Turnigy 80-100-B up for the challenge?

[coldfusion594]

Hello all

I am now compiling all the facts that I have learned from all of you from this forum and have decided to start building my own E-Bike
Now this bike must have a range of about 20 miles and a speed of around 35mph (however this is NJ so people do 50 mph)

I was looking at this bike for the frame, I work for the company so I get a discount and an excellent quality bike:
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/65032?fe ... ue_0=Black

The motor behind it all is what I mainly have questions about:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... (eq:_70-55
^will this RC motor be able to get me to my desired speed of around 50mph? I was hoping to get it to that speed using one gear, however this is where my lack of experience stops me, is this motor up to the task? or would you recommend another motor?

Info that I believe is relevant:
-Bike weight: 35lbs
-My fat ass: 145lbs
-Plus batteries (we'll go on the heavy side) 20lbs
-Total weight: 200lbs

Thanks for your help!

Karl

[fizzit]

Yeah that motor will get you going that fast! I'm not sure for how long, though. You might want to go with the 180kv so you can spin it faster with less voltage. Also with one speed, it will be very hard to get started for that motor if it is geared for 50.

[E-racer]

I have built two vehicles with 80-100's w/ 100amp continuous controllers/200 amp burst. The scooter is single speed and geared for 45mph it can get there but stops pulling hard around 35 mph. My Stinky has the same motor/controller, does 62 mph, and pulls great all the way there. Off the line the bike is incomparably faster than the single speed scooter. The difference in my case is the NuVinci CVT. A through the gears setup would yield 50 mph with retained acceleration as well. Regardless I recommend multiple ratios (2 minimum) to do 50mph w/ an 80-100 @ 12s/13s lipo. I have heard of people running them at 72 and 90+ volt. I am confident that would make a single speed setup do 50+ mph easily.

O, I have been running the scooter for over 2 years with a KBL48201. These setups run the motor on the hot side. They will have magnet degradation. I ride often and am quiet abusive to my vehicles. The scooter has never had a failure. My Stinky (recently finished) actually had the first 80-100 failure. There was visibly less epoxy holding the magnets to the can on my brand new motor. It held together for 350 miles but the glue finally gave in. I bought a whole new motor for it and added 500wh/hr more lipo.

The pack is now 1.25 kw/hr or 12s5p 50volt 25 amp hr. For 50mph setups 1kw/hr is a minimum. I started with 750 w/hr and had to restrain my throttle hand if I wanted decent range. 1.25 kw/hr seems great.

Depending on your fabrication skills you may want to consider making an oil cooled setup for the motor. My next build will definitely be a twin oil cooled setup at 24s 100 volt and 10+ kw/hr. This is once I graduate and get a job.

[crossbreak]

I would definitely go for the 130KV motor! Most people want even less. The motor should not be used above 48V (130KV Version), or 36Volt for the 180KV Version. The bearings will wear out quickly if you go above. 72V is possible, the question is how long.

You could go for an 13s Lipo Setup with 25ah, ,like e-race already mentioned, that would be the right thing for you. The controller should be able to run 130amps at least if you want to go that high speed with a single gear.

I recommend using a three speed gear hub, the are very durable and lightweight. You will use the second gear most time which does not have any gear losses.

[fizzit]

I recommend using a three speed gear hub, the are very durable and lightweight. You will use the second gear most time which does not have any gear losses.

These do not survive well at all with RC motors. Maybe if you used one as part of the reduction it would survive.

[E-racer]

80-100 setups will toast 3 speed hubs. I have used and toasted those for a very long time on small 2 stroke powered vehicles. I've got the oil cooling setup churning in my mind right now. I think I will be implementing it in the near future. If the NuVinci is not an option, through the gears is the way to go IMO. With proper gearing you can keep the motor below 6000 rpm no matter what voltage you are running... I have read about multiple people running 72+ volts.

[Thud]

The motor should not be used above 48V (130KV Version), or 36Volt for the 180KV Version. The bearings will wear out quickly if you go above. 72V is possible, the question is how long.

