Best kit thus far?

[grizmoblust]

Greetings,

I'm plan on selling my car due to engine problems and expensive insurance. I would like invest on a ebike. Although, I have lack knowledge on electric field and I have short time learning due to work I have. After 4 months of researching, I have come to a point where I just don't know what to get. So I have come to you, pro ebikers. I do have time to build on my own so I will buy a kit. I have 29 inch mountain bike. I weight 160 pounds. I live in a very hilly area, around 7-15 percent hills are average. We get about 10-20 snow days per year. My work commute is about 8 miles from where I live. I do some additional driving around town. Total about 20-25 miles per day. What are the best kits out there that can do all above?

Best Regards,
Grizmoblust

[MikeFairbanks]

Mountain Bike is necessary (if you are doing hills and snow).

eBikeKit.com has a perfect kit that's easy to install and comes with everything you need. Assembled in the USA, and Jason (the owner) is very friendly, helpful, and responds the same day to emails.

Batteries are the tricky part. If you get a Ping Battery (pingbattery.com) you'll have it quickly and it will plug right into the EbikeKit.com system. For your situation get a 36 or 48-volt battery that is 15ah. It's all online at Pingbattery.

There's also Cellman (a member on this site). His website is http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/c2_p1.html

He'll sell you a great battery too.


EBikeKit.com only has sealed lead acid batteries. they are really heavy and no fun to carry around on a bike (although I use one for my four-mile commute...works fine, but is heavy and isn't as high-performing or long-lasting as the previously mentioned batteries).


Avoid the unknown stuff on Ebay until you really know what you want.


If you want easy, EbikeKit.com, or Ebike.ca will set you straight. Super, duper easy with those two companies.

[MadRhino]

I suggest that you change your bike first, a 29er will make a poor climber of any motor.
26 is the max, and even then it pulls a lot of Amps to climb. It is justified if you ride off road, for smaller wheels don't make a good handling in the rough. If you plan to ride the road to commute, a smaller wheel is the trick to make a good climber.

Many here have built very good commuters for hilly areas, using 24, even 20 in wheels. The idea is that a smaller wheel is gearing down the motor, giving it a chance to cool and last.

As for recommendations for motor, controller and batteries... It would be good to know your target performance.

[neptronix]

If you are replacing a car with an eBike, you probably want the most bone-dead reliable thing you can find. Adding hills into the equation requires a motor with good power handling. 29" wheels requires a high torque motor.

For torque and reliability, you want a big direct drive motor. The magic pie comes to mind first. It is slow on 36v, so you will need to do 48v or above.

There are more powerful motors out there, but they are rather large, and more expensive. My next choice would be the Crystalyte HT.

Both mentioned motors are 16lbs. Anything bigger than that gets rather heavy.

You're going to need a big battery though. 48v20AH is what i would recommend for a battery. Ping batteries are great, the most reliable thing i can think of.

http://pingbattery.com/

http://www.goldenmotor.ca/

[grizmoblust]

Well I can swap my bike to 24-26 inch. I thought 29 inch would be fantastic since I don't have suspension on my bike. It'll be hassle for winter months if I do have one.

[MadRhino]

Suspension may be a hassle, but a must if you plan to ride fast.

Fat tires are good to a certain level of performance with a hard tail bike

[motomech]

You need to consider how fast you want to go, then everything is based on that, the hills and range .
With only 8 miles each way, speed to keep the elapsed time reasonable is not too important. The difference between an avg. of say, 25 mph and 30 plus would only be a few minutes.
Often, it's the route that dictates the speed. Many commuters here have a section where it's unavoidable to not mix it up with traffic, so they need speed to be safer.
If you are lucky enough to have bike lanes/paths, you can make due at 25 mph and focus your build to tackle the hills.
Speed takes $
Hill climbing takes $
Both takes $$$
And then there is pedaling. It's not too hard to set up your gearing to pedal along at 25 mph, but doing so at 30 requires special large chain rings and complicates the build. At around 35 mph, pedaling is more of a joke for most riders.
Tell us about that 17% grade, can you avoid it?

[el_walto]

You will find many different opinions here.

If you are mostly trying to get up steep hills what you want is s smaller wheel, 26" or maybe even smaller

You may want to look into a geared hub motor instead of a direct drive. Most of them have a 5:1 gear ratio, which generally makes them more efficient at hills.

You will most likely also want maxxis hookworm tires on your unsuspended bike.

Check out http://www.emissions-free.com
Look at the 1000W MAC kit
52V 11.5Ah A123 Battery
Shipping costs a bunch on these items as they are heavy and going a long distance.

[grizmoblust]

You need to consider how fast you want to go, then everything is based on that, the hills and range .
With only 8 miles each way, speed to keep the elapsed time reasonable is not too important. The difference between an avg. of say, 25 mph and 30 plus would only be a few minutes.
Often, it's the route that dictates the speed. Many commuters here have a section where it's unavoidable to not mix it up with traffic, so they need speed to be safer.
If you are lucky enough to have bike lanes/paths, you can make due at 25 mph and focus your build to tackle the hills.
Speed takes $
Hill climbing takes $
Both takes $$$
And then there is pedaling. It's not too hard to set up your gearing to pedal along at 25 mph, but doing so at 30 requires special large chain rings and complicates the build. At around 35 mph, pedaling is more of a joke for most riders.
Tell us about that 17% grade, can you avoid it?

