RC reduction Simplified

[Thud]

Beta unit is boxed & in the mail.

here are a couple pics of the 1st try.


all up weight with a 6374 motor mounted:


in english:


its a little heaver than i planed on, but with the .625" shaft & large bearings its plenty beefy. & i can shave weight by releiving the sprocket & swiss cheeseing the casting where its un-stressed. but that does include a slipper clutch.

head on shot:


I have a new casting pattern made to address all the little issues revealed while assembling this one. & its a little lighter also.
may give in & make the motor slide for chain tension adjustment...it will make the unit 100% more set up friendly
do you like the clear chain gaurd or do i get a sheet of black abs for it?

this is going into the beta stage now...we'll see what meets the testers expectations & where we can improve the packadge.

[kevo]

Awesome job and great stuff Thud! Your offerings are coming together nicely and are very tempting

[Whiplash]

That's awesome! What's the price?

[GITech]

That looks GREAT Thud!

I think you are hitting the nail right on the head!

The clear cover is perfect, cause you can paint it any color you like if you choose. Paint it from the inside just like painting an RC car/truck body and it will be very shiny and protected from scratching the paint.

I do agree you should go with slotted motor mounting holes and eliminate the slack roller. That would allow the cover to not have to be cut out for the roller, cut out the cost of the roller assy, and more importantly it would make it unidirectional without modification..for those who need it to drive right handed to the cranks, they could just flip it over and reverse the motor direction without having a slack roller to think about.

I will be interested in these, it's got me thinkin about doing a second ebike for the misses that is less complicated and costly than mine. Thanks for doing this work!

Later,
Jay

[Thud]

I hear you,
that slack roller is an afterthought to compensate for my lack of inventoried drive sprockets....i thought i had the correct ones in a box somewhere....It seemes I really don't
but after working through it last weekend.....slots will definatly make set up easier & maintance less of a chore.....

delivering trannys this week then re-building my cnc machine for the umteenth time....baby steps.


I have an idea for a quick-change tool holder...need to test that idea & see if it works.

Whip: still crunching #s......its less than i was thinking earlyer in the thread. just need to re-pour a few sets of castings & time the machinproccess with the freash jigs. Another 2 weeks & these will be in the sales section with options.

[Kepler]

Great work Thud. Put me on the list for a unit when they become available. This is going to be perfect to use in conjunction with my push button RC throttle interface.

[E-racer]

From what I understand there are a lot of Chinese companies that will cast aluminum parts for very reasonable prices. You may want to consider looking into it if you want to do a production run.

[Burtie]

Hey Thud,
This is all looking like extremely good stuff, excellent work!
Will potentially simplify the construction of rc motored bikes a lot

Do you think that casting would benefit from a lug projecting beyond the motor, so you could attach a bracket/brace to the cross bar, preventing any tendancy for the clamp to rotate on the seat tube ( if any one should find it necessary ) ?
Seems like this might reduce the load requirements of the motor bracket seat post clamp significantly ?

EDit:
Looking closely at the photos, I think you probably have it already covered. Looks like there would be plenty of space to attach a bracket to the motor mountings if required, without fouling the chain.

[etard]

Put me on the list Thud, It's cheap enough to not pass up, friction model please! What's the deal on these motors? Have you tried external hall sensors for using a 12 FET Infinion?

Kepler,
Is there a thread on this RC interface?

[Kepler]

No dedicated thread on the interface, just bits and pieces in my last friction drive thread. I stopped posting stuff on the the friction drive as I think the whole concept had been pretty well covered. However, nothing has stopped in relation to development and the button interface has been a big part of the development.

The button throttle interface has become so refined now it really is a viable option for a direct drive setup as well as friction drives. This is why I am excited to see Thud's development.

[farmkid4]

Will you be selling them with a motor?

[Thud]

Which motor?

I haven't rulled the idea out....

[farmkid4]

Which motor?

I haven't rulled the idea out....

I was thinking with a 63mm outrunner or similar.

Keep up the good work!

[kevo]

Inexpensive ($35-40) motors useful for Thuds reduction unit are linked in adrian's thread over here
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34586&start=30

[deVries]

I really think a re-wound & terminated 80/85 would make a awsome BB drive set up & I will test that on my old FS Marin some time this summer.

When you say "awesome BB-drive set-up", you mean a mid-drive unit? Now we're talking about something I want to buy!

Elaborate more on your mid-drive offering please!

Look'n good... keep on, keep'n on... Thudster...

[Thud]

You need to be very pro active when shopping motors at leaders. They have (what apear to be) some awsome sales form time to time....but they are not allways on top of inventory. I bought prolly the last 80-100's they had. but I had no problem getting re-funded for the back-order. The motor linked in adrian's thread is now back to $90.00

Hello deVries,
Just to be clear, "mid drive" typicly describe a hub motor not mounted in the hub....it can either drive the wheel directly or run through the bicycles main gearing. (what I refer to as the BB drive systems).

I have posted a couple pictures of a little reducion unit that powers my buddys kid hauler bicycle around with a 6374 turnigy & CCice100 controller. bike is starting is 3rd year of service & he still loves it,(kid is getting heavyer & it still pulls hime & her all over town) & from my experiance, this is my favorite "assist" to ride as a bicycle. It make you feel like superman. properly geared for the bike (road or mountain) it is pure enjoyment.

