Ezee battery charged, but no output

[Brundle-rat]

Hi, Everyone!

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to ebikes, but I do have some electronics experience.

It seems that there are a lot of smart, knowledgeable people here so I'm hoping somebody might be able to give me some guidance. I've searched the forums but didn't find a problem quite like the one I am having.

I just purchased a used Ezee Cadence. According to the former owner, the battery is about 10 months old. I tend to believe him.
I had the bike one day and only took it for a few short rides and the bike just died. It had seemed to be working normally and then, nothing!

I charged the battery, and the lights on the charger behaved normally. There is a red light and a yellow light that turned green after a few hours. I put the battery back on the bike, but there was no sign of life. When I returned the battery to the charger, the yellow light turned green almost immediately. I believe that indicates that the battery is charged. I checked the output terminals and there is no voltage present. I removed and checked the fuse in the battery and there is continuity.

The battery is in a sealed case that has stickers that say "Warranty void if open." I realize that the warranty wouldn't be honored anyway, but I wanted to get some advice before tearing into it blindly and making the situation worse.

Does anybody have any experience with these batteries or insight into the possible cause of the problem? I suspect some problem with the internal "Battery Management Circuit" that Ezee mentions in their literature. But I have not been able to locate a schematic or any photos of an open case.

I would greatly appreciate any guidance you can provide!

Thanks,

Jim

[dnmun]

do you have a voltmeter? do you have tools to open it and a camera to take pictures to post up here?

[voicecoils]

Does the battery slide in behind the seat? If yes, continue reading...

You'll need a multimeter.

Check voltage at the bottom terminals.
Check voltage at the side charge port (pin 1 is positive, pin 2 is negative, pin 3 is unused).

On a working battery, the voltages match.

Next, check the fuse that screws in the side of the case with a screwdriver. It is a cylindrical glass type in a spring loaded holder. Be careful not to lose the small parts holding it together. Check for continuity (resistance) with your multimeter. It should not be open circuit (blown or faulty).

Let us know what you find. If the problem's not there, you can check cell voltages inside the case with a bit of work.

Cheers!

[dogman]

One problem I've had, is an intermittent broken connection at the charger plug. The light turns green because the charger is disconnected. So that could be causing a partial charge. The voltmeter will help you know if that is happening, or if the battery itself is not taking a charge.

Charges way too fast often means a low capacity.

You may have to bite the bullet, and buy it a new battery, such as a pingbattery lifepo4, ezee battery, or some other type. If it can be fixed, here is the place that can guide you through it.

[rkosiorek]

Does the battery slide in behind the seat? If yes, continue reading...

You'll need a multimeter.

Check voltage at the bottom terminals.
Check voltage at the side charge port (pin 1 is positive, pin 2 is negative, pin 3 is unused).

On a working battery, the voltages match.

Next, check the fuse that screws in the side of the case with a screwdriver. It is a cylindrical glass type in a spring loaded holder. Be careful not to lose the small parts holding it together. Check for continuity (resistance) with your multimeter. It should not be open circuit (blown or faulty).

Let us know what you find. If the problem's not there, you can check cell voltages inside the case with a bit of work.

Cheers!

i know that a Noob would never, ever repeat the dumb mistake this "expert" made. I forgot to turn the Key and turn on the power before checking the voltages. then i noticed the keys lying on the bench top.... Sometimes i can feel so silly.

I have repaired a couple of these where that same key switch was broken. try ebikes.ca for a replacement. to check if it is the switch do the voltage checks as voicecoils suggests. if you get 42V at the charge port but not at the output connector, no matter which way the switch is it is either the switch or the internal fuse. to get at these you need to take the battery case apart. Ypedal has destructions on his site http://ypedal.com/ezee.htm. check the fuse and switch using the ohm meter function of your tester.

on another bike i found that the mating contacts at the bottom of the battery mount in the frame had lost some of their "spring" and were not making a good connection. i put a spacer/gasket made from some thin plastic sheet under the connector block to add a little tension. that was enough to fix the problem. i used a plastic file folder from the dollar store as a source for the plastic. i love re-purposing crap from the dollar stores.

If the battery was stored for many months without being charged it is possible that one of the internal cells has self-discharged to the point that it will not balance or charge and play nice with the other cells in the pack. the easiest way to tell is to charge the pack. measure the voltage immediately. put the pack on the bike turn on the power and measure the voltage again at the charger port. it should not have changed significantly. if the voltage has dropped by a couple of volts or more you have a bad cell.

occasionally a bad cell can be brought back by charging it individually using a single cell charger.

rick

[Ypedal]

forgot to turn the Key and turn on the power before checking the voltages.

been there.. done that....

[dogman]

Oh yeah. If the battery has any kind of switch on it, that could be the problem, just like a simple broken plug could be the problem.

Could be the worst though, one cell group is dead, so the bms shuts off fast.

