PG Bikes black block clean mobile gear in parts

[crazybelgian]

I am new to this forum ,but recently i bought myselve a pg bike black block dark basic ,i am aware that the members on this forum say that the pg bike is seriously overpriced and the the blacktrail of course is. I bought my example new from the importer in the benelux for a very good price because now there is a newer model the black block 2 .I use my pg bike for driving to work every day and i have the 45km/h examle so it takes me 40 minutes to do almost 30km one way.
I already took the drive gear from clean mobile apart to see whats inside and i thought some of you would be interested in seeing the inside.Here are some pics to see more details .

[crazybelgian]

When i drove this bike i thought the battery would last about 80km when i pedalled all the time so i would get to work and back but pg bikes overrated the number quite a bit ,i could only manage about 54km and had to pedal without assisting engine for 6km ,this wasnt easy on this heavy bike .

So i called the PG distributor for an extra battery charger or battery ,they told me the charger costs 1700 euro and the battery would be 2500 euro .PG says only their charger could work to load the battery so i took the charger and battery apart .And now it comes there is just a normal 17Ah Li-ion battery in the box and there are maybe 20 connecting pins on the battery but only 3 pins have a cable connected to it.This lead me to buy a 20 dollar Li-Ion charger in China and i bought some neutrik connectors to let the charger fit on the bike .

I think PG overrated everything on their bike and they tell it is very complicated but actually it is quite simple .

[Miles]

Thanks for the pics and welcome!

Now we know they use a CPM motor..

[Miles]

Here's the original patent application for the 3 chain transmission:

[crossbreak]

welcome crazybelgian! thx for the pics, plz keep us up - I subbed nice to have the phone# of these guys btw

i once saw these CPM Motors at Mobilitec Exhibition in Hanover. Sadly they didn't sell nice to see it in an e-bike. cause thats exactly what most people want I guess

I also saw the ' e-spire ' there. Maybe it's the same construction ?? My local e-bkie store sells it f at:
http://www.obc-darmstadt.com/de/Pedelecs/Sport-Pedelecs/eSpire-basic-Sport-Pedelec-25-km/h.html

hey miles - wouldn't that be sth for you? shipping wouldn't be too expesive I guess...

[Miles]

hey miles - wouldn't that be sth for you? shipping wouldn't be too expesive I guess...

A snip, at 5,000 euros....

Too heavy for me, not to mention the efficiency - 4 drive chains and then the Nu Vinci...

[evb]

i once saw these CPM Motors at Mobilitec Exhibition in Hanover. Sadly they didn't sell nice to see it in an e-bike. cause thats exactly what most people want I guess

I also looking for CPM motor. An alibaba seller Ever-Power has 2 models of CPM motors - 6kW water cooling and Twin 8-12kW
Now I'm waiting answer from Ever-Power manager.

[crossbreak]

Too heavy for me, not to mention the efficiency - 4 drive chains and then the Nu Vinci...

And that with only 1.4kw That's at least what i've been told two years ago at the exhibition. This one should at least run 85km/h

The NuVinci is the only drive that makes sense in urban/recreational riding I'm sure. The efficiency isn't that bad. It can be more efficient than hubmotors in almost all cases.
Also a three stage reduction increases motor speed and so efficiency and reduces motor weight.

To answer the question, which concept is best for which choice, one should do a lot of simulation with real world simulation data. This is called "Hardware-in-the-Loop" simulation. Maybe some forum members should try to do this some time. I use "IPG Carmaker" software for this at university, which is sadly a bit pricey for a private person I guess.

Thanks for the link evb! I'll keep my fingers crossed

[neptronix]

Thanks for the inside look!

[Miles]

The NuVinci is the only drive that makes sense in urban/recreational riding I'm sure. The efficiency isn't that bad. It can be more efficient than hubmotors in almost all cases.
Also a three stage reduction increases motor speed and so efficiency and reduces motor weight.

To answer the question, which concept is best for which choice, one should do a lot of simulation with real world simulation data. This is called "Hardware-in-the-Loop" simulation. Maybe some forum members should try to do this some time. I use "IPG Carmaker" software for this at university, which is sadly a bit pricey for a private person I guess.

Well....

The 3 stage reduction is needed to get down to cadence rpm. The pedal chain gears up again to the input of the Nu Vinci. The Nu Vinci gears up still more in overdrive ratios... That's 3 steps down and 2 steps up for cruising speed

Any chance you could do some testing on the efficiency of the Nu Vinci at university? It would be great to have some real data.

[crossbreak]

An analysis of the nuvinci on a test bench would be great. Sadly most are too large. No chance at my faculty atm. One would have to build s special test bench for e-bike drives. A normal testbed integration platform is still too expensive. Maybe I could find a way to get this to work at my university but that would have to wait a year or two. It's not that simple to get cash for such a project. I will ask my professor in a good moment what he thinks of this idea. I now there is an old testbench for nitro model engines, but I guess the scientific value isn't very widespread. The tricky part are still the torque transducers.

A very simple way to build a testbed for e-bikes would be a hill with straight ways with different acclivity. nothing one could start a true multi dimensional DOE optimization on, but it would be feasible enough for creating an efficiency map of the nuvincy.


Sry for being so OT, maybe miles and me should start a new thread about the sense...

stepping down and then again stepping up does not make much sense I agree. But a second drive at the rear wheel doesn't look simple. Simple looks cool.

an enclosed drive looks "best" for most customers. That does not exclude each other so that's a good approach in my opinion: A "direct" enclosed rear wheel drive. Your approach already comes very close, but the dia of your belt ring is a bit too large to get a belt protection around it properly. Thats why I plan a smaller one -an adaptation of slaweks angle drive. My vision is a drive build into the swing arm, lightweight,cheap like dirt and about 1.5-2kw peak output power.

These Nuvinci drives could be made for less then a hundred bucks if mass produced (what they in fact already are).

[Miles]

I can split things off at any point...

I quite like open drives. My next will be 2 stage, for the greater power:weight, which will allow a smaller sprocket on the wheel - so, it certainly could be enclosed. Anyway, I'm with you on swing-arm drives.

I'm still keen to see you follow up on this one, though: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 27#p439227

[liveforphysics]

Wow. 1700euro ($2136) for the charger, and 2500euro ($3142) for the battery.

$5250 for battery and charger. Wow!


I could clone deathbike for just the money that battery and charger costs.

[crossbreak]

hey liveforphysics, i agree, manpower is too cheap in your business this company has the monopol in my country, we can breakup if we build a better bike. This is really an incitement

I'm still keen to see you follow up on this one, though: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 27#p439227

that's a front drive... i'm still not done with rear drives

[crossbreak]

the CPM90 smart gear drive is also interesting: http://www.cpmotors.eu/en/elektromotoren/cpm90-smartgear/

It's automatic shifting 2-speed gearbox, a bit like the one of GITech

[Athaneco]

Good day,

I ve got the same bike, black rock 1 with the clean mobile motor. Did you manage to find a suitable charger. This is a big problem for me too. The stock charger is as big and heavy a a concrete building block. I have contacted pg bikes germany about this, however i have received no reply( great after sales support:(. If you managed to find the charger , could you provide me with some info , that would be very helpfull.

[Athaneco]

pg bike blackrock + stealth bomber