The biggest one I know is 12 percent grade and it's the only access to other locations. Often, I don't go to those locations but when I do, it's a bitch. There are few that are about 10 percent, those I cannot avoid.
There are bike paths almost everywhere since this is a bike county. So, 25mph is perfectly acceptable.

[wesnewell]

Ask 10 people and you'll probably get 10 different answers. So here's my option. Get a cheap 26" bike with steel dropouts and an open triangle for the battery pack. Then get this kit.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rea ... 0406595360
That's the easy part. At only 160lbs, it'll do the hills with ease.
Battery options are many, but to keep it simple, start with 15ah of 12s lipo from HK. That should be enough fro 25miles at 20mph. And you'll need a way to charge and balance the pack. Other than a few bullet connectors, that's all you need to get started.
Charging can be accomplished safely in a multitude of ways. Most would use a balance charger, but you can charge the pack with the cheap sla charger that comes with the motor kit as long as you don't leave it on too long, as it will over charge them if not disconnected at full charge. Most versatile setup would probably be a Hyperion 1420i, but you could get by with any 6s charger, a bulk charger and separate balancers, or other methods.
If you're opposed to lipo, a 15ah lifepo4 pack would also work. SLA is not an option imo.
I'd also get some decent big tires.

[motomech]

Your next decision, is geared motor or direct drive, they both have there advantages and dis-advantages.
One criteria for some people is looks. Some don't care, personaly, I like the smaller size of the geared and a lot of air space in the wheels.
Smaller is stealther, which I like, but most folks don't really notice a big DD even.

I think you need to take the time to do some reading now. Use the search and search within a search. Some think Google is better.
the search here doesn't work with less than 4 letters, so for example, google Geared vs. DD and read the Endless Sphere response.

[dogman]

Skimming the responses I have yet to see a recomendation for a kit that is likely to be capable of your above 10% grade hills. Perhaps the pie can do it, but I'm not sure. Cellman sells a good hill motor, but it wasn't specificly mentioned. You'll need more power than the tiny gearmotors for those hills, and CM's direct drive motor is not the best winding for hills.

Simplify your life by getting a 26" bike, or send whatever you get to Holmes Hobby, to get it a quality lacing to 29"
For those hills, actually 20" would work best. Ever considered a tadpole trike?

We know the Mac 12t motor kit can do it. Or the 10t may be good enough, if 12% is really the max grade. Get it here. http://www.emissions-free.com/ Get your battery from Cellman in any case, 48v triangle type. 11 ah is enough if you can charge at work. If not,then the 20 ah pouch pack CM makes is good. Ask about it when you talk to CM.

The other motor I know from personal experience will climb your hills no problem is a slower winding 9 continent. Get it here. http://www.methtek.com/2011/11/12/2810-26-rear-37/ You can get it in a reliable kit, that link just shows the specific motor I'm talking about.

This motor is very slow, so you'd only have 20 mph at 48v. Many who have bought this motor are running it at 72v, and are very happy.

Riding just 8miles, you don't have to have such high speed. But your reliability issue is going to be covered a lot better by using a slower motor, like the 12t , or 10t mac or the 2810 9c. These slower motors will tolerate crawling up the steep hills better, and won't melt down on 15% near as likely as a typical bike kits motor will.

Grin cyclery sells a 2808 winding 9 continent motor, that I would definitely recomend if your hills were 10% grade max. Length of the hills matters too, if it's just 15% for a few yards, just jump on the pedals hard to get up it.

The other approach, would be to take a typical winding, put it into 20" rim, heave power at it, and climb the hill very fast. Works great, but if you care about it, the bike is illegally fast on road in every US state using the 5 hp approach.

Where are you at anyway? what continent? I've been mentioning some vendors based in north america, Cellman is in china.

[motomech]

In the Ebike CA sim.,
BMC Torq[Mac 10T]
25A controller
52V Ping

We get,

Top speed 25 mph
15% grade 12 mph
Overheat in 10 min.

Since a car is expensive for him right now, I'll assume he is young and fit, so pedaling could add a 2 to each of those results,

Top speed 27 mph
15% grade 14 mph
Overheat in 12 min.

Looks good to me,

Mac 10T,
standard controller,
Big Ping.

[dogman]

I agree, except that pedaling hard, you could add a lot more than 2 to that time to overheat.

I'm positive you won't overheat climbing a 15% grade in less than one mile, if you are pumping briskly to help the motor.

Sounds like what he really has to deal with is mostly 10% and some 12%. Keep it short, any you'll be ok on the crazy steep. Pedaling the bike enough to help the motor maintain a 15 mph minimum speed, you could climb 10 miles of 10% grade with no problems.

