5404/5403 The good The bad The ugly

[Evoforce]

Just thought it would be nice to start a thread on all the things involved with the 5404/5403. Issues of good and bad or trial and error and what fixes or work arounds we have found to use.

[voicecoils]

Regarding fitting to your dropouts, here's my tips so far:

Dump the outer plastic wire guide. Using 2 or 3 c washers from ebikes.ca, you can easily create a safe space for your axle wiring to exit the recent group buy motors with 135mm dropout widths on the axle shoulders.



2 installed:



You may also need some disk spacers to acheive correct disk alignment with the calliper:



These are both issues with various hubmotors, but the width of the X54xx makes aligning everything more challenging.

Oh, and forget about a multi speed freewheel at the back!

[itchynackers]

Ya, I don't see any way I can get my 5404 with 3 speed to fit a 135mm dropout (even though this is what was implied when buying). I have the c-washers. I have the disk shims. I just don't have a 150mm dropout bike to put it on. I think Doc eluded to this: you could shave down the stator lip a bit so that the covers are closer together. If you look at his pictures of lowracers motor, the covers fit much closer to the spoke holes. I'll just have to wait and see what transpires around here.

[voicecoils]

Ya, I don't see any way I can get my 5404 with 3 speed to fit a 135mm dropout (even though this is what was implied when buying). I have the c-washers. I have the disk shims. I just don't have a 150mm dropout bike to put it on. I think Doc eluded to this: you could shave down the stator lip a bit so that the covers are closer together. If you look at his pictures of lowracers motor, the covers fit much closer to the spoke holes. I'll just have to wait and see what transpires around here.

I think a 135mm dropout bike could work. Remove the 10mm and 5mm spacer Crystalyte included (150->135mm) and with 2 of the 3mm ebikes.ca c-washers for wire exit protection and you're at 141mm. I think many bike frames may happily sit at that width. Any 130mm dropout (road bikes) or carbon frame won't like the stretch but steel frames or overbuilt MTBs may be fine.

Modifying sidecovers, axle shoulders or stators seems both risky and laborious.

[itchynackers]

Yes, but I believe part of the problem is with the 3-speed. You need more washer width to get to the outside of the 3 speed so it wont bind.

[wojtek]

what is the teeth range on those 3 speed freewheels?

if you run 54xx at their best, prob best solution is to have ATS drive / schlumpf crankset. Yes it is expensive, but makes the build clean, one chain line, saves space on the handlebars [no shifters], no issues with dropouts width and perfect gearing for high powered hub motor

[itchynackers]

It has 14,17,20 teeth. Should be good for about 27mph tops pedaling. Maybe a single 11 tooth is in order...?

[neptronix]

Can't fit a 11 tooth on it. It would require a custom freewheel be made just specifically for that motor.
I'm surprised that a 14 tooth fits on it at all.

http://www.vueltausa.com/components/chainrings/se-flat-chainrings.html

A monster size 60T chainring could help here.

[MadRhino]

Are there really some of you buying a 33 pounds motor and think that a multi speed freewheel is needed.

The only reason to have more gears on the freewheel is to pedal the bike when it fails. Then, with the weight it would be good to think about a 34T. My bike hadn't shifted for a year and a half, commuting and riding the mountain trails on the top gear all the time.

[Evoforce]

As I mentioned in the group buy thread, I have had trouble with the spokes being laced incorrectly in my 26 inch rim. It did not have trouble with the valve stem being non-excessable. I also believe that there should not be grease at the end of the axle where the nylon locking nut tightens. I believe this may have lead to a couple of reports of the axle being stripped possibly causing over torquing of the threads.

[Doctorbass]

Here is what i did for my etrike to keep the 11 tooth option.. I reworked the standard freewheel to remove some gear i did not wanted and also removed some lip that was taking too much width and than epoxyed them to make it hold since i removed the width that had the threads to save space.. and the DP420 work really well again

Here is the very first 5 speed freewheel WITH the 11 tooth gear!! :wink:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27108&p=393785#p393785


Doc

[MadRhino]

On a TriKe Doc , I would use a mid drive dog shift, leaving the motor with a single cog and chain binder.

[wojtek]

Treat all those figures as guides only
Go to ebike.ca and find the spoke calculator and put in your own figures for the rim you buy and measure it yourself

A few mm out can be enough to get it wrong and have spokes you can not use

i find it hard to get the necessary info from motocycle rim sellers
ERD seems not to be part of regular specs for moto industry

[Hobbit]

*cough* speaking of freewheels, would anyone know offhand where one might pick up a threaded freewheel, same thread as these rystalytes but with ½" x 3/32" cog dimensions instead of BMX(?). That way I could run the 3 speed front, single speed rear with front and rear derailiers. Seems like the easiest/cheapest solution for my particular application. Spent an hour or two googling but drawing a blank...

[MadRhino]

LBS should have a choice, but if you want to buy online you will find many on Ebay or most bicycle parts dealers.

[Andje]

Just a video of my 5403 performance... Personally, I am very very happy.

[ZOMGVTEK]

Heres how my 5404 is mounted.





The plastic spacer around the wire exit is epoxied to the axle to hopefully eliminate the occasional spinning that started to cut my hall wires. I have a mark on the top of it to easily check if its rotated, and it hasn't since I glued it. The other side has a flat washer and then locknut. The black spacer isn't really required, but helps reduce the angle the wires exit the motor.

[Rustedhen]

Checked my plastic spacer and it has been spinning. Heat shrink is cut, but not the wires.

Put a tiny drop of superglue between it and the frame (being carefull not to get any between the plastic and the cover)

Will keep an eye on it until I have the motor off next time to glue it in proper.

Thanks for the heads up.

[voicecoils]

*cough* speaking of freewheels, would anyone know offhand where one might pick up a threaded freewheel, same thread as these rystalytes but with ½" x 3/32" cog dimensions instead of BMX(?). That way I could run the 3 speed front, single speed rear with front and rear derailiers. Seems like the easiest/cheapest solution for my particular application. Spent an hour or two googling but drawing a blank...

Shimano make both 1/8" for track/bmx chain and 3/32", not the cheapest freewheels though.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/singlespeed.html

[amberwolf]

Or spin the motor backwards with the freewheel mounted, and hold a file on the side of the teeth.

[Hobbit]

Ah, thanks guys, yes, I went to a local bike shop and picked up the 3/32' size 16t and fits the thread and the chain like a glove.It was quite novel, walking into a shop and walking out with the goods instead of googling this and googling that and getting it in the mail and it's not quite what I'm after. I might need to apply that approach more often.

[Evoforce]

I see on your pictures Zomgvtek, that your spokes are also improperly laced like mine. The spoke to the outside of the hub should go over the top of the spoke laced to the inside instead of spagetting behind it which is applying side force to each spoke. I wonder if they were all laced this way on the larger rims?

[Floont]

I see on your pictures Zomgvtek, that your spokes are also improperly laced like mine. The spoke to the outside of the hub should go over the top of the spoke laced to the inside instead of spagetting behind it which applying side force to each spoke. I wonder if they were all laced this way on the larger rims?

Mine is like that too. I think they were all laced incorrectly.

I wonder how badly that will affect our use and performance of this beast?

[alsmith]

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[MadRhino]

Over crossing spokes is ugly, but not bad at all for wheel durability.
I kept the rim for I found it OK, but relaced it with rim washers.