Timma2500 wrote:Some progress...
CA turned up, thanks Jay!
Battery cover made, screwed on directly with 4 x M5 titanium screws. I'll be charging the batteries in bike this time so no need for a QR.
New seat, WTB V Speed. Same as my last bike had. My current seat cains my ass after a few kms and i end up limping the next day lol.
Placement for the CA in-frame. I'll do some cutouts for the display and buttons. It'll take some getting used to, looking at it at a 90deg angle but i only want to use it as a fuel gauge, mostly when stopping to let the HT cool down so it'll be fine.
Spokes are on the way from Ebikes.ca so it'll be wheel building time again soon, i just rebuilt Mel's BigHit's front wheel lastnight, converting it to 24" to match the rear.
SnOwy - female on the bike side makes sense, good thinking. Are these plugs able to be screwed down to a flat surface?
Yeah i think i'll go for a 37pin as well. Why do the battery medics do that, have you figured out why?
Haha yeah i'd love to copy Tench's setup, if he reveals exactly how he did it i may try to copy it. Maybe...
M3 is cool, i might have some in my RC spares stash. Tolerance will be ok, i'll muck around with it till i get it right... The cap sounds like a good idea, i'll try thatsn0wchyld wrote:yea mate m3 is the usual sizing i think. they can be a bit of a pita to get a good close fit, as you've only got a mm or less tolerance if you want the screwed down piece to be 100% flush. Mines just mounted in a pvc case so its kinda crude. you can make a basic cap for it by buying another male plug and cutting the pins off the back, and sealing it up with some silicone or similar.
sn0wchyld wrote:I'm guessing the way trench did it was with 2 blocks of plastic, with the internals gouged out to fit the wires/plugs etc, before the two halves were screwed or glued together to form one piece, with all the connections housed internally. damn it makes me want to buy a mill.
sn0wchyld wrote:not sure yet on the bm's. I've got an idea that might reduce the problem, though I need to test it before I know if it'll work at all. It would basically mean you'd use unmodified BM's (less drain current) but in balance mode, so although they take a while to balance a pack, you could set them to start from 3.9 or 4v during a bulk charge, which should give 'em enough time to balance the pack (well enough atleast). I'll let you know how it goes.
Timma2500 wrote:A quicky update:
I ended up getting some 13ga Sapim spokes through Justin @ Ebikes.ca. The HT's oem holes are waaaay too large for 13ga so a quick zip with the drill and a 3mm drill bit sorted that.
One laced wheel. My first hub motor lace-up, bitch of a job but got there in the end Just gotta do some final trueing and tensioning and it'll be good to go.
Next jobs: make a start on the torque arms, cut a hole in the frame / make internal mount for the CA, start on wiring...M3 is cool, i might have some in my RC spares stash. Tolerance will be ok, i'll muck around with it till i get it right... The cap sounds like a good idea, i'll try thatsn0wchyld wrote:yea mate m3 is the usual sizing i think. they can be a bit of a pita to get a good close fit, as you've only got a mm or less tolerance if you want the screwed down piece to be 100% flush. Mines just mounted in a pvc case so its kinda crude. you can make a basic cap for it by buying another male plug and cutting the pins off the back, and sealing it up with some silicone or similar.sn0wchyld wrote:I'm guessing the way trench did it was with 2 blocks of plastic, with the internals gouged out to fit the wires/plugs etc, before the two halves were screwed or glued together to form one piece, with all the connections housed internally. damn it makes me want to buy a mill.
Yeah that sounds about right, probably easier if you've got a mill... one day!sn0wchyld wrote:not sure yet on the bm's. I've got an idea that might reduce the problem, though I need to test it before I know if it'll work at all. It would basically mean you'd use unmodified BM's (less drain current) but in balance mode, so although they take a while to balance a pack, you could set them to start from 3.9 or 4v during a bulk charge, which should give 'em enough time to balance the pack (well enough atleast). I'll let you know how it goes.
What do you mean by unmodified BM's? Are your's modded?
Ta mate! Yeah its got bolt on dropouts but i'll be keeping them on there, can't be bothered to make complete new ones at the moment! I've got an idea for torque arms that will slip in to the dropouts so i'll work with that for now. Nah i won't be extending the wheelbase any more than i have with the front frame extension, that lengthened it by around 80mm which will be heaps.sn0wchyld wrote:lookin very shmick mate! And I've just noticed that you've got removable dropouts on that thing... that'll give you some great options for custom ones! are you going to extend the wheelbase a bit?
