ah.

haha yea sorry was late and there may have been beer involved thanks

[mistercrash]

With the testing done to these cells with good results and all, and the price starting to be affordable for many, I am curious to know what those cells would bring to people using their E-bikes all year long and live in parts of the world where the temperatures drop to below 5°C five or six months in the year. There are bikes with battery packs that can be easily taken off the bike and brought inside to warm up before charging. Or the whole bike can be brought inside so the pack warms up before charging. But for many who ride on E-scooters or small E-motorcycles, in which the battery is not easily taken off and the whole thing is too heavy to go up stairs to bring inside the house. What are the alternatives for those E-riders.
I'm thinking of what can be done that is efficient, reliable, affordable and simple.
I'm asking this because I have been fantasizing about a 24S3P pack made with those cells, but my scooter has to sleep in the garage, and the battery is not easily accessible. So other than a way to keep the battery above 5°C inside the scooter or to insulate and heat my garage (I would also have to air condition it in the summer from what I've read) What are the solutions?
Right now, from what I've read about those cells in this forum and in the Battery University link that was graciously posted, I don't know why anyone that lives too far North should get any of these cells. They just don't seem to be made for harsh environments and use. They are capable of good discharges but they are physically weak. No extreme ambient temps and easy to puncture or wear through their thin coating.
I'm not trying to start an argument or bring down this product, I'm just questioning why anyone would want to use them when living in an environment that goes against the cell's capabilities six months of the year and for applications that stresses their physical integrity beyond its limits.

[miro13car]

mistercrash,
I live in severe winter land , Canada central and I see those cells as ideal for my bike, I ride in winter all year long,
When you read specs of 20Ah A123 pouch what it says about temperature? - minus 30 C , you didn't read specs?
Excellent rating.

[miro13car]

ohzee,
can you answer, please,
how many did you buy?
What voltages on arrival?
you forgot about current on your test, what current?
Are you sure it was 2.3V cut off or 2.5V cut off?
AT lower than 1C current you can get 19Ah even until 2.5V. Not so easy when you do 20Amps discharge .
what equipment did you use?
thanks

[mistercrash]

mistercrash,
I live in severe winter land , Canada central and I see those cells as ideal for my bike, I ride in winter all year long,
When you read specs of 20Ah A123 pouch what it says about temperature? - minus 30 C , you didn't read specs?
Excellent rating.

Yes I did read the specs, and you're right, no problem for these cells to discharge at -30°C. My concern is with recharging the cells, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough on that, it has been suggested in this very thread to recharge at no less than 10°C and no more than 30°C. That's according to what is said in the Battery University website. You didn't read thread? Very narrow temp window for recharging. At what temperature do you recharge your A123 pouches?

[dnmun]

With the testing done to these cells with good results and all, and the price starting to be affordable for many, I am curious to know what those cells would bring to people using their E-bikes all year long and live in parts of the world where the temperatures drop to below 5°C five or six months in the year. There are bikes with battery packs that can be easily taken off the bike and brought inside to warm up before charging. Or the whole bike can be brought inside so the pack warms up before charging. But for many who ride on E-scooters or small E-motorcycles, in which the battery is not easily taken off and the whole thing is too heavy to go up stairs to bring inside the house. What are the alternatives for those E-riders.
I'm not trying to start an argument or bring down this product, I'm just questioning why anyone would want to use them when living in an environment that goes against the cell's capabilities six months of the year and for applications that stresses their physical integrity beyond its limits.

why not put a heater in the battery compartment and heat the battery like they do on the volt? i am sure you have a plug if you charge it out there. insulate it in winter and then park it where you can keep the charger and heater going. that should let you use it for commuting.