Dude once again you missing the point
Did you see the Temperature column?
even the best EIG NMC (what Zero uses) cells are "only" rated for 1000 cycles at 25 Centigrade with a FOUR year calendar life. Try running NMC cells in Iraq without active cooling and you'll see why the military is funding Wildcat
Wildcat is baselining NMC at 50 Centigrade because NMC cells do not last long at high temp.
The fact they have a 5V (4.9V) cell that does 1000 cyles at 30 Centigrade is huge (1C discharge)
The point of all this is now we are in a 5V land now that there are a couple 5V stable electrolytes out there in the wild
"this is just the beginning – because the EM1 electrolyte is stable at 5-volt operation, it opens the door to development of a new world of cathode materials that should bring even greater advances.”
flathill wrote:Once you get to 1000 cycles the calendar life becomes the limiting factor
"The Arrhenius equation defines the relationship between temperature and the rate at which a chemical action proceeds. It shows that the rate increases exponentially as temperature rises. As a rule of thumb, for every 10 °C increase in temperature the reaction rate doubles. Thus, an hour at 35 °C is equivalent in battery life to two hours at 25 °C. Heat is the enemy of the battery and as Arrhenius shows, even small increases in temperature will have a major influence on battery performance affecting both the desired and undesired chemical reactions."
Now look at the electrochemical stability plot in the wildcat pdf and you'll see why this development is crucial for all cells
But yes the LiFe A123 is an excellent cell with both long cycle and calendar life, the wildcat CM1 is LiFe with a 70%! increase in volumetric density
flathill wrote:It is a 5V stable electrolyte good for 1000cycles
flathill wrote:the fact it improves lower voltage cell stability is just gravy on top
deVries wrote:flathill wrote:It is a 5V stable electrolyte good for 1000cycles
Well, it is an additive; not a finished product. 1,000 cycles is not good enough, IMO. Price is unknown.flathill wrote:the fact it improves lower voltage cell stability is just gravy on top
Really, where is the Real World data for that in cycles beyond 1,000 vs other commercial products already being sold? In other words, see my previous post just above your post above I quoted here.
I'm just waiting for different and new data before I could become a believer in their products.
flathill wrote:You are never going to know which batteries use Wildcat's electrolyte.
flathill wrote:I guess you won't be buying a Zero as it's 1000cycle (100%DOD to 80%) battery is only rated for 300,000 miles in the real world, or a Telsa Roadster (700 cycle battery, many 100,000+ miles cars on the road)
I'm sure you plan on going more than that on your ebike
flathill wrote:Dude you're clueless.
liveforphysics wrote:There are 5v and 6v lithium chemistries.
The problem is cycle life. If you're a primary cell, or just used for a mission, cycle life doesn't matter.
flathill wrote:The tech is real and not just for primary batts. The tech was "invented" the same way humans usually "invent", by trying everything and discovering universal principles, but now we can try faster 675 Wh/kg!!!
March 14, 2011 09:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Wildcat Discovery Technologies Discloses Fundamental Advances in Rechargeable Battery Materials Technology
Newly developed 5-volt electrolyte, cathode material boost battery performance 25-65 percent in cars, electronics, other applications
SAN DIEGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Fundamental advances in rechargeable battery technology disclosed today by Wildcat Discovery Technologies could result in battery performance improvements of 25 to 65 percent or more in electric cars, portable electronics, military, medical devices, and other demanding applications.
â€œThis is a breakthrough discovery by our development team, which can lead to batteries capable of storing much more energy than current materials allowâ€
Wildcat has developed a pair of new materials that set new standards for the rechargeable battery industry, by providing unprecedented energy density of more than 675 Wh/kg while operating in full cells at 5 volts â€“ levels beyond todayâ€™s industry standards.
Wildcatâ€™s EM1, a novel 5V electrolyte formulation, and CM1, a new high voltage cathode material, have been shown to deliver a 25 percent improvement in gravimetric energy density, and a 61 percent improvement in volumetric energy density in the electrode, compared with existing state-of-the-art battery materials with comparable attributes. Thus far, batteries made with EM1 and CM1 have expected power and safety performance comparable to lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4), while also handling more than 100 charge/discharge cycles in full-cell testing.
