E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[cruzxia]

RST fork testing follow-up.
Dry lube did not work on the RST forks, they became sticky again.
I tested another product made by SFR which is a friction modifier, that bonds with metals and alloys. It works even better than the silicone spray and shouldn’t dry out.
I tested the RST forks riding over a ½” block of wood at about 4 mph, and they absorbed this small bump.
This is the product I used
https://www.sfrcorp.com/product/protect ... ion-oiler/
cruzxia

[QMS]

Hi guys here is a couple of pics of my side panels painted & rear mudguard still working on the front one & the T6 alloy kickstand. Will post pics as soon as they are done.

[Paul_G]

Hi guys here is a couple of pics of my side panels painted & rear mudguard still working on the front one & the T6 alloy kickstand. Will post pics as soon as they are done.

I love the way the fender is mounted close to the tire and I would like to see the front mounted the same under the fork brace some how.

How is the rear fender mounted? It looks to be bolted to the rear shock mount....if that's the case you will hurt the ride as the shock bolts would have to be tight. Loosen the bolts and spray lube the bushings and leave loose and the ride is far better

[Rix]

RST fork testing follow-up.
Dry lube did not work on the RST forks, they became sticky again.
I tested another product made by SFR which is a friction modifier, that bonds with metals and alloys. It works even better than the silicone spray and shouldn’t dry out.
I tested the RST forks riding over a ½” block of wood at about 4 mph, and they absorbed this small bump.
This is the product I used
https://www.sfrcorp.com/product/protect ... ion-oiler/
cruzxia

Cruz,

Thanks for doing the experiment on the RSTs with the drylube. I was wondering about it on light applications. I use dry lube on my 450, but I have to put it on after every single ride and like I said earlier, the percieved increase in smoothness may be in my head. That said, how is the SFRCORP ion oiler as far as attracting dirt and working after say 20 miles of wooped out riding? If its still working, I am definately gonna use it. The other idea I have been tossing around is disassembling the forks and putting some prolong super lubricant grease on the inside of the seals/tube bushings. This would keep the grease off the exposed portion of the fork tubes while keeping the the seals lubed when compressing and extending. I did this on a dirtbike many years ago. The forks were a Showa open bath and had 2 seals about 1/2 inch apart in the fork legs. I put axel grease inbetween the seals after I replaced the seals. I don't know anything about the RST Ones so maybe this isn't possible. I tried to get the pdf downloaded from the RST on their website. I am wondering if the fork is a seperate function fork, Spring/compression in one leg and rebound/openbath control in the other leg. Anybody know?

QMS. SWEEEET bomber!

Rix

[QMS]

RST fork testing follow-up.
Dry lube did not work on the RST forks, they became sticky again.
I tested another product made by SFR which is a friction modifier, that bonds with metals and alloys. It works even better than the silicone spray and shouldn’t dry out.
I tested the RST forks riding over a ½” block of wood at about 4 mph, and they absorbed this small bump.
This is the product I used
https://www.sfrcorp.com/product/protect ... ion-oiler/
cruzxia

Cruz,

Thanks for doing the experiment on the RSTs with the drylube. I was wondering about it on light applications. I use dry lube on my 450, but I have to put it on after every single ride and like I said earlier, the percieved increase in smoothness may be in my head. That said, how is the SFRCORP ion oiler as far as attracting dirt and working after say 20 miles of wooped out riding? If its still working, I am definately gonna use it. The other idea I have been tossing around is disassembling the forks and putting some prolong super lubricant grease on the inside of the seals/tube bushings. This would keep the grease off the exposed portion of the fork tubes while keeping the the seals lubed when compressing and extending. I did this on a dirtbike many years ago. The forks were a Showa open bath and had 2 seals about 1/2 inch apart in the fork legs. I put axel grease inbetween the seals after I replaced the seals. I don't know anything about the RST Ones so maybe this isn't possible. I tried to get the pdf downloaded from the RST on their website. I am wondering if the fork is a seperate function fork, Spring/compression in one leg and rebound/openbath control in the other leg. Anybody know?