[Brundle-rat]

Wow! I just got home from work and I see replies! Thanks, everyone!

I will try some of your suggestions and post the results.

Regards,

Jim

[Brundle-rat]

Does the battery slide in behind the seat? If yes, continue reading...

You'll need a multimeter.

Check voltage at the bottom terminals.
Check voltage at the side charge port (pin 1 is positive, pin 2 is negative, pin 3 is unused).

On a working battery, the voltages match.

Next, check the fuse that screws in the side of the case with a screwdriver. It is a cylindrical glass type in a spring loaded holder. Be careful not to lose the small parts holding it together. Check for continuity (resistance) with your multimeter. It should not be open circuit (blown or faulty).

Let us know what you find. If the problem's not there, you can check cell voltages inside the case with a bit of work.

Cheers!

i know that a Noob would never, ever repeat the dumb mistake this "expert" made. I forgot to turn the Key and turn on the power before checking the voltages. then i noticed the keys lying on the bench top.... Sometimes i can feel so silly.

I have repaired a couple of these where that same key switch was broken. try ebikes.ca for a replacement. to check if it is the switch do the voltage checks as voicecoils suggests. if you get 42V at the charge port but not at the output connector, no matter which way the switch is it is either the switch or the internal fuse. to get at these you need to take the battery case apart. Ypedal has destructions on his site http://ypedal.com/ezee.htm. check the fuse and switch using the ohm meter function of your tester.

on another bike i found that the mating contacts at the bottom of the battery mount in the frame had lost some of their "spring" and were not making a good connection. i put a spacer/gasket made from some thin plastic sheet under the connector block to add a little tension. that was enough to fix the problem. i used a plastic file folder from the dollar store as a source for the plastic. i love re-purposing crap from the dollar stores.



rick

False alarm! But I still have a problem!

Well, I checked the battery again with my multimeter and now it reads about 43.75 Volts at both the output terminals and at the charge port. (That seems too high, but before, it was 0 volts at the terminals. I had not checked the charge port. I thought it was a 36V battery.) I did find some debris and grease in the terminals, so perhaps I was not getting good contact with my probes. So maybe that's my dumb mistake!

But at least the battery seems to be working. That's the good news. However, there is still no power to the bike. I'll look for fuses and places to check for voltage on the bike itself. I will probably be back asking for more help in troubleshooting, but I'll search for information about the "new" problem first. Perhaps I need the dollar store plastic file folder solution that Rick devised.

Since the battery is likely OK, and a different problem exists, how should I handle this thread? I know this is the battery forum and I don't want to pollute it with a bunch of posts that should probably be in a different forum. Any suggestions?

Jim

[davidyerger]

Check the terminal bolts on the bottom, I have a Forza and although they were sealed with some silcone goo, there was enough corrosion cause problems.

Also check the battery box, there is one external fuse, sealing on that is imperfect, contacts may need contact cleaner as well. There is an internal fuse as well but it never gave me any trouble.

HTH

[dogman]

Up to 45v fully charged can be normal "36v", with 43v pretty typical. So we just eliminated the charger doesn't charge.

Progress. Once the battery works, the next single most common reason an ebike won't run is the plugs aren't making contact. sometimes a male pin is bent aside, other times either male of female contacts get backed out of the housing far enough to lose contact. So check all that, while seeing rather than looking. Including stuff like on off and brake shutoff switches of course.

[Brundle-rat]

Check the terminal bolts on the bottom, I have a Forza and although they were sealed with some silcone goo, there was enough corrosion cause problems.

Also check the battery box, there is one external fuse, sealing on that is imperfect, contacts may need contact cleaner as well. There is an internal fuse as well but it never gave me any trouble.

HTH

Up to 45v fully charged can be normal "36v", with 43v pretty typical. So we just eliminated the charger doesn't charge.

Progress. Once the battery works, the next single most common reason an ebike won't run is the plugs aren't making contact. sometimes a male pin is bent aside, other times either male of female contacts get backed out of the housing far enough to lose contact. So check all that, while seeing rather than looking. Including stuff like on off and brake shutoff switches of course.

Thanks, davidyerger and dogman! And thanks to voicecoils for the info about checking the voltages at the terminals and the charge port!

I found this pictorial guide about how to check the wiring harness: http://www.nycewheels.com/troubleshooti ... rness.html
It looks pretty straightforward, so I'll try to get to it today, but it may be tomorrow. I've got a few other, but less fun, priorities. I'll post the results when I have some.

Thanks again!

Jim

[medusa569]

I just got through with what sounds like the same problem...I have an Ezee battery pack as well and have used it about 6 months although I bought it about 2 years ago. I kept it charged for when I was able to ride. About a month ago it just stopped running when I tried to ride one day...and when i put meter to it it ready 40-41 volts ( 36 volt battery pack) and yet my bike didn't work. I just had some help from another member in my area and he found that when connected to the controller the juice fell from 40-41 volts down to 8-9! That clearly is not enough to run a bike. Although when I opened up the battery pack I didn't see any bulging or other malconditions clearly something is wrong. Try and put your meter to the back of the connector on the controller side and see what readings you get.

