Punx0r wrote:It can't be that bad - it presumably passes the stringent Californian emissions requirements. I think we've reached a point where a modern petrol effectively outputs only CO2 and water. Diesel engine on the other hand...
You'd be amazed at what passed by "stringent" California emissions requirements, circa 2007.
If you think co2 and water is the only thing that comes out of the most modern gas engines, i guess you don't live in California or some other state where they give you a printout of your hydrocarbon, NOX, CO, and CO2 readouts. In a modern smog check, they are basically seeing if your catalytic converter works or not, not how many catalyzed ( less harmful ) gases your vehicle is putting out.
Punx0r wrote:That Fisher Karma is an interesting (and impressive) car. Let's not forget it's a sports car... A 2400kg car powered by a 260HP petrol engine is not going to be efficient. Now, if it had the aero and weight of a prius and a ~30HP diesel engine, you'd have an eco-car. This is my personal speculation, though.
Go read some reviews about it's performance, it's actually rather slow. Technically it looks like a sports car but the only place it really excels in sportyness is braking. It's not fast or efficient. It's the plug in hybrid version of a hummer, coming close enough to the weight of a hummer and coming within the MPG of a hummer that it would legally qualify as a gas guzzler if it wasn't for the battery. Instead, it gets a tax credit! what the !!!!
Punx0r wrote:The power output of the Prius engine was really just an observation. ~75HP from 1.5 litres isn't much. 75HP in a 1300Kg car isn't much.
You're not adding the electric motor into the equation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_(XW20)
Gasoline: 1.5 L 1NZ-FXE DOHC I4 VVT-i
57 kW (76 hp) @ 5000 rpm
115 N·m (85 lb·ft) @ 4200 rpm
Electric: 500 V
50 kW (67 hp) @ 1200 rpm
400 N·m (295 lb·ft) @ 0 rpm
Hybrid system net horsepower: 110 hp (82 kW)
Nice low end grunt!
I don't know why you equate cruising at ~80mph to Porsche performance
I'm sure there isn't a 80mph limit road in the U.S. but I recall driving on plenty with 75mph limits. IME, normal, average traffic speed is about 80mph. For those of us that don't live in the middle of a sprawling city, this is a daily occurrence (if not in a hurry). If you need to travel a distance 50+ miles) you don't cruise at 60mph, you sit at 80 or 90. In such case (IME) a 20 year old 2.0 diesel will return at least 50mpg. More modern (common rail era) family saloons will push 70mpg.
Sorry, i thought you were going to bust out the Porsche argument. I heard it coming and overcorrected
OK.. you want to compare diesel cars to priuses - you're in Europe right? See, out here we don't get your tiny diesel cars so we have nothing to compare to. We can either buy a 30mpg average ( or far less ) gas car or a 50mpg average prius.
Given that diesel is more expensive than gasoline here, and diesel cars are notably more expensive than gas cars, the Prius makes a lot of sense.
Punx0r wrote:Anyway, back to the original point I tried to make: Toyota has sold 2.5 million Prius's, mostly based on eco-credentials, not by trying to prove it's cheaper to run than an ICE car. IMHO, it's a failing in marketing if Honda only focus on comparing expected running costs.
See above. It wasn't until the last few years that anything non-hybrid other than some expensive VW diesel cars could achieve anything higher than 40mpg here on the USA market. The Prius has been the fuel economy champion by a long shot over here for about a decade. It still has better economy than anything else you can buy here, on the highway, and definitely in the city.