I need help finding a more powerful e-kit.

[Ed J]

Hi Everyone,

I'm interested in finding out where I can purchase a 60 or
a 72 volt 12 inch hub motor e-kit to fit a T12 electric Trikke.
I need more power to climb hills and want 24 MPH on the flats.



All help will be appreciated.
Ed J

[StudEbiker]

The only thing I can think of is putting a tire directly onto a hub motor.... no wheel. It would have to be a solid tire and would need some "creative" thinking for sure. Even if you solve that problem though, you are going to need crazy voltage to get 24 mph.

You might also try thinking of ways to put larger wheels on the trike too.

[amberwolf]

Golden motor makes some motors including a Magic Pie that basically have the rim on the motor's outer circumference.

[Lock]

Hi Ed.

If I may re-state your situation:

I need more power to climb hills and want 24 MPH on the flats.

24mph on the flats is a "no brainer" BUT what speeds are we talking about on the "hills" (what angle of slope and for how long and at what speed and at what weight, rider(s) +bike +cargo)

Beyond POWER to "giddy-up-and-go" EVerwhere, ya need to acknowledge needed ENERGY-storage (the amount of stored onboard energy - usually expressed as "Wh" - to get you and yours the whole distance between plug ins, in style and fully entertaining at the same time...)

Lock

[Ed J]

Hi Ed.

If I may re-state your situation:

I need more power to climb hills and want 24 MPH on the flats.

24mph on the flats is a "no brainer" BUT what speeds are we talking about on the "hills" (what angle of slope and for how long and at what speed and at what weight, rider(s) +bike +cargo)

Beyond POWER to "giddy-up-and-go" EVerwhere, ya need to acknowledge needed ENERGY-storage (the amount of stored onboard energy - usually expressed as "Wh" - to get you and yours the whole distance between plug ins, in style and fully entertaining at the same time...)

Lock

Hi Lock,

The Trikke and I combined weigh about 300 lbs, and
the hills vary from about 2° to as much as 9° in some spots.
The hills usually are only about 2 city blocks long, but some 4 or 5.

What do you suggest?
Ed J

[dogman]

Less steep hills.

Finding something that actually fits that thing is going to be harder than normal. It's going to take you quite an internet search. But supposing somebody here does know where to find something, where are you?

It could take some time, but perhaps Justin at Grin Cyclery could get something out of china for you if he's seen something like that at one of his suppliers.

Your best bet might be something pretty do it yourself. For instance, a Mac planetary gearmotor, your exisitng cast spoke rim, and some kind of machined adapter ring that allows the hub to bolt to your rim.

Or, alternatively, fabricate a frame that is similar, but uses a 20" wheel.

[Ed J]

Golden motor makes some motors including a Magic Pie that basically have the rim on the motor's outer circumference.

Hi amberwolf,

Thanks, I know very little about electronics.
My brother helped me assemble the model I currently have.
It is on a "steel" frame and a size smaller than the one in the picture.

Trikke doesn't sell e-kits for the larger aluminum T12 any longer,
the one pictured has a 36Volt e-kit which they no longer offer for the T12.

So, I will be needing the complete (60 or 72 volt) e-kit with throttle assembly.

Ed J

[neptronix]

Golden motor makes some motors including a Magic Pie that basically have the rim on the motor's outer circumference.

Too slow of a wind to move fast.
In a 20" wheel, i get 27mph on 72v. Now imagine how slow 72v is on a 12" wheel


Ed J, bigger hubmotors are going to be a problem for you, because of the diameter of the wheels you have.
You however, are in an ideal situation to run various chain drive motors that are very powerful.

BMC and MAC make some motors that could work quite well for you.

http://www.thesuperkids.com/15wabmcbrmos.html

They produce very high speed on low voltage, so you will need to feed them lots of amps on 36 or 48v.

Your wheel will be spinning at 670RPM at 24mph. That motor creates 3800rpm on 36v.

If you can do a 4:1 ratio with sprockets, you can get 950RPM at the wheel, which would make approximately 30-35mph.

You would need an 11T sprocket to 44T sprocket tho..

[Ed J]

Hi neptronix,

Does a brushless hub motor exist with eternal gearing that would fit inside a 12" wheel assembly?
If not what would be my options be: here is the list (in order) of my priorities...

