Puffy LiPos (Zippy FlightMax) on receipt from HobbyKing

[cal3thousand]

Hey ESers,

This was my first order of LiPo for a project bike that I am putting together. I ordered 4 Zippy Flightmax 6s 5000mAh packs and received them last night. They were packaged fairly loosely in a box with just small cell bubble wrap and thin foam paper. The 4 packs were rubberbanded together in pairs.

It seems that one pair is puffy relative to the other pair. The good packs are solid on all 4 sides, while the puffy packs are puffed up with air under the label side. One pack being much puffier than the other. I estimate 5cc of air in one and 25cc in the other one.

I haven't tested voltages or anything and just got done reading the FAQs on the HK site (which don't help with making a warranty claim since they want LiPos sent to Hong Kong).

Anyone else come across this? Any advice on a course to take? I tried the live chat thing, but just sat there watching an animation with no action.

[Jeremy Harris]

I'd check the voltages. The chances are you've got a duff pack, not uncommon, in my experience HK send out a duff pack or two every now and again.

If you got the pack via a local HK warehouse, rather than from China, then if you push the point with HK they will, after a fair bit of a struggle, accept a return to that warehouse. If they came direct from China then it's probably best to do what we all do, chalk it down to experience and just buy a replacement pack. I usually buy one or two packs more than I need, to allow for the inevitable duff pack that will arrive from time to time. However, in my experience I've had more duff Turnigy packs than Zippy packs, and had thought that the Zippy's were generally better.

[neptronix]

Puffy from the factory is a firebomb waiting to happen. You need to call them and arrange a return or store credit immediately. It is possibly internally shorted and could vent on it's own. do not charge it. do not discharge it unless asked to by hobbyking.

Pouch cells do expand and contract according to their state of charge. the other 3 packs might be fine. pictures would be helpful here.

This is why i tell people to always order one extra. 10% of packs that get shipped out have a dud cell in them. My first order of 4 packs included one pack with an underperforming cell.

[cal3thousand]

Puffy from the factory is a firebomb waiting to happen. You need to call them and arrange a return or store credit immediately. It is possibly internally shorted and could vent on it's own. do not charge it. do not discharge it unless asked to by hobbyking.

Pouch cells do expand and contract according to their state of charge. the other 3 packs might be fine. pictures would be helpful here.

This is why i tell people to always order one extra. 10% of packs that get shipped out have a dud cell in them. My first order of 4 packs included one pack with an underperforming cell.

Oh that makes me feel all warm and puffy inside

Hopefully the firebomb doesn't happen until after I get home since they are sitting in my living room where all my toys (electronics) are located. I was thinking about ordering extra packs per your advice elsewhere. Guess that's what happens when you don't take advice from an experienced member.


Tried to take a photo last night but my phone was acting funky. Need to reflash a more stable rom tonight.

I'd check the voltages. The chances are you've got a duff pack, not uncommon, in my experience HK send out a duff pack or two every now and again.

If you got the pack via a local HK warehouse, rather than from China, then if you push the point with HK they will, after a fair bit of a struggle, accept a return to that warehouse. If they came direct from China then it's probably best to do what we all do, chalk it down to experience and just buy a replacement pack. I usually buy one or two packs more than I need, to allow for the inevitable duff pack that will arrive from time to time. However, in my experience I've had more duff Turnigy packs than Zippy packs, and had thought that the Zippy's were generally better.

Is there an email address that they respond to? Only thing I can see is the chat function and it's not all that functional in Chrome. Maybe, I'll try Firefox and see if it is a script / flash block that is messing with things.

[motomech]

which c rate?

[cal3thousand]

which c rate?

25C.

I tested voltage of the 4 packs last night and got readings of:

19.05V (Guess which one?)
22.91V
22.93V
22.93V


Here's a picture that I took last night of the puffiest one:

[Jeremy Harris]

You've definitely got a duff cell in the puffed pack, so you can either try taking it up with HK or just order another one and put this down to experience.

[adrian_sm]

You will be able to get a store credit without sending the packs back if you are patient.

I contacted HobbyKing via their support centre link on this page.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... tactUs.asp

Then supplied all the details they asked for, the key one being the actual cell voltages. This will require a photo of you measuring the individual cell voltages, with a DMM or something. Then I simply explained that my post office refused to accept shipping LiPo batteries that I would not guarantee where safe to ship. Soon after that I got a store credit for the value of the battery. I am still out of pocket for the cost of shipping. But better than nothing.

