Zero Motorcycles delivering 2012 models to customers now!

[liveforphysics]

I watch too much EVTV with Jack Rickard, such a talanted guy knows everything !! lol

So, I would like to believe youre being sarcastic...

[dkw12002]

Liveforphysics, I know this is early 2012, but I wonder what advancements are on the horizon for electric battery technology that Zero might use in 2013 models. Is there a different chemistry that might extend the range without making larger batteries? Any breakthroughs in more rapid charging, e-motor technology, etc. that Zero is looking at?

[Alan B]

If he told you, he'd have to kill you.

[Arlo1]

Liveforphysics, I know this is early 2012, but I wonder what advancements are on the horizon for electric battery technology that Zero might use in 2013 models. Is there a different chemistry that might extend the range without making larger batteries? Any breakthroughs in more rapid charging, e-motor technology, etc. that Zero is looking at?

If he posted future improvemts how the hell would zero sell current models??? /:)

[dkw12002]

They could start taking orders now like Brammo and wing it. They've been taking orders for years now it seems on the elusive Empulse. I think they should rename it Impulse. I'm a good customer, they can't kill me.

[Ykick]

Sorry if off topic but regarding the previous Zero model 2010-2011 battery pack - I understand it uses 4.2V/cell Moli's in 14S config. Would it be wrong and/or dangerous to attempt to re-power with 14S RC Lipo using the stock BMS? I also wonder what LVC threshold the older model Zero BMS employs?

[Doctorbass]

Sorry if off topic but regarding the previous Zero model 2010-2011 battery pack - I understand it uses 4.2V/cell Moli's in 14S config. Would it be wrong and/or dangerous to attempt to re-power with 14S RC Lipo using the stock BMS? I also wonder what LVC threshold the older model Zero BMS employs?

That is an interesting question. The 26700A emoli cells are rated for 4.2 to 2.5V I guess that since it's LiMn cells they are limited to 3.4 or 3.5V LVC.. leaving like 10-15% in the pack for the health.

What is nice with this 14s LiMn pack is that you can match in parallel it with a 16s LiFePo4 pack with his own BMS ( with protecting diode in serie) and they should have a pretty close voltage range except that the flat discharge curve of the LiFePo4 will only share current during the last 60% discharge since the 14s LiMn voltage should stay above the 16s lilfepo4 for the first 40% or so... I might do that on my DS 2011 as range extender pack.

Doc

[Ykick]

Sorry if off topic but regarding the previous Zero model 2010-2011 battery pack - I understand it uses 4.2V/cell Moli's in 14S config. Would it be wrong and/or dangerous to attempt to re-power with 14S RC Lipo using the stock BMS? I also wonder what LVC threshold the older model Zero BMS employs?

That is an interesting question. The 26700A emoli cells are rated for 4.2 to 2.5V I guess that since it's LiMn cells they are limited to 3.4 or 3.5V LVC.. leaving like 10-15% in the pack for the health.

What is nice with this 14s LiMn pack is that you can match in parallel it with a 16s LiFePo4 pack with his own BMS ( with protecting diode in serie) and they should have a pretty close voltage range except that the flat discharge curve of the LiFePo4 will only share current during the last 60% discharge since the 14s LiMn voltage should stay above the 16s lilfepo4 for the first 40% or so... I might do that on my DS 2011 as range extender pack.

Doc

In the event of completely dead emoli's I was thinking about reworking RC Lipo into an older Zero BMS at cell level? The stock Zero BMS taps parallel cell group 14S and assume handles balancing and cell level LVC? I would love to know what they used for cell LVC? If around 3.4-3.5v/cell repowering with RC Lipo could work with the stock BMS and charge system?

I guess we'll find out if/when a few of these older Zero packs start to die?

Good luck on your 2011 - I'm very jealous, LOL...

[edcastrovalley]

I might do that on my DS 2011 as range extender pack. Doc

Please let us know how it goes, Doc. 4.2 volt cells are just too convenient!

[Doctorbass]

No worrie guys

I should get it next week i hope.

I will review everything i can in the way that Zero can autorize me to post that... I must talk to Luke about that If the zero have some secret i will keep it secret as well until Luke give any autorizations.