First priority: climbing hills
Second priority: 24 MPH
Third priority: Price

(This image is taken form the link you gave me)




Ed J

[neptronix]

I really don't think there is. Your wheel is too small to fit any real power into it. If you could get a hub motor powerful enough for your application, it would be too difficult to spoke it up to a 12" wheel ( bad angles ). I also don't know what your dropout width is.. for most hub motors, they are designed for 135mm in the rear, 100mm in the front.

If you had 16" wheels, this would be another story.

So the best option is chain drive. You have a chance to take advantage of motors that have stupidly high RPMs that won't work in regular bicycle tires due to their size.

[neptronix]

I just got off the phone with thesuperkids.
That BMC motor is only 7 pounds... nice!!

http://www.cloudkartparts.com/product-p/mo-120-58.htm

Here is another option for you. It is brushed, but it outputs a more suitable RPM at 24v. You will need a brushed controller, and it will be loud, but it won't require such an insane gear reduction.

2600 / 4 ( 11t to 42T ) = 24.223 mph according to this calculator:

http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/rc_drive/rc_drive_calculator.asp

But i recommend running a 44T for about 23mph. This will slow down your top speed but give you a bit more torque.

A 1000w-1500w capable motor would be much better. I believe this company makes a 1000w version of this, i just can't find it.

[dogman]

Chain driving the front wheel would be.... interesting.

Could we possibly interest you in a badass 20" wheel bmx bike? That we can get you.

[Ed J]

Hi Everyone,

I don't know what the specks mean.
What about something like this?
What can this one do?

http://www.czbrushlessmotors.com/250w-1 ... acddf004e4




Ed J

[Ed J]

This might be the same motor? (Link)
Explain what this one ill do?

some data:
Stator diameter: 104.75mm
stator thickness: 41.5mm
lamination thickness: 0.5mm
slot count: 27
Magnet count: 30
magnet wire: 5x 24awg (i think, not 100% sure)
number of turns: ?











Ed

[Ed J]

What about this one?

http://www.china-electric-scooters.com/ ... 53536.html



The 12inch hub motor is our new designed hub motor,different from previous 12inch motor. We developed the wheel and inside parts,make it better working and higher quality. And now it is very popular in Ansi and Europ market.
This kind of hub motor is specially designed for big Electric scooter with high torque and high speed. The max rated power we designed can be 1.5kw--- 5kw,which will make your scooter run a max speed about 100km/h.
Main Specification for this motor as bellows,
Item: 12inch Brushless Hub Motor
Model NO.: HS121500-5000
Motor Type:Brushless Hub Motor
Rated Voltage: 48V/60V/72V
Rated Power: 1500W-5000W(For your choice)
No-Load speed:600rpm-1300rpm
Max efficiency:85%
Max torque:200N.M
Wheel: 12inch Aluminum wheel
Climbing ability: ≥25o
Gross Weight:17.5KG
Brake Type:DISC Brake.

Ed

[parabellum]

I would take last one! It is little heavy, will probably not fit you dropout but who cares, you can climb vertical wall after all.

[Ed J]

I would take last one! It is little heavy, will probably not fit your dropout but who cares, you can climb a vertical wall after all.

HA Ha ha ha ha !!!

If these people don't carry the associated throttle assembly,
where would I get the motorcycle type twist throttle? And
also the battery that I will obviously need to power it.

Ed J

[parabellum]

If these people don't carry the associated throttle assembly,
where would I get the motorcycle type twist throttle? And
also the battery that I will obviously need to power it.

To power this beast you will need suitable controller first. Who sells controllers, sells throttles. Lyen for example.
For battery I would choose RC LiPo for those power levels or A123 at least, if you do not want to carry trailer with 200lbs of batteries in it. It looks like this motor can swallow over 10KW for extended periods (if 5KW is written on it). I do not think your trike can handle such a beast and then again not as front wheel.

[el_walto]

I wonder if you could run 3 tiny hub motors on that thing, probably be hard to find ones with the right spacing and room for those discs.

[Ed J]

If these people don't carry the associated throttle assembly,
where would I get the motorcycle type twist throttle? And
also the battery that I will obviously need to power it.

To power this beast you will need suitable controller first. Who sells controllers, sells throttles. Lyen for example.
For battery I would choose RC LiPo for those power levels or A123 at least, if you do not want to carry trailer with 200lbs of batteries in it. It looks like this motor can swallow over 10KW for extended periods (if 5KW is written on it). I do not think your trike can handle such a beast and then again not as front wheel.

Hi Parabellum,

I only like to ride for about 20 minutes at a time,
but sometimes as long as 45 minutes. What
battery would you recommend for this?