Wow! I just got home from work and I see replies! Thanks, everyone!

I will try some of your suggestions and post the results.

Regards,

Jim

[Brundle-rat]

I'VE GOT THE POWER! WOO-HOO!

...

I have repaired a couple of these where that same key switch was broken. try ebikes.ca for a replacement...

rick

Oh yeah. If the battery has any kind of switch on it, that could be the problem, just like a simple broken plug could be the problem. ...

Rick and Dogman, good call on the switch!

Actually, the switch itself is OK, but when I pulled the rubber boot off it, I found that one of the solder joints had come loose. It took me two hours to locate my soldering iron, so I re-soldered the joint and got the motor to run, but I ran out of daylight and didn't get everything remounted so I wasn't able to test ride it. I'll do that tomorrow.

Anyway, thanks everyone for all of the suggestions. You guys are great!

Medusa569, your problem sounds a bit different from mine. Good luck with it!

Jim

[kevo]

Brundle-rat/Jim wrote: I'VE GOT THE POWER! WOO-HOO!

Great to see a repair accomplished - good job

[rkosiorek]

it is usually something simple.

happy that you'll be riding again.

rick

[voicecoils]

Nice work, good to hear it was something simple.

Riding on the road can be hard on electrical connections.

[voicecoils]

I just got through with what sounds like the same problem...I have an Ezee battery pack as well and have used it about 6 months although I bought it about 2 years ago. I kept it charged for when I was able to ride. About a month ago it just stopped running when I tried to ride one day...and when i put meter to it it ready 40-41 volts ( 36 volt battery pack) and yet my bike didn't work. I just had some help from another member in my area and he found that when connected to the controller the juice fell from 40-41 volts down to 8-9! That clearly is not enough to run a bike. Although when I opened up the battery pack I didn't see any bulging or other malconditions clearly something is wrong. Try and put your meter to the back of the connector on the controller side and see what readings you get.

If the voltage falls rapidly towards 0v, it's likely the BMS has cut power to the output terminals.

You may have a bad cell or faulty BMS unit, but you'll need to open the case to check connections, internal fuses and cell voltages. What sort of eZee pack do you have? Some go in a rear rack with Anderson connectors, others slide vertically behind the seat and there's a version that goes in a side pannier bag with Anderson connectors.

[medusa569]

I have opened the case and I see the fuse and perhaps the bms....Other than a 36 volts pack with the silver plastic case I mount mine on the back rack as the case it comes in has side mount hook like lanniers. I don't like the weight on one side so I strap it center to my rack. It did have Anderson's on it but Ii changed them to bullets.

eZee battery 36 volt

If the voltage falls rapidly towards 0v, it's likely the BMS has cut power to the output terminals.

You may have a bad cell or faulty BMS unit, but you'll need to open the case to check connections, internal fuses and cell voltages. What sort of eZee pack do you have? Some go in a rear rack with Anderson connectors, others slide vertically behind the seat and there's a version that goes in a side pannier bag with Anderson connectors.[/quote]

[kevo]

I have an older Ezee Torq (lightweight 250w model) that required battery replacements as well. Curious if other ES members have compared the various older Ezee geared hubs to the newer ones.

Can't decide if Justin's 400w kit is worth it for upgrading. There are lots of steep hills in Bay Area. Brundle-Rat, YPedal or others: have you compared Ezee motors of different watt ratings

[medusa569]

I don't have an eZee motor ..just the battery. I have nine continent front hub motor..500W..nice ride but really not powerful on the inclines. I have to pedal to help it along....straight aways are great.

medusa

Can't decide if Justin's 400w kit is worth it for upgrading. There are lots of steep hills in Bay Area. Medusa, Brundle-Rat, YPedal or others: have you compared Ezee motors of different watt ratings

[kevo]

OK Medusa, will edit. DD are nice too

[kevo]

Medusa wrote: [Nine Continent 9C} not powerful on the inclines.

Have you checked out Methods various winds for the 9C?

[999zip999]

Maybe Ilia at ebikessf.com open his store front in S.F. yet. Go for a ride.

[Brundle-rat]

Thanks, Kevo!

Well I "buttoned it up" but found that it didn't run. The problem was slightly different this time -- the light near the key switch flashed just once. I tried jiggling the key and found that I could get the green "OK" light to come on, but it quickly went off with a little more jiggling. I checked my solder joint and it was still OK, but I found that the point where the ground wire was connected was a bit loose. Sure enough, I could cause the green light to go on and off by jiggling that wire. I heated the joint and let a bit of solder flow in and everything tightened up and works OK now. I took it for a 15-minute test ride with no problems.

I still may buy another keyed switch "just in case".

Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions, everyone!