The stock bearings are questionable for sure, but ball bearings are easily upgradable...& if your chaseing maximum power, these motors produce best when spun between 8k & 9.5k rpm's
definatly gear apropriatly....

if i am running an HV160 on 12cells, I perfer the 180kv...running sensors the 130kv works best on 18cells. my re-winds are typicly volted to 20cells to find the rpm sweet spot.

there is a lot of Bunk about the skirt bearings causing problems....the truth is after a proper 2 minute warm up, there is no measurable losses with the skirt bearings on the amp meter in these rpm ranges.

to answer the OP question.....Yes, more than ready.
be curious to see when the next batch gets deliverd to Hobby king.....been a loong time on back order.

(EDIT) add that i missed the point this bike Must go 50mph

[E-racer]

They can be ordered from sky hobby. I just received one for $150 shipped delivered to the US. http://skyhobby.en.alibaba.com/product/476092519-212631801/ATN_series_C80100_08_Outrunner_Brushless_electric_motors_for_RC_toys.html

[Bluefang]

You might want to check their availability, i have been dealing with them recently and they dont seem to have any motors left. Or atleast i have been unable to order any

[coldfusion594]

I love your enthusiasm guys!!

You could go for an 13s Lipo Setup with 25ah, ,like e-race already mentioned, that would be the right thing for you. The controller should be able to run 130amps at least if you want to go that high speed with a single gear.

I was thinking that the setup would be more efficient than a hub motor so maybe some 8ah 4s zippy lipo packs?

O, I have been running the scooter for over 2 years with a KBL48201. <== Is that a controller?

Depending on your fabrication skills you may want to consider making an oil cooled setup for the motor.

How would an oil cooled setup even work on an RC motor? any links to builds of people who did it before? My fabrication skills are non existent lol... BUT I have some mean cereal making skills (if that helps)

I have no idea how to make a transmission on it but going back to what other people said, wouldn't the RC motor just rip the shit out of it?
How is the bike looking also? any complaints from anyone?

[sn0wchyld]

check leadershobby, they have stock from time to time. I've bought 2 so far, the second was only $130 shipped express!

[lostrack]

Depending on your fabrication skills you may want to consider making an oil cooled setup for the motor.

How would an oil cooled setup even work on an RC motor? any links to builds of people who did it before?[/quote]

+1

[Thud]

With all the talk about putting oil in the hubbies for better heat conduction to the case...& reading up on the power-dense inducion motors that are suppercooled....I am definatly taking a shot a a closed avtive cooling set up for the big outrunners.

More to follow once I get my ducks in a row.

how do we get a thread back in topic?

[E-racer]

Thud are you thinking about doing an oil bath? Basically the whole motor would be in oil...? This is the route I am considering as well. I think I could vary the fill level to optimize drag loss/cooling effect.

[sn0wchyld]

Thud are you thinking about doing an oil bath? Basically the whole motor would be in oil...? This is the route I am considering as well. I think I could vary the fill level to optimize drag loss/cooling effect.

i'm not so sure a bath would work for these motors. oil filled hubs seem to have good results, but bare in mind they're spinning at around 500rpm max. these little guys are spinning at about 10x that, so the drag losses are going to be much greater. (doesnt drag increase at the square of speed?)

sealing up the stator so you can pump coolant around the windings might work well though, particually if its then pumped through a radiator mounted in a high airflow area. It'd also let you mount the motors inside a frame, both for stealth and protection.

[coldfusion594]

I would definitely go for the 130KV motor! Most people want even less. The motor should not be used above 48V (130KV Version), or 36Volt for the 180KV Version. The bearings will wear out quickly if you go above. 72V is possible, the question is how long.

So I should use the 130kv motor if I want to use 48 volts?
Im looking at around 10 miles, but lets make it 15 (just to be safe) I do not want to wear down the batteries too much

[Thud]

Now we are back on topic!
sorry for the tangent Coldfusion.

The only advantage of the lower Kv motor is the smaller step the gearing reduction needs to make. I am the worst guy to ask about range & how many Watt's of battery you need. Nearly all my experiance is focused on speed trails & track performance.