[cal3thousand]

You've definitely got a duff cell in the puffed pack, so you can either try taking it up with HK or just order another one and put this down to experience.

You will be able to get a store credit without sending the packs back if you are patient.

I contacted HobbyKing via their support centre link on this page.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... tactUs.asp

Then supplied all the details they asked for, the key one being the actual cell voltages. This will require a photo of you measuring the individual cell voltages, with a DMM or something. Then I simply explained that my post office refused to accept shipping LiPo batteries that I would not guarantee where safe to ship. Soon after that I got a store credit for the value of the battery. I am still out of pocket for the cost of shipping. But better than nothing.

I put in a ticket claim yesterday, but had not measured the cell voltages yet. I wouldn't mind store credit since I'm sure to spend more money with them.

I will take some photos of the measurements tonight.

Thanks for the advice, gents.

[dogman]

Now that you don't have to mail it back to china, getting store credit is possible. Used to be, you just wrote em off as the price of good prices.

I never order lipo from the china warehouse anymore, but the avaliability at the USA source is not always what you want. Buying extras at the time you order still makes sense. Next paycheck, DANG, sold out.

[John in CR]

I can't believe ES members are still suggesting returning known to be faulty RC lipo packs. Putting a lipo pack you know to be faulty on a common carrier borders on criminal negligence. At least HK is now taking the matter seriously and with reasonable proof of a bad pack you get credit.

[cal3thousand]

Got a canned response so I replied stating that USPS will not allow shipment to HK. Hoping they allow shipment to the US warehouse or just give me credit. Here's the response excerpt:

Hi Calvin ,

Thanks for contacting the HobbyKing Support Team.


We are sorry to hear that the items from your order #2004533044 seem defective. The items are still under warranty period, you are advised to follow the procedure and send the items back to our warranty department for inspection.

1) under any circumstance, we do not warrant crash damage or items which have been modified. This includes cutting or opening of a product. hobbyking.com® accepts no responsibility for the improper installation and use of purchased products. The warranty period for Lithium Polymer Batteries is 30 days unless otherwise stated.

2) Please open our SUPPORT page(http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/FAQ.asp)
> find “Returns & Refund session,
> click on “Warranty Support Page”
> fill out RMA form
> submit
> return shipping address


3) Do remember that NO postage refund will be available for faulty item. You are strongly advised to mail the returned item via the cheapest mailing method with tracking facilities. You are required to put the RMA number on the parcel box, so we can process your return item promptly.


4) For lipos please make sure that you have read the Lithium Polymer Warranty page (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/stor ... olicy.html)before sending items back. We do not wish to waste your time and money.

Once we have received your return, our warranty department will start inspection on the item and update report to your account. Please check your account later.

Thanks for emailing support.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Regards.
Jessi
HobbyKing Support Team
Dont forget to follow us on Twitter and Facebook for discounts and promotions!

[Ykick]

I took the liberty of copy/paste their bullet points. #8 seems quite ominous but I would keep after them and try to get this taken care of without mailing puffers around.

1) You can only make a claim for 'Under voltage' the same day the parcel arrives and prior to the lipoly pack being charged or cycled. 'Under Voltage' means that 1 or more of the cells in you pack has a voltage lower than 3v per cell. After the battery has been cycled or used, no claim for 'under voltage' can be made.

2) We do not replace burnt batteries. All batteries are checked prior to shipping, if a short on the balance connector was to happen, it would happen prior to shipping. Burnt batteries are also impossible to examine, therefore they are not warranted.

3) We do not warrant crash damage, of any kind. If your pack shows signs of an impact or trauma, we will not replace it.

4) Never disassemble your pack. Regardless of your skill level, expertise or qualifications. We will never replace a disassembled or 'inspected' pack.

5) Rapid Capacity Loss. Should your pack fall well short of it's stated capacity, please indicate to us how you achieved capacity claim. We will test packs for charge and discharge values. Should the battery have severe capacity loss, we will test each cell for maximum and minimum voltage charge as well as I/O. This can indicate to us if the pack has been over-discharged. Packs which are over-discharged will not be replaced.

6) Because of the complexity and nature of these batteries, all packs must be returned to our Hong Kong office. Packs sent to any of our warranty agents, will be rejected.