Were they getting that hot before you modified them? What mode are they in before 4v? Do you know how many cells each can handle?sn0wchyld wrote:I modded my BM's for higher discharge current, basically adding a 6ish ohm resistor in parallel with the ones that are already there. The main problem is they now really require a fan blowing on 'em to keep em from getting too hot (the resistors can just handle it ok, but the little fets they use get REALLY hot without some air blowing on them). So I want to wire 'em up in such a way that I can use the balance mode, and have each 6s string stay in balance with its neighbours. that way I can leave them unmodded, and have them enter 'balance mode' at around 4v or so.
sn0wchyld wrote:I found recently too that tolerance can be overcome by large amounts of hot glue. I just riged up a 5ah booster pack for my handlebars, best part is its 1 plug to parallel the new 24s 5ah pack with my standard 10ah pack, both at the discharge leads and at the cell level. easy 50+km maniac riding range now!
sn0wchyld wrote:What happened to that ple80 that you bought a while back? is that on a bike yet? I'm already thinking of other options for my mid drive build that'd make mine kinda useless, but at $300 im determined to at least use it once before I get rid of it...
Kepler wrote:Actually better to use a thin strip of double sided tape across the buttons on the CA and then re fit it. Next cut out some 2 or 3mm thick discs to fit in the holes and stick to the double sided tape. You now have some extended buttons for your CA
Timma2500 wrote:Update: I've ordered the Battery Medics and some 5s harnesses, 2 medics should do the trick for a 20s 10ah pack i think? Anyone?
Hyena wrote:Nice one mate, looking shmick!
Bolts to hold the CA in though ? You butcher
I would have used urethane or silicon or something to stick it on from the inside. Luck the rest of the build is sexyTimma2500 wrote:Update: I've ordered the Battery Medics and some 5s harnesses, 2 medics should do the trick for a 20s 10ah pack i think? Anyone?
Fingers crossed you get some good ones, I ordered 5 from HK recently and only 1 was ok, the other 4 were inaccurate as shit.
With 2 medics you can balance half your pack at a time.
Personally if you want a good balance charging solution I'd get a 10S hobby charger and split your packs into 2 10S halves and parallel charge them.
If you want to do an all in one balance connector I recommend centronics over DB25 - they're easier to plug and unplug and it's less likely you'll short pins
Timma2500 wrote: I might plug weld the holes later and take your advice with the silicon How do Stealth hold theirs in?
Yeah at $14ea for the medics, i figured it'd be worth a shot. Wow 1 out of 5 is bad luck, did you order more or just give 'em a miss?
Have you got any further on the DiamondBack commuter build lately? We're overdue for an update
I've got two Hyperion 12s chargers i could use, but i'm not sure how i can use them to charge half a pack each while keeping them in the bike... Argh, this is starting to be the tooo hard basket! Are the DB plugs really that bad?
Can you network both chargers together to charge 20s or do you charge each 10s half separately?
Timma2500 wrote:Chain device finished. 3mm carbon fibre backing plate, modified Paul's Chain Keeper and DMR roller. That chain aint going nowhere!
And no ebike build is complete without some lightening hole drilling I still wana do a bit more relieving of the Chain Keeper to sit closer to the Bash guard though.
.....................SnOwy: Do you mean you need to wait till all the cells are above 4.1v each before they will start balancing? If so, thats f*cking stupid!
Yeah righteo, i'll have a look around for these whiz bang centronics plugs....
Ouch! Those Cellpros look the goods but 2 of them starts to get expensive... Are they what you use? Hmm 2800w of charging power is tempting though!
Can you network both chargers together to charge 20s or do you charge each 10s half separately?
God i hate the electronics side of these things, give me fabricating / mechanical work any day!
Hyena wrote:Will you be running both from the one beefy power supply or 2 seperate ? If from the one check that they're totally isolated - if they are you charge up the pack as is. If not you just need to put a break between the 2 packs when charging (and you could just use a single charger for this purpose if you wanted)Basically you have the 2 10S packs inside your frame sitting there independantly with the -ve from one pack going to the -ve of the controller and the +ve of the other pack going to the +ve of the controller. But then connecting the remaining -ve and +ve together you put the packs into series (20S) and the controller powers up. You can have a battery isolator or large bullet plugs or what ever on that series link so when you break it the 2 packs are indepentant for charging purposes and you can charge them up as one 10S pack. The balance pins from both packs come to a single centronics or DB25 connector. With the connector sitting there the 2 halves are not connected together but if you plug in a parallel connection plug that puts both packs together in parallel as essentially 1 large pack for connecting to your single charger.
sshhh, there'll be calls for a public hanging if you make it public knowledge!Hyena wrote:Ah, you have 2! What a capitalist
Mate, the other people don't really want their kits or 5xxx motors delivered soon, get onto it!Hyena wrote:It's still sitting at the back of my garage sad and neglected. I was pumped to get it up and rolling then got swamped with a heap of other stuff and haven't had time yet.