[deVries]

Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:38 pm
No worrie guys

I should get it next week i hope.

I will review everything i can in the way that Zero can autorize me to post that... I must talk to Luke about that If the zero have some secret i will keep it secret as well until Luke give any autorizations.

Bump!

When is that review thread starting? Did you get your Zero Specs!

Does Luke post anywhere on ES about Zero & what he does there? I read somewhere he spec'd the new batteries from some Korean company? Are these batteries only for OEM & not resale to us?

[Jay64]

Some of you may know Terry Heshner, he just got his 2012 Zero S ZF9 on Monday.

Ok first ride this morning at 45-65 mph was 25.8 miles and took 3.13 kwh to fully recharge. So that's 121 watt hours per mile.

[Arlo1]

Fabio got a Zero as well.

[Alan B]

Today a Zero dealer brought three Zero electric motorcycles to my workplace. I gave one a spin at lunch hour. Quite Nice!

More later...

[Alan B]

It was a quick trial run on the steep winding roads at work (we are on a hillside), but the Zero 2012 dirt/street bike had a good feel and nice acceleration. It feels to me like the low end acceleration is muted, probably for safety, but it pulls stronger as it speeds up and climbed the hills effortlessly as it accelerated. Brakes felt competent and sure. Low speed throttle control was amazingly precise and had lots of range - you could easily ride the bike at below walking speed.

Nice job, Zero!

[Doctorbass]

Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:38 pm
No worrie guys

I should get it next week i hope.

I will review everything i can in the way that Zero can autorize me to post that... I must talk to Luke about that If the zero have some secret i will keep it secret as well until Luke give any autorizations.

Bump!

When is that review thread starting? Did you get your Zero Specs!

Does Luke post anywhere on ES about Zero & what he does there? I read somewhere he spec'd the new batteries from some Korean company? Are these batteries only for OEM & not resale to us?

Yessss!

I got it!!

A nice beautifull 2011 zero motorcycle!.

Still not tried it yet. you know me, as usual, i am modifing it before trying it

I added a balance plug to the 4.3kWh battery with turnigy 12 gauge wires and 15 andersons PP30 connectors.

This will allow me to watch the balance state of the battery on the celllog monitoring board i have and also to rebalance the low cell bank even if it happen.

The charger and BMS work to keep cells at 4.16V for the full charge. The BMS make a little HF sound all of the time and seem to keep battery balanced 24/24h

i'll start a thread about that soon.

Doc

[deVries]

Yessss!

I got it!!

A nice beautifull 2011 zero motorcycle!.

Still not tried it yet. you know me, as usual, i am modifing it before trying it

I added a balance plug to the 4.3kWh battery with turnigy 12 gauge wires and 15 andersons PP30 connectors.

This will allow me to watch the balance state of the battery on the celllog monitoring board i have and also to rebalance the low cell bank even if it happen.

The charger and BMS work to keep cells at 4.16V for the full charge. The BMS make a little HF sound all of the time and seem to keep battery balanced 24/24h

i'll start a thread about that soon.

Doc

Awesome! New "wheels" with new motor & new batts. Modify? Doc?

That's an interesting observation if the BMS is doing "active balancing" 24/7.

Was everything "stock" (standard equipment) before you modified anything? The exact model is?

Anyway, ... look forward to your review

[Doctorbass]

Yessss!

I got it!!

A nice beautifull 2011 zero motorcycle!.

Still not tried it yet. you know me, as usual, i am modifing it before trying it

I added a balance plug to the 4.3kWh battery with turnigy 12 gauge wires and 15 andersons PP30 connectors.

This will allow me to watch the balance state of the battery on the celllog monitoring board i have and also to rebalance the low cell bank even if it happen.

The charger and BMS work to keep cells at 4.16V for the full charge. The BMS make a little HF sound all of the time and seem to keep battery balanced 24/24h

i'll start a thread about that soon.

Doc

Hello,

Yes everything was stock.

it's a ZERO DS 2011 demo i bought. I have the oem charger an one quick charger that just add charge power to the first ( parallel connections). total charging power 2000W

Everry components will remain the same except that i will add a 16s lifepo4 A123 range extander pack on it ( will add 2kWh energy) for a total of 6.3kWh.
Here is some pictures of my Zero Ds battery while i was modifying it for adding extrenal balance connectors:


Awesome! New "wheels" with new motor & new batts. Modify? Doc?