7) Packs which have a cell voltage difference of less than .245v per cell cannot be replaced. Please balance your packs if your packs appears to be unbalanced.

8 ) Should you be too concerned about sending the parcel back to us due to safety reasons. We will not warrant the pack. Purchasing any battery from HobbyKing.com, constitutes an agreement to this warranty policy.
Each battery brand has it's own warranty time limit. Our standard Lipoly warranty limit is 30 days, unless otherwise stated in the product listing.

[Punx0r]

I suppose this is the problem of overseas suppliers.

I imagine the U.S. has reasonable consumer protection legislation as we do in the UK. Under UK consumer law the pack would have to be warranted for at least one year, the onus would be on the supplier to prove the user had misused it (outside of "reasonable misuse"), would have to refund return postage, and clause 8 would be dismissed as an illegal contract clause.

HobbyKing is cheaper though, so I guess you pay your money and take your chance

[Ykick]

I suppose this is the problem of overseas suppliers.

I imagine the U.S. has reasonable consumer protection legislation as we do in the UK. Under UK consumer law the pack would have to be warranted for at least one year, the onus would be on the supplier to prove the user had misused it (outside of "reasonable misuse"), would have to refund return postage, and clause 8 would be dismissed as an illegal contract clause.

HobbyKing is cheaper though, so I guess you pay your money and take your chance

One thing that appears to save some grace is HK has been known to make exceptions to published rules. They must publish strict policies to hedge against unscrupulous customers and frauds but sticking with calm, factual and reasonable communications, post same here, there's always a chance they'll make an adjustment of some degree? I would hope so?

[dogman]

Do persist with them. I'd have sworn I'd read here of people getting a store credit without mailing them back. Don't know if that only applies to packs shipped from the US warehouse, or not.

I just figure, if the pack is going to puff in shipping, likely it does it on the way to the warehouse.

[cal3thousand]

Do persist with them. I'd have sworn I'd read here of people getting a store credit without mailing them back. Don't know if that only applies to packs shipped from the US warehouse, or not.

I just figure, if the pack is going to puff in shipping, likely it does it on the way to the warehouse.

I've ordered some more packs to make up for these, but I will continue to pursue a store credit. Hopefully, they will be be gracious on the return requirements.

[Punx0r]

Just wondering if you got anywhere with this? I now find myself in the same situation

[cal3thousand]

They allowed me to ship it to their lakewood warehouse. I am still awaiting response and / or credit.

[cal3thousand]

Just wondering if you got anywhere with this? I now find myself in the same situation

Just got a reply on my service ticket that said I was credited for the 2 packs that I sent back in.

[Punx0r]

Is that a refund or "store" credit?

I ordered from the German warehouse. I don't know if the postal service to there is by air or road. If there's a chance a puffed cell could ignite it doesn't want to be on a plane...

HK says on their website that they check cell voltage on every pack before they post it. It makes sense to do this, but I find it hard to believe two cells failed in this pack in the two days it spent in transit. There was (surprisingly) absolutely no damage to the packaging.

[cal3thousand]

Is that a refund or "store" credit?

I ordered from the German warehouse. I don't know if the postal service to there is by air or road. If there's a chance a puffed cell could ignite it doesn't want to be on a plane...

HK says on their website that they check cell voltage on every pack before they post it. It makes sense to do this, but I find it hard to believe two cells failed in this pack in the two days it spent in transit. There was (surprisingly) absolutely no damage to the packaging.

It's a store credit.

I think their request that you send it by the cheapest method with tracking implies transport by land. It might be a different situation for you being on an "island".

I would start a ticket and see where that gets you.

[dogman]

Good to hear you got a credit, but sux you had to actually send em. Seems like you could send photographic evidence if there was any kind of individual identifying sticker on the packs.

Sending a puffy back in the mail, ground or air, would scare the crap outta me. Scary enough getting em sent to me.

[Punx0r]

I submitted a support ticket yesterday.

Each pack I received had a bar code sticker with "warranty" written along the top. Their returns procedure insists this be included in a photo showing the cell voltages.

[ohzee]

If enough people were to force the issue and ask for replacements maybe they could actually do QC and check the packs
before shipping. You'd thing being that's probably their primary business they made do that.

I ordered 3 6s5mah packs recently and they were all pretty in sync , but yea in the past every order usually had at least one out of wack.