Ed J

[Ed J]

If these people don't carry the associated throttle assembly,
where would I get the motorcycle type twist throttle? And
also the battery that I will obviously need to power it.

To power this beast you will need suitable controller first. Who sells controllers, sells throttles. Lyen for example.
For battery I would choose RC LiPo for those power levels or A123 at least, if you do not want to carry trailer with 200lbs of batteries in it. It looks like this motor can swallow over 10KW for extended periods (if 5KW is written on it). I do not think your trike can handle such a beast and then again not as front wheel.

Hi Parabellum,

I only like to ride for about 20 minutes at a time,
but sometimes as long as 45 minutes. What
battery would you recommend for this?

Ed J

Hi Parabellum,

I could probably mount two batteries: one under each leg extension.



Ed J

[parabellum]

You definitively need something lite, since your "leg extensions" are movable parts. I would not install anything heavy on those extensions, it will 1 affect maneuverability and 2 put a lot of stress on the moving link. What is in the bag on the steering column?
If your commute is 20 min. then your battery should be capable of 5C at least to not carry died weight with you. To calculate the capacity we need at least distance you will cover in 1 of your commutes.
Anyway, battery chemistrys I can think about are:
RC LiPo (very lite and powerful but unforgiving) Easy modular plug interconnection but manual balancing and care required
LiMn 18650 konions, those with higher discharge rate (look makita tool packs) Little PITA because you need to assemble packs yourself (soldering skills required)
A123 cylindrical or prismatic (cylindrical if you go HV and prismatic if you go Low Voltage to save weight) Those can be purchased ready to go from Cellman.

[Ed J]

Hi Parabellum,

A lead acid gel battery is what's in the bag.
I would like to go with this hub motor (pictured below).

I don't need to go any farther than 20 miles.
And yes, the weight of the batteries is an issue.

The frame weighs 38LBS
The motor (pictured below) weighs 38LBS
And I weigh 250LBS; 76+250=326LBS without the batteries.

What type of light weight batteries (TWO) would
be able to be mounted under the leg extensions.

Or do you think it would be better to put only one on the steering column?

Or how about THREE instead, one on the steering column, and two under the leg extensions? (for better balance and a lower center of gravity)

Ed J

What about this one?

http://www.china-electric-scooters.com/ ... 53536.html



The 12inch hub motor is our new designed hub motor,different from previous 12inch motor. We developed the wheel and inside parts,make it better working and higher quality. And now it is very popular in Ansi and Europ market.
This kind of hub motor is specially designed for big Electric scooter with high torque and high speed. The max rated power we designed can be 1.5kw--- 5kw,which will make your scooter run a max speed about 100km/h.
Main Specification for this motor as bellows,
Item: 12inch Brushless Hub Motor
Model NO.: HS121500-5000
Motor Type:Brushless Hub Motor
Rated Voltage: 48V/60V/72V
Rated Power: 1500W-5000W(For your choice)
No-Load speed:600rpm-1300rpm
Max efficiency:85%
Max torque:200N.M
Wheel: 12inch Aluminum wheel
Climbing ability: ≥25o
Gross Weight:17.5KG
Brake Type:DISC Brake.

Ed

[parabellum]

Man, this motor is serious overkill, but anyway, when you realize it you can install it in some serious bad ass bike or scooter.
I would try to put all possible weight over front wheel, it will compromise handling but increase traction.
To be more flexible and be able to split the pack if handling is not what you expect, as well good C rate if in the future you want to run this beast in rear of larger chassis, I would use RC LiPo.
Again.
1) They are lite
2) They are powerful
3) They need baby care!!! (If you do something wrong it can have disastrous consequences)
4) and you need some serious preparation, search and read as much as you can about RC LiPo here on ES.
Here is what I like to use. Have over 60 of this packs purchased and no complains. They are cheap and already protected.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _pack.html
What controller will you use?

[Ed J]

Hi Parabellum, Is that the charger?

How powerful of a motor do I need then?
Currently I have a 36 volt hub motor
on a smaller frame (T78 deluxe).

I need some "serious" help on the hills.
I would like to top out at 24-30 MPH
and get about 20 miles of travel.
So my goal is to modify a T12

Can you help me find a more suitable motor then;
How fast do you think the pictured motor will go?

Do you think if I get that motor, I should put one
battery on the searing column like the one pictured?
(The one in the picture has a 36 volt hub motor as well.)



Ed