That's an interesting observation if the BMS is doing "active balancing" 24/7.

Was everything "stock" (standard equipment) before you modified anything? The exact model is?

Anyway, ... look forward to your review

[Bison_69]

Hi Stephane (DoctorBass),

This cells project build is so interesting... could you give more details... like:

_ quantity of pouch cell you are using, the setup xSxP....

_ how you did your cells configuration inside this box...

_ what was the procedure you used to verify each cell and balanced them prior building this pack...

_ what is the final output of this pack V=? and Ah=?

_ what type of BMS and charger you are using...

_ what range do you expect on one charge with this nice emotorcycle and average speed...

_ And finally can we see some pictures of this wonder!.... I can't wait.

Thanks

[Alan B]

I put a more detailed review of my Zero test ride and comparisons to the Greyborg in my Greyborg thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34929&p=571809#p571809

[Doctorbass]

Hi Stephane (DoctorBass),

This cells project build is so interesting... could you give more details... like:

_ quantity of pouch cell you are using, the setup xSxP....

_ how you did your cells configuration inside this box...

_ what was the procedure you used to verify each cell and balanced them prior building this pack...

_ what is the final output of this pack V=? and Ah=?

_ what type of BMS and charger you are using...

_ what range do you expect on one charge with this nice emotorcycle and average speed...

_ And finally can we see some pictures of this wonder!.... I can't wait.

Thanks

_ quantity of pouch cell you are using, the setup xSxP....
14s24p

_ how you did your cells configuration inside this box...
It's zero manufacturing.. i bought it already assembled.. I only added balance connector and wiring

_ what was the procedure you used to verify each cell and balanced them prior building this pack...
See the answer above

_ what is the final output of this pack V=? and Ah=?
70Ah and 53.2v nom

_ what type of BMS and charger you are using...
The charger is the OEM Delta Q chrger that come with the Zero motorcycle and it is 18A output at 58.8V max and have the power factor corrector( PFC)

_ what range do you expect on one charge with this nice emotorcycle and average speed...

Around 25-30km on highway and up to 80km low speed comuting
_ And finally can we see some pictures of this wonder!.... I can't wait.

Not yet

Doc

[deVries]

it's a ZERO DS 2011 demo i bought.

I hope you got an ES Doctorbass *discount* on your demo too! You deserve it.

Btw, since we are waiting for your review, etc. can you tell us what is the battery manufacturer & chemistry & rating per cell of the Zero cells?

Do you know what manufacturer & chemistry & rating per cell is used for the 2012 Zero? The 2012 supposedly got spec'd with a Korean source, so it would be interesting to compare "cell specs" between both year models.

[Doctorbass]

it's a ZERO DS 2011 demo i bought.

I hope you got an ES Doctorbass *discount* on your demo too! You deserve it.

Btw, since we are waiting for your review, etc. can you tell us what is the battery manufacturer & chemistry & rating per cell of the Zero cells?

Do you know what manufacturer & chemistry & rating per cell is used for the 2012 Zero? The 2012 supposedly got spec'd with a Korean source, so it would be interesting to compare "cell specs" between both year models.

Yeah i got it for a great price and will also be proud to promote the zero products the most as possible!

From the begining of the zero and up to the 2011 model, these was using the Molicell IMR26700 cells ( nearly the same cylindrical format than the A123 2.3Ah)
These Molicells brand are LiMn chemistry of 3.8V nom and 2.9Ah and weight nearly 100g each.
14s24p

The new zero are using the EIG brand lithium polymer safe cells. and their format is pouch It is Luke that designed them with all his great talent and i also believe that this is that great contribution from him that really help pushing the new 2012 zero motorcycle performances to a level where they are now really competitive in the market!

There is 216 cells of the brand EIG and model C020 NMC
18s6p pack
3.65v 20Ah pouch cells

Total capacity 7.9 kWh nominal.

I saw the cells in the interior of these new 2012 zero battery in the iphone of the Canada sales manager. They are really compact pouches!!... the interior look like a big bank of many super big RC lipo pouch!!

Doc