QMS. SWEEEET bomber!

Rix

Cheers Rix. Got some other mods in the pipeline too

[Stealth_Rider]

Jim
Can you please post a photo of your kick stand on your Bomber. My next project is to add a kick stand, so I am interested to see how you attached your stand.
Cruzxia

Here are some detailed photos of my kickstand mounting on the Bomber.
http://www.fareinc.com/65/1/

And, here's a link to adding a kickstand on the Fighter.
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/stealth-electric-bikes/lwzBDxuVxsY/discussion

You might like to see some side by side comparison pictures of my Bomber and Fighter.
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/stealth-electric-bikes/NJ8RZTr6nqk/discussion

If you have some time you can wander around in my Bomber picture/documents folder and download anything you like.
http://www.fareinc.com/65/

Same for my Fighter:
http://www.fareinc.com/Fighter-Kirk-077/


-Jim

[Marclink]

Jim looks like you got a fighter and a bomber which one do you like better?

[Kepler]

The $64,000 question

[Marclink]

You're telling me I'm vacillating in chains the fighters been ordered up for about two weeks. Today I went ahead and upgraded to the Bomber Hoping that's the $64,000 answer...

[Kepler]

You are a smart man. Based on the fact you are not a small bloke I think you have made a good decision.

[cruzxia]

Rix
The seal system on MTB forks is different to motorcycles. There is only a single seal plus a couple of bushes on the MTB forks. They only use single seals to try and reduce the friction, so that the forks will move over small bumps with relatively light bike mass.

I lifted the edge of seals and put a few drops of SFR on each side of the seal. I haven’t had a chance to go and test it in the dirt, as it has been raining nonstop here.
I will let you know after a few weeks use.

Here is the diagram of the RST R1 forks, you can see it is a single spring on one side with the damping control in the other side.

RST R1.jpg

(177.21 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

Cruzxia

[full-throttle]

The seal system on MTB forks is different to motorcycles. There is only a single seal plus a couple of bushes on the MTB forks.

Most MTB forks have dual seals. It's the first time I see a decent fork with a single seal.

[Paul_G]

You are a smart man. Based on the fact you are not a small bloke I think you have made a good decision.

Oddly enough the Bomber rides better with a 2nd 25 lb battery on the seat post rack and I weigh 225.
The bike floats like a Honda Goldwing I would like to pick up a lighter weight spring and use more shock.
And thats with the spring wound all the way out with rebound set to fast +1 and compression set to soft +2

[Stealth_Rider]

Jim looks like you got a fighter and a bomber which one do you like better?

Ahhh, indeed that is the question Let me set the stage for an answer so you have some background. My objective was street riding at various speeds and I wanted to have gears so I could match cadence to bike speed. First a no pedaling data point.

No pedaling flat road top speed of the Bomber is 48 mph and Fighter is 35 mph.

As of today I have 3,800 miles on the Bomber and 250 miles on the Fighter. The Bomber came to me first, August 2011. The Fighter came March 2012. Had an Optibike 850R (Rohloff rear hub-self install before Opti started selling it) for about 2 years before the Stealth's, 11K miles on the Opti when I sold it.

About 4 weeks ago I got to the point where the Strealth's are both set up the way I like them for street riding. I grab either one for a short commute to the store (less than 5 miles) and for a longer ride (that's about 10-15 miles for me) at this time I grab the Bomber.

I have a few hundred miles on the 13T freewheel modification for the Bomber and I put a 7 speed freewheel, a derailleur, and a 40T chainring on the Fighter when I got it so both gearing systems are now nicely matched to my cadence capabilities (old guy cadence , max 85 more like 70-75 for street riding). Of the 7 derailleur gears on the Fighter 5 are usable (11,13,15,18,21) because of the derailleur hanger position.

