Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS fit most of the frame UPDATE 2013

[auraslip]

I'm concerned that my dropouts won't be strong enough. With the torque arms installed I'm worried that the welds connecting the drop outs to the chain stays will fail.



Can anyone tell me if this is likely to happen at 10kw? This is a air hardened tool steel frame. It's light, and I'm thinking maybe doc's torque plates will work. But I'm also thinking the dropouts will just rip out of the bike!

[neptronix]

That is rather thick for steel.
Personally it doesn't freak me out. Stronger looking design than most.

Then again, for 10kW i would say definitely get a dual suspension frame.

[auraslip]

Then again, for 10kW i would say definitely get a dual suspension frame.

So I can only carry enough batteries for a 15 minute ride? Sorry, but this bike isn't going to be a toy recreational vehicle

[neptronix]

Then again, for 10kW i would say definitely get a dual suspension frame.

So I can only carry enough batteries for a 15 minute ride? Sorry, but this bike isn't going to be a toy recreational vehicle

Front fork mount ( oatnet style ) and rear rack ( seatpost, but reinforced ) and 2.5kWh of battery is how my Genesis V2100 is gonna roll. And the NEXT wal-mart bike will prolly have ammo cans welded to the sides so that it can carry 16 5AH packs.

A triangle is a great place to mount batteries but i'm done with hardtails.

Back on topic - i ordered some of these. They will be surrogate dropouts for a custom welded up swingarm. These will save me $$ over having dropouts being precisely cut out, and a derailleur hanger installed.. thanks docbass for making these available

[teklektik]

Doc - TA's arrived yesterday.
Scary strong!
Many thanks!!!

[RMJ]

Pm sent.

[wojtek]

any suggestions which chain tensioner should work with the torque arm and single speed freewheel on xlyte 54xx on KMX Cobra please??

as the position of the mount for the tensioner is different than originally when screwed to the dropouts

[Doctorbass]

Pm sent.

Torque arm sent

Doc

[auraslip]

Got mine today. Nice and beefy. Heavy too.

[auraslip]

Shoot. I just realized that the new version I have aren't the same as these:


The inside lips curve. I don't know if I'm going to be able to tap them out like in the picture above.

Which sucks because they have way too much play for me to feel safe using them. The drop outs themselves are hard, but the axle is soft steel and won't take kindly to rocking back and forward with regen and acceleration. Possibly it the dropouts may eventually dig into the axle itself.

Doc, if you won't make clamping drop outs, will you at least make them like this:

and out of softer steel that is easier to tap out?

[auraslip]

Actually, just make the bottom part square so it's easier to drill.

[Doctorbass]

Actually, just make the bottom part square so it's easier to drill.

Yeah probably that the next gen will have that.

About the slit, it might be a little more complicated because if using the T-A stock as is and without adding the screw, that slit would definitively weaken the torque arm

And if i would make them with the screw just as you shown but without the 1/8 plate, the labor to make that for evrery set would just discurage me from offering them

I would need to charge like 50 or 55$ per set for the extra time for doing them.

I will never offer SOFT material for the torque arms.

Actually, my giant is using the second gen of T-A and i'm using regen alot and alot of power ( 20kW+ on the actuyal 5305) and the axel is still perfect shape and the torque arm too... no mark, no sing of weakened area, just still perfect flatness as they should be.

Doc

[auraslip]

I understand that you don't want to compromise the performance of your torque arms for a handful of people that want the best, safest, and easiest to use option. As for me, I have a serious nut allergy. Also, there is quite a bit of play, they're definitely not "tap on." This may have more to do with crystalytes QC than yours.

anyways, I'm well on my way, and will post a guide on how to make these torque arms clamping on my website and on here when I'm done.

that metal is hard though. broke the t-handle on my tap and then my tap. Believe me doc, when they're clamping they don't have to be too hard. you could make them out of aluminum and they'd hold up just as well as they are now. Also, if they were just a bit longer it would help for clearance issues. Especially with the new cro motor having a 16mm axle.

[oatnet]

I understand that you don't want to compromise the performance of your torque arms for a handful of people that want the best, safest, and easiest to use option.