But I would want the biggest battery i could carry for a couple reasons:
1) battery life.....keeping the depth of discharge reasonable will give your batteries their longest life expectancy.
2) there is allways something coming up & you may need the extra range (if available)

[E-racer]

I agree with thud. Nothing is better than just piling on as much lipo as you can. I am at the point that I think 1kW/hr is a minimum on 100 amp 80-100's

[coldfusion594]

I agree with thud. Nothing is better than just piling on as much lipo as you can. I am at the point that I think 1kW/hr is a minimum on 100 amp 80-100's

haha what does that mean? I have very little battery knowledge so please... baby steps

Can you post a link to the battery I should get and how many batteries I would need so I have can get an idea?
Sorry!

Don't worry about the whole getting off topic thing, haha it seemed pretty on topic to me

[sn0wchyld]

I agree with thud. Nothing is better than just piling on as much lipo as you can. I am at the point that I think 1kW/hr is a minimum on 100 amp 80-100's

haha what does that mean? I have very little battery knowledge so please... baby steps

Can you post a link to the battery I should get and how many batteries I would need so I have can get an idea?
Sorry!

Don't worry about the whole getting off topic thing, haha it seemed pretty on topic to me

1kwh is a measure of capacity... ie you have the capacity to draw 1kw for an hour. the other part of that is if you're running a 80100 at 5kw, you'll want batteries that are capable of atleast a 5c discharge, ie 5kw motor / 1kwh of battery = 5C draw. Most lipo wont even break a sweat doing that though.

[Thud]

Alright cold fusion, lets get serious.

what is your previous RC experiance with regard to batteries?
I will link you to lipo threads if you have not looked at them already.....if no previous Lipo experiance I recomend you read Dogmans excellent advice in several of his posts. search,read & understand. A ping will definatly be safer...but thats not where the devil lives

using a single reduction, forget 50mph....you'll destroy everything way sooner than reasonable.....the only bike i've set up that ran 50+ comfortably had 2 80-100's at 180kv & I still had a custom 2-speed transmision.

with a simple reduction to drive the rear wheel I will recomend a 30 mph max speed. This motor will deliver spirited performance & not be teribly overlaoded at lower speeds.

if your going to use an rc controller, the only reasonable option is an castle ICEHV160. ($$$$) You need to add additional caps to keep it protected. Again, lots of talk about that on the forum.
whatever advice you follow for battery chemistry....you'll want at least 20amp hours (assuming your running a castle controller & 12 cells)

now...Your bike selections looks sturdy & a fair step up from the bike shaped object's at the local wallmart. I think it will do fine.
reality check complete.

[Idontwanttopedal]

The esc I got can run up to 17s do you think a 80100 will run on 16s ok or go up in smoke real quick
My 80100 is a 130kv so top rpm on 16s is around same as 180kv on 48v

[Thud]

sounds like the fightercat 200 IDWP.
yes the motor will handle the voltage without any problems....you just need to gear it properly & i would recomend grabbing an -add on cycle anilyst with the big shunt to measure the amps your feeding the motor. I know that controller is programable also...so maybe setting the saftey leves for cut-out in the parameters would be a benifit also.

I have one but have yet to do any testing with it.

[coldfusion594]

Baha

what is your previous RC experiance with regard to batteries?

I read almost all the posts on pretty much all the battery stuff but never got too technical with it because I am still in College and I want to save some brain power for finals that are coming up

using a single reduction, forget 50mph....you'll destroy everything way sooner than reasonable.....the only bike i've set up that ran 50+ comfortably had 2 80-100's at 180kv & I still had a custom 2-speed transmision.

One problem... Although that would be great for other people, I want to be able to keep up with traffic going down a main road that I use to go to work... Although the speed limit is 35mph because this is Jersey most people do 50mph
Any hub motor that can do that speed without killing itself or a controller? I have seen Greyborg's motor but seem a little pricey

I was thinking about using Zippy Lipo's for the batteries
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... se%5F.html
^== these any good? or what would you recommend?

[Bluefang]

Can you add to your user info where your from, cause those batteries are from the Australian website.
Your better off using the Zippy 20C 6s5000mah batteries as they seem be better value, cost vrs capacity

50mph....might be abit difficult if your using a single speed system, you will most likely kill the controller in low speed starts. Greyborgs motor wont seem that pricy once you factor in all the machining you have to do to get a RC motor to work etc.