With my gearing I now get:
Bomber: 70 rpm = 33 mph (13T Freewheel and G9)
Fighter: 70 rpm = 35 mph (40T Chainring on 11T at Freewheel, Schlumpf high gear)

Out of the box, however, my Bomber and my Fighter both came with a 16T Dicta freewheel (yes same on both) with a 36T Chainring on the Fighter (70 rpm = 19.7 mph in Schlumpf high gear) . For my street riding the Fighter, out of the box, was not geared as good as the Bomber. Now they are both geared well for me. Bomber shifting is precise and you know exactly what gear you are in-no phantom shifts-no multiple clicks of the twist grip shifter to get one gear changes. Derailleur shifting on the Fighter is not as good-clicks of the twist grip shifter don't cause corresponding gear changes on the derailleur. For the Fighter this is usable but not nearly as good as the precise Bomber shifting. For the Fighter I'll just live with it.

Bomber came out of the box with Triple crown forks, Fighter came with single crown. My Optibike 850R came with single crown so I got used to 90 degree handlebar turns for street riding maneuverability and ease of moving the bike around my shop. Didn't realize how much I missed single crown maneuverability until the Fighter arrived. So, I made all the Stealth's the same with a single crown Fox Van Fork. Out of the box, for me, Fighter was better for maneuvering. Now its a non issue both are the same.

Both bikes are set up as close to identical as I can make them. Seat height, handlebar position, tires (dual ply Hookworm), brakes, rear rack, etc. Close my eyes and sit on one vs the other its hard to tell them apart .

Battery range is no issue for either bike for my riding pattern. I ride, use maybe 500-600 WH at most on my longer rides, I bring it back and I charge.

With all this a background I'll answer the burning question of which I like better , with the caveat your answer may be different.

I like the Bomber better. Why? Main Reasons are:

1. The Bomber has better shifting performance, crisper and more positive. You know exactly what gear you are in for the Bomber, not so with the derailleur equipped Fighter.
2. The Bomber has more acceleration than the Fighter which I like (even old street riding guys like things like this). The Bomber goes like hell when you twist the throttle. Fighter is more refined and, if I can use the word, gentle, in twist grip power application.
3. I'm a tall guy at 6 feet 1 inch so when I sit on the Bomber the angle of viewing (my eyes looking at the Cycle Analyst screen) is better for the Bomber than the Fighter. True, its a small point but very noticeable since the CA is the centerpiece instrumentation on the Stealth's

Now, would I let my daughter ride the Bomber when she visits me. No. Too much power and the power is not well managed with the twist grip throttle. I've adjusted to the bike but lifting the front wheel is just too easy on the Bomber. Fighter-no problem. Its fast and power is well managed with the throttle. How about if ES members wanted to ride one? Well you could try either but leave me your VISA card if you try the Bomber
-Jim

[Marclink]

Jim,

Great breakdown on those two bikes as I said I went ahead and ordered out a loaded bomber and now all it is is a waiting game. Anybody is reading these posts live in the Riverside Palm Springs area?

[Rix]

[quote]
by full-throttle » Thu May 31, 2012 7:39 am
cruzxia wrote:The seal system on MTB forks is different to motorcycles. There is only a single seal plus a couple of bushes on the MTB forks.
Most MTB forks have dual seals. It's the first time I see a decent fork with a single seal.



Full-throttle, I thought that all MTB bike forks would have dual seals as well, but Cruzxia RST attachment only shows one seal on each leg. I can also tell from the attachment that the rebound is not an open bath design, but looks like a captured unit or cartridge design that controlls rebound and dampening. Hopfully I will be able to set the fork up to work for me.