Auraslip, why don't you back up your OPINION by releasing your own version, you might find there is a big gap between working a solution and producing/distributing it for a wide range of users. For example, if your dropouts are epoxyed onto aluminum dropouts, won't the clamping action commit the big no-no of flexing aluminum dropouts?

Another option would be to taking it up with Doc offline. You have already expressed your OPINION on other threads (where it was also suggested you release your own), I don't know it is appropriate on someone else's for-sale thread. Doc has the right to make them however he feels they are safest. I imagine there are a lot of people who will be frustrated with you if you harass Doc into thinking that making them is more hassle than its worth. Talk is cheap, production is hard.

-JD

[wojtek]

JD +1

Auraslip, you could also help those who need custom made dropouts, as Doc is unable to provide them ..

[auraslip]

Sorry, I didn't realize I was harassing him. The reason I'm being vocal in public forums is to encourage discussion in the hopes enough people will see the light and ask the good doc to make proper drop outs.

I don't have any desire to manufacturer a torque arm solution. Just to point people in the correct direction.

[wojtek]

Sorry, I didn't realize I was harassing him. The reason I'm being vocal in public forums is to encourage discussion in the hopes enough people will see the light and ask the good doc to make proper drop outs.

I don't have any desire to manufacturer a torque arm solution. Just to point people in the correct direction.

im glad you changed / edited the wording of this post

but you still imply Doc dropouts are not proper /correct? he was pulling a school bus with those dropouts installed. He sold 100s of them, they are tested and working great. Practice, experience and testing speak louder to me than theoretical discussions...
You need to chill....

[auraslip]

If you honestly think this solution is better than a good clamping design you need to go study motorcycle dropouts.

The whole idea of using a nut to torque down a hub motor is based on the idea of not having to do any modifications to the bicycle frame. So if you're going to modify a bicycle frame, why the hell not do it the correct way that has worked for real motor vehicles for a century?

In any case, you are correct that it is rude of me to air my design critiques in this thread. So I apologize to dr. bass, and will move all further concerns to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38885

[wojtek]

If you honestly think this solution is better than a good clamping design

nobody said that

[oatnet]

Sorry, I didn't realize I was harassing him. The reason I'm being vocal in public forums is to encourage discussion in the hopes enough people will see the light and ask the good doc to make proper drop outs.

Appropriate discussion for a public thread. Not appropriate for someone's sale thread.

I don't have any desire to manufacturer a torque arm solution. Just to point people in the correct direction.

It is real easy to provide "direction", real hard to backup the talk and produce a product. Besides, Doc already responded to your "direction" on another thread, and told you he had different criteria. Bringing it up on his sale thread is harassment.

You are a good man Auraslip - I'd like to see you market this - but you have to do the leg work yourself.

-JD

[Floont]

Help me out here...

If Doc doesn't get feedback on his design, then how is he to build a better or alternative product (if he so desires)?

I actually like Doc's current design the way it is now and have no desire to have a clamping solution, myself. I bought them from Doc in their current configuration and found that they are quite snug, fit perfectly on my x5404/Mongoose, and they are a great value too!

Still, I feel product evolution commentary is important as is feedback when stated in a positive meaningful way and is healthy even in a sales thread.

[oatnet]

[color=#000080]Help me out here...

If Doc doesn't get feedback on his design, then how is he to build a better or alternative product (if he so desires)?

The nuance here is that Doc _already_ got the feedback from Aura multiple times in another thread, and _already_ responded multiple times that he had different design criteria. Rehashing it here yet again was the issue.

That said, there are plenty of avenues for giving Doc feedback on his design, from a PM, to a thread using the torque arm, to a new thread you create. Posting on a sales thread would be my last choice, because it isn't relevant to the transaction, plus if there was any good content in the post, it would be LOST when the sales thread is eventually PURGED from the forum, whereas a normal thread would not be deleted.

-JD

[FastDemise]

I love his T-A and only wished he made a pair that was made from 1/4" steel for us sissies running <5kW. Using Nordlock washers ontop of the T-A I just barely can squeeze the nut on to tighten it all up. Perhaps crazy talk as extra stuff just complicates things. Keep up the good work Doc

[wojtek]

hey Doc,
do you still have some in stock? i would prefer the tighter ones to fit xlyte 5404 if you have some!

[richirich1113]

Need another set- PM sent

Thanks.