â€œThis is a breakthrough discovery by our development team, which can lead to batteries capable of storing much more energy than current materials allow,â€ said Wildcat CEO Mark Gresser. â€œWhen batteries hold more energy, it creates new options for design engineers - electric cars can go farther, tablets, laptops and smartphones can be smaller with no loss of runtime, soldier packs can be lighter, and implanted medical devices can last longer before the need for replacement surgery. And while our initial tests have shown a 61 percent improvement in energy density, this is just the beginning â€“ because the EM1 electrolyte is stable at 5-volt operation, it opens the door to development of a new world of cathode materials that should bring even greater advances.â€
Gresser added that the new materials are fully compatible with industry-standard anode materials.
The EM1 electrolyteâ€™s high-voltage capability is of special interest for the automotive sector, where cell development has been restricted by the inability of existing electrolyte formulas to cycle at high voltages. Current EV systems based on low voltage cells require complex and expensive pack designs and battery management systems. EM1 enables high voltage systems which are expected to reduce required cell quantities 30-40% vs. competing materials like LFP and NMC. Fewer cells and simpler pack designs translate into substantially lower costs for auto makers.
The materials were developed using Wildcatâ€™s proprietary high-throughput synthesis and screening platforms, which enable rapid discovery and development of advanced materials. For the CM1 cathode material alone, Wildcatâ€™s R&D team synthesized and evaluated more than 3000 materials in just eight months; this research may have taken years using conventional methods.
Wildcat is actively seeking licensees and partners for further development and commercialization of EM1 and CM1 and successor materials. Sample quantities of up to 1 kilogram will be available as of April, 2011.
About Wildcat Discovery Technologies
Wildcat Discovery Technologies is engaged in the discovery and development of specialty materials for clean tech energy applications; including materials for batteries, gas separation, catalysis and advanced structural materials. Wildcat has developed proprietary high throughput synthesis and testing workflows for the rapid exploration of new inorganic materials. This technology enables Wildcat scientists to synthesize and evaluate thousands of materials in the time it takes most labs to evaluate only a handful.
We'll never know if EEStor is real...but keep an eye out for EM guns that don't use homopolar generators
flathill wrote:Nice selective quoting
Here is the thread
Marines use 5v lipo
We now have 1000cycle 5v secondary lithium cells
Get a clue moron
"Obviously you lack critical reading skills and simply skim read to find the negative"
Wildcat’s EM1, a novel 5V electrolyte formulation, and CM1, a new high voltage cathode material, have been shown to deliver a 25 percent improvement in gravimetric energy density, and a 61 percent improvement in volumetric energy density in the electrode, compared with existing state-of-the-art battery materials with comparable attributes. Thus far, batteries made with EM1 and CM1 have expected power and safety performance comparable to lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4), while also handling more than 100 charge/discharge cycles in full-cell testing.
“This is a breakthrough discovery by our development team, which can lead to batteries capable of storing much more energy than current materials allow,” said Wildcat CEO Mark Gresser. “When batteries hold more energy, it creates new options for design engineers - electric cars can go farther, tablets, laptops and smartphones can be smaller with no loss of runtime, soldier packs can be lighter, and implanted medical devices can last longer before the need for replacement surgery. And while our initial tests have shown a 61 percent improvement in energy density, this is just the beginning – because the EM1 electrolyte is stable at 5-volt operation, it opens the door to development of a new world of cathode materials that should bring even greater advances.”
Once you get to 1000 cycles (at 100% DOD) the calendar life becomes the limiting factor (since at normal use DOD the cycle life will be more than the calendar life in most EV applications)
fivari wrote:How about: http://www.monash.edu.au/news/show/graphite-water-the-future-of-energy-storage
Now, Dr Li and his team have discovered the key to maintaining the remarkable properties of separate graphene sheets: water. Keeping graphene moist – in gel form – provides repulsive forces between the sheets and prevents re-stacking, making it ready for real-world application.