Most of the high power stuff I tend to gravitate too is really moped class stuff...& frankly the pedals are usualy in the way of progress.
thanks for the props, I am getting my old F.S. Marin out of mothballs to make a BBdrive set up with this soon. We'll see what motor confiuration works best for it.

[adrian_sm]

The motor linked in adrian's thread is now back to $90.00

Unfortunately the 6374-200kv never went on sale, but the 6364-230kv motors I linked too are still cheap, US$33 + shipping.

Here is the direct link: http://www.leaderhobby.com/product.asp?ID=9394001224158

I have posted a couple pictures of a little reducion unit that powers my buddys kid hauler bicycle around with a 6374 turnigy & CCice100 controller. bike is starting is 3rd year of service & he still loves it,(kid is getting heavyer & it still pulls hime & her all over town) & from my experiance, this is my favorite "assist" to ride as a bicycle. It make you feel like superman. properly geared for the bike (road or mountain) it is pure enjoyment.

Have you got a link? Would love to see it.

Oh and I love this reduction unit. Well done.

[deVries]

I have posted a couple pictures of a little reducion unit that powers my buddys kid hauler bicycle around with a 6374 turnigy & CCice100 controller.

This new drive system you have in this thread would also work well with the 6364 too, right? KV is 230.

Does the motor "ideally" have to have the two support bearings for the shaft or will just one side work fine with this drive? I think it's called the skirt bearing? Does your setup here really need the skirt bearing support too?

Also, is this the same drive here that is going to be used also for the Marin mid-drive through the BB crank gearing? Or, is that another design yet to come?

Thanks!

[Thud]

I stand corrected & thank you for the support.
Here is the bottom bracket drive mounted on a very lightweight Giant frame. it looks large in this photo, but thats a 6374 in there. Its running on 8cells.

the batteries & ellectronics are now mounted inside the frame also , this photo was the "Hurry up & lets try it out" configuration.
batteries & controller are too far apart. The finalize the design was tweeked to house all the reduction internaly except the chain to the crank of course, but have never revisited it. something allways comes up.

As far as a skirt bearing required....definatly not. they are needed for a friction drive to stablize the can & on a larger motor that is going to subject to jumping or substantial impact force. the skirt bearing came form the 3D aero guys. the gyroscopic force of a propeller & the airframe stressing it from all angles would let the can flex enough to have magnet strikes.....especialy on the long can style motors.

& yes this same unit as a BB drive. I am thinking a lower kv wind & a bit lower voltage & you have a resaonable assist to the human side of the bicycle. It won't be a braggerts 10kw set up....but thrugh the gears, it will do everything you want a bicycle to do. & the biggest plus is the ease of maintaining a 6cell set up over chaining a pack in series...then parallelling them up for capacity.

[adrian_sm]

& the biggest plus is the ease of maintaining a 6cell set up over chaining a pack in series...then parallelling them up for capacity.

+1. It does make life easy doesn't it.
- Easy to scale the battery. Run a single pack, or parallel as many as you like.
- easy to charge
- easy to balance using charger, and a one of these
- ESC can do LVC & charger can do HVC, so no BMS required if you don't want.

Now you have me thinking about a BB drive through the gears on my FS bike with this reduction unit. Damn you.

[Thud]

[adrian_sm]

So freewheeling cranks. Where? How much?

[farmkid4]

:evil:

So freewheeling cranks. Where? How much?

+1

[Thud]

I buy all my wide bottom brackets from these guy's. Its a tiny garage internet side buisness but I have talked to the owner & he is a complete motored bike enthusiest & looking at the ellectric side more every day. They will ship international.
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/pr ... qfgl3vlf24
& all the chainrings & goodies to bolt to the freewheel:
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/in ... qfgl3vlf24
same cranks as you get with a cyclone kit AFAIK.

After my experaince with these cranks, I will now recomend not using the White freewheel.(or the chepo dicta) Instead use a ACS cossfire & make the adjustments to the sprocket teeth (to fit the chainring bolt pattern) with a dremel tool.

why? the Dicta has a pr of weak pawles but with dual angular contact bearings it remains a fairly true set up...(till the pawles fail & you smash your nads on the top bar!)
The white industries unit is great under pedal power & with 3 pawles it is rock solid....the fault there is the single bearing suport when it is freewheeling.(under motor power & not pedaling) it gets very flopy very fast. does not insire confidence.

the Crossfire is a huge step up from the Dicta & still keeps the sprocket running true, has 3 pawles for secure pedaling & are reasonably priced. I haven't actually used the crossfire in this application yet....but I have nothing but confidence it is the solution.
Unless recumpence shows his full bearing supported freewheeling crank design....That would be the ultimate fix.

[Miles]

why? the Dicta has a pr of weak pawles but with dual angular contact bearings it remains a fairly true set up...(till the pawles fail & you smash your nads on the top bar!)
The white industries unit is great under pedal power & with 3 pawles it is rock solid....the fault there is the single bearing suport when it is freewheeling.(under motor power & not pedaling) it gets very flopy very fast. does not insire confidence.

the Crossfire is a huge step up from the Dicta & still keeps the sprocket running true, has 3 pawles for secure pedaling & are reasonably priced. I haven't actually used the crossfire in this application yet....but I have nothing but confidence it is the solution.
Unless recumpence shows his full bearing supported freewheeling crank design....That would be the ultimate fix.

See also: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=25153