Although i'd like to see you put a H40 on it, pumping 5kw through a 9c might still make for a fun commuterHyena wrote:I'm still tempted to fit a mac for maximum stealth but I think a larger DD hub will win out to make it the best all rounder. Probably just a 9C style DD though rather than the heavier H35 or H40 (as much as I'd like to)
Hmmm i've ordered mine off Ebay (black ones) so it sounds like mine could be a lottery too... bugger! I noticed the blue ones on Ebay were dearer than some of the black ones, i wonder if thats an indication of quality? I've got 2 of the older 12s EOS 1210i Hyperions, their not balance chargers unfortunately.Hyena wrote:Nah I decided to give HK the arse after that. As snowchyld said the blue ones do seem to be a bit better, I have one of those and it seems to be accurate so I've ordered another and if it's OK too then I'll get more of those. By time time you get a dud and have to buy another and hope it's accurate you're actually better off buying an entry level HK charger for $30!If you've got a hyperion though then there's little point in using the medic. I may have missed it earlier but what are you using for LVC protection ?
Tench wrote:I have also put up an explanation of my series/parrallel charging setup that you mentioned a few posts back,Here;viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39489
Tench wrote:Stealth stick the CA in with a double sided sponge tape, it worked ok for a while but one very warm day i pushed a button and it fell inside the frame so i put a strap around it made out of a section of a large zip tie and secured it with flush dome head plastic rivets.
SnOwy: If i use Simon's charging / connection system, i'll be able to use my existing 12s Hyperion charger, a much cheaper option lol. Wow no balancing till all the cells are at 4.1v, i can't think of a good reason why they'd program them that way... crazy engineers!
Did you decide what your going to do with your PLE gearbox?
Timma2500 wrote:what your describing is similar to Simon's system isn't it?
Although i'd like to see you put a H40 on it, pumping 5kw through a 9c might still make for a fun commuter p
I noticed the blue ones on Ebay were dearer than some of the black ones, i wonder if thats an indication of quality?
I've got 2 of the older 12s EOS 1210i Hyperions, their not balance chargers unfortunately.
For LVC i'll just use the controller and CA. I'll set 'em for around 3.5v per cell.
Oh i didn't mean down to cell level, i'll just set the CA and controller to cutout around 68 - 70v or so. Thats it, its going to go to lipo heaven if it's time is up either way I made the mistake with my Cyclone bike's lipo of taking it down to 95% a few times, funnily enough my 1st prebuilt 10ah pack didn't like that game and went puffo soon after... Hence the CA now to monitor the battery a little better...Hyena wrote:For LVC i'll just use the controller and CA. I'll set 'em for around 3.5v per cell.That's probably a fairly safe bet. I actually don't bother with any cell level LVC on my packs. I don't take em past around 80% discharge so unless one suddenly dies it's not going to be an issue. And if it does suddenly die then it was going to anyway
Tell me 'bout it! I bought them just before i found out the latest 1420i charger was coming to market... Hmmm, sounds like you worked the poor thing to death! Could you have just used it towards the end of the charge instead of all the way? Or do you mean you were charging through the balancer?Hyena wrote:Damn, who makes a pricey RC charger that doesn't balance ?!My very first lipo charging setup used one of those external hyperion balancers and a meanwell. It melted after a few months of use. It was the inline charging type though so was constantly bleeding away at the cells the whole time it was charging. Which is a bad idea as you don't need to balance until nearly full.
I must say i've never used andersons yet, they always look pretty bulky which has put me off them for use in confined spaces like my frames.Hyena wrote:Yep pretty much the same. I've used Andersons for the last few years for simple noob/mistake-proof connections but with higher powered setups you need to use beefier connections - like Simon has done with his custom housings. You could also use XT150s. They're not as bulky as other options and still click in together somewhat for a simple connection. If you're only bursting 5kw and not hard on it all the time you could get away with 45a andersons anyway. My daily ride has had the same 45a andersons on it for over a year and have never melted seeing peaks of 80a
Hyena wrote:Yeah the H40 would be cool, no doubt. But the 9C is sufficient. It's what I've been riding for the last few years and it's never skipped a beat and has sufficient guts for mixing it up with traffic when necessary. I'm not as confident to race motor bikes but that's what hte 5404 is for
Hyena wrote:Hard to say, when methods spoke to one supplier they had 2 differed specced units and hte ones that were $2 more had better components but they didn't advertise that. So when the gear is coming from different suppliers you don't know if one guy is making a $1 mark up per unit and the next guy is making a $2 mark up, or if they're actually different quality units. Then you get the local sellers charging double, but I'm sure thats largely markup. I would have thought they'd all be mass produced in the same factory but apparently not. The more expensive blue ones have a seperate external discharge circuit on them which is why they're more expensive. The 5w ones would suffice if you want the cheapest
sn0wchyld wrote:yea mate, im gonna finish the BB drive with the ple80. Been working on it lately... latest update here.viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33657&p=534823#p579748I'm not sure how long I'll use it for though. I'm thinking once its running reliably I'll transfer it to the norko, possibly with a 6374 instead of the 8085. That way I can get rid of the hub motor and hopefully have a much better offroad performer/hill climber. It also frees up the 8085 so I can use it to make a twin 8085 direct drive unit, possibly though a 2speed dogbox for the Avanti D8 . and if that goes well, then its gonna be twin 80100's for the norko . Thats a while off yet though.