[zombiess]

As mentioned previously, the smaller the wheel, the better for any hub motor since you lose less torque to the ground. If your terrain is rough 24" wheels are a decent way to go. 20" setups are great on smooth roads, but can be tricky to setup for enough ground clearance and can cost more money to setup, especially if you want to use disc brakes. If you are a shorter I built a really fun 20" kids full suspension mountain bike I rode for a while before modding it into the monster it is now.

A 29" setup will not climb well at all unless you build a chain drive setup which is difficult to do for most people. How long are these hills you need to climb?

[motomech]

Yes, I modeled it with a MTB w/ 26" wheels.
His best bet to start IMO, is to buy a cheap steel 21-speed model. Mongoose, Schwinn, etc, a la Dogman style.
Above bike,
medium Ping
500 to ? watt geared or DD rear mounted motor is, I guess, what you could say it is the UBE[universal beginer's ebike],
Suitable for the vast majority of first-timers.

Just went w/ the Geared motor and larger battery for the OP because of the hills.

[chilledoutuk]

OK how about a 9c 5x12 in a 20inch wheel on 22s lipo with controller limited to 25amps.

I think that would make a good attempt at 15% grade hill

[grizmoblust]

Actually, most of the hills are more 6-8% grade but it's a long drag hills.

Like I said, I can lower my wheel size down to 24s or 20s if needed. I didn't realize that the size of the wheel was a big factor to RPM. I was reading the other thread about that. In addition, there is a lot of problems with the gear system. I tend to stay away from motors that have issues of shifting gears and such. DD is the best bet here. 1000w mac, and 46v15ah should do it?

[dogman]

Griz, I think by now we've confused you with a lot of new jargon and abbreviations.

6-8% grade is quite easy for 26" wheel bikes with a typical 500-1000w kit when run on a 48v battery. As I said earlier, if you pedal briskly, and keep the bike moving at 15 mph, the typical motor kit can do miles of 10% grade with no problems.

15% grade for very long will overheat a motor, but if you have only short sections that steep, say just a few hundred feet long, you can pedal hard, and get up them ok.

If you have longer, really steep stuff to get up, or you will go up and down steep stuff over and over like some dirt trails do, then you will need the best motor for hills. But if you have 8% hills to climb, an ordinary 500-1000w motor kit that runs 25-30 mph when run at 48v will be fine.

Those best motors for hills, in my opinion, are the slower windings, whether they are direct drive motors, or motors with planetary gear reduction inside. They are slower in top speed, but climb hills with less tendency to overheat. 20 mph fast enough for me.

9 continent and crystalyte are direct drive motors. Mac and BMC are gearmotors. Neither do any shifting, but the gearmotors have an internal freewheel that can break. DD motors have no breakable internal parts, but have the same breakable electronic parts inside as a gearmotor.

[dnmun]

you should fix your car first. what kinda problems? cars are usually easy to fix. parts available cheap too. not like a $1000-$1500 investment in a realistic ebike.

after you do that then consider using the ebike as your primary transport and keep the car for hauling big stuff or traveling.

also the car will be useful to haul the ebike home when it breaks down.

[grizmoblust]

you should fix your car first. what kinda problems? cars are usually easy to fix. parts available cheap too. not like a $1000-$1500 investment in a realistic ebike.

after you do that then consider using the ebike as your primary transport and keep the car for hauling big stuff or traveling.

also the car will be useful to haul the ebike home when it breaks down.

The problem is that I cannot afford insurance and gas this time around. Inflation is going hit hard sometime end of this summer or so. Everything in the car is starting to break down. Electrical wires not responding in cold condition. Breaks are becoming bad. Needs a new head casket. Tires are starting to worn out. Power steering is leaking. And some other minor issues.

I have public transportation if I need go somewhere. On a plus side, I can borrow my friend's truck if I need haul big stuff or heavy stuff if I need too.

[dnmun]

that's too bad. a head gasket for 4 cylinder is about $20 here. if the head gasket has already blown out, make sure you blow all the water outa the sleeves if you leave the car sitting. take the plugs out and crank it over after draining the radiator so the water will be thrown out of the cylinders. leave the plugs out so the air can get into the sleeves and dry it out, and turn it over occasionally and squirt some oil in through the plug holes to coat the sleeves. otherwise the motor will rust inside and you will never get it going. brakes are trivial, head gasket is harder, but not impossible.

all easier imo than working on an ebike. i never ride the bus. never.

[grizmoblust]

I just bought head casket two years ago. Now there is something wrong with that.

Yeah, it's easier to fix cars since we got 100+ years of knowledge on cars itself. Compare to electrical bikes about ~20 years? We're still on limited knowledge on e-bikes thus it's harder to maintain and work on. I still want to contribute to ebike community and improve for better. But for now, I need something to commute.

[dnmun]

ok, just trying to motivate you to keep it alive. allowing the water to remain in the sleeve is what i was trying to warn you about. i lost a little fiat convertible once that way. too much to keep up with and it got water in the motor over the winter sitting outside. but i had other cars then too.

[parajared]

ebike-kit.com 500w or MAC geared 750w motor FTW.