“The technique is very simple and can easily be scaled up. When we discovered it, we thought it was unbelievable. We’re taking two basic, inexpensive materials – water and graphite – and making this new nanomaterial with amazing properties,” said Dr Li.
When used in energy devices, graphene gel significantly outperforms current carbon-based technology, both in terms of the amount of charge stored and how fast the charges can be delivered.
chilledoutuk wrote:They will be frantically looking for ways to keep company's like shell in the loop...
Although the performance of lithium ion-batteries continues to improve, their energy density and cycle life remain insufficient for applications in consumer electronics, transport and large-scale renewable energy storage. Silicon has a large charge storage capacity and this makes it an attractive anode material, but pulverization during cycling and an unstable solid–electrolyte interphase has limited the cycle life of silicon anodes to hundreds of cycles. Here, we show that anodes consisting of an active silicon nanotube surrounded by an ion-permeable silicon oxide shell can cycle over 6,000 times in half cells while retaining more than 85% of their initial capacity. The outer surface of the silicon nanotube is prevented from expansion by the oxide shell, and the expanding inner surface is not exposed to the electrolyte, resulting in a stable solid–electrolyte interphase. Batteries containing these double-walled silicon nanotube anodes exhibit charge capacities approximately eight times larger than conventional carbon anodes and charging rates of up to 20C (a rate of 1C corresponds to complete charge or discharge in one hour).
Simply State The Range At 30 and 70 mph
A simple solution is to state the range at 30 mph constant speed and 70 mph constant speed. It still is going to be a "best case" kind of range, but at least it's easy to understand. Stop and start driving is not as important to evaluate because it doesn't majorly affect the range like in a gas car. It would be even better to redue these ranges by some fixed percentage just like the EPA does for cars.
Motorcycle riding is about having fun and that means spirited riding. The MIC test does not account for spirited riding. An electric motorcycle is eco-friendly and economical, but it should also be fun. You need to be able to pull away from traffic at stoplights and zip around cars without worrying about how it affects the range. The electric motorcycle industry has to come up with better standards that reflect real world motorcycle riding so buyers can know what to expect.
6-7 Miles Per Kwh
One way to quickly estimate the average range of an electric motorcycle is to multiply the capacity of the battery (in kilowatt hours) times either 6 or 7 miles (10 or 11 kilometers). Use 6 miles for more upright motorcycles with poor aerodynamics and 7 miles for sportbikes with better aerodynamics. For a 9 kwh motorcycle with upright riding position, that yields about 54 miles. From that number you can adjust it up or down for speed and riding style. You still have to account for how much your range will vary due to speed, but at least you are starting with a range number that is going to be closer to your average range.
100 Miles Real Range is the Goal
We think 100 miles of real range on an electric motorcycle is what most people want. This is about an hour or so of saddle time. For most riders, when a trip is longer than an hour, it's more comfortable to drive a car. Figuring the battery capacity backwards, this equates to 14 kwh for a sportbike or 17 kwh for an upright motorcycle. That's a much bigger battery than what's currently on the market, but we think that it will be the turning point for electric motorcycle sales.
Electric Motorcycle Battery
Let's look at an example of an electric motorcycle battery pack that uses this technology. This will show how significant the improvements are.
The result is a motorcycle that has over 60% more capacity than what is currently available. More importantly, it can do a real 100 miles range when ridden the way that motorcycles are generally ridden. The pack shown by the blue rectangle is to scale and is only 7 inches wide when looked at from the front. It's made thin so that the frontal area is minimized. This helps the motorcycle cut through the air like a knife and increases the range at 70 mph. The pack is about 200 pounds and the total motorcycle weight is around 400 pounds. The battery cell cost and assembly cost is the lowest possible. Service and reliability is unmatched by either gas or electric motorcycles.
Notice that the pack is rated by the cell manufacturers minimum capacity, not the nominal capacity. The total capacity is also not rounded up. Exaggeration is not needed when you can deliver 100 miles of real range.
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