Marclink, I did what you did, I ordered the Fighter in March then switched the order to the Bomber at the end of April. I am at 260# so John from Stealth thought it would be in my best interest to upgrade to the bomber. And as Kepler stated, the bomber is better for the big blokes. I just spoke with Darrin (US Rep). He said Stealth is waiting on the batteries. Then the bikes will airship from the Land Down Under and will litterally be delivered as soon as customs clears them. According to Darrin, the bikes are clearing customs on the west coast in 1-5 days. The east coast is 1-2 days. So I am waiting patiently and chompin at the bit.

[QuietRush]

I like the Bomber better. Why? Main Reasons are:

1. The Bomber has better shifting performance, crisper and more positive. You know exactly what gear you are in for the Bomber, not so with the derailleur equipped Fighter.
2. The Bomber has more acceleration than the Fighter which I like (even old street riding guys like things like this). The Bomber goes like hell when you twist the throttle. Fighter is more refined and, if I can use the word, gentle, in twist grip power application.
3. I'm a tall guy at 6 feet 1 inch so when I sit on the Bomber the angle of viewing (my eyes looking at the Cycle Analyst screen) is better for the Bomber than the Fighter. True, its a small point but very noticeable since the CA is the centerpiece instrumentation on the Stealth's

Now, would I let my daughter ride the Bomber when she visits me. No. Too much power and the power is not well managed with the twist grip throttle. I've adjusted to the bike but lifting the front wheel is just too easy on the Bomber. Fighter-no problem. Its fast and power is well managed with the throttle. How about if ES members wanted to ride one? Well you could try either but leave me your VISA card if you try the Bomber
-Jim

Great write up Jim.

Remember folks that this is based on a context of road based riding, which is not what the bikes were designed for, though I recognise people want to do this in some circumstances. The aspects of power delivery style, mass centralisation and distribution, gearing, takes a different turn when the bikes are being used in their designed capacity as off-road bikes. In that case, lighter=more manageable and easier to manoeuvre/turn/jump but has additional challenges in terms of drivetrain movement/chain slap for a derailleur fitted Fighter. I'm keen to see someone have a crack at a proper off-road comparison on a set track with a range of obstacles and do a side-by-side evaluation in that context..with the same rigour and diligence that Jim has provided. The challenge is yours..

[Kepler]

I have just completed a review on the Fighter for electricbike.com. This provides a bit of comparison information too.
Link for the review is here http://www.electricbike.com/stealth-fighter/

There is also good independent review on the Bomber well worth taking a look at http://www.electricbike.com/stealth-bomber-review/

[Marclink]

I'd like to see some pictures when you get it sounds like you'll be in the next delivery.

[Kepler]

Found this photo on the Crystalyte web site the other day. This is actually the original Bomber Prototype. How things have changed.

[Marclink]

Very cool great picture!

[Cowardlyduck]

I have just completed a review on the Fighter for electricbike.com. This provides a bit of comparison information too.
Link for the review is here http://www.electricbike.com/stealth-fighter/

There is also good independent review on the Bomber well worth taking a look at http://www.electricbike.com/stealth-bomber-review/

Ah....what?
I'm halfway through writing a review on the Fighter for the same site myself. Will have to have a word with GreenMachine about that.

Not that I mind too much. I think you of all people Kepler are in a good position to write something like this. I just don't like being mislead into thinking I will get published.

Cheers

[full-throttle]

Found this photo on the Crystalyte web site the other day. This is actually the original Bomber Prototype. How things have changed.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3822

and the 2nd proto
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3822&start=15#p61219

[Kepler]

CD, I think it would be good if you could add your write up to the article perhaps as second prospective. It must be a difficult task for Green Machine to keep the articles coming for his web site. I am sure lots of people commit to doing a write up then don't follow through. Perhaps he has underestimated just how passionate us Stealth riders are.

[Kepler]

Found this photo on the Crystalyte web site the other day. This is actually the original Bomber Prototype. How things have changed.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3822

and the 2nd proto
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3822&start=15#p61219

Now there's a bit of history for you. And even some posts from the man himself.