Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

[megacycle]

Beer powered

Fitting a kill switch to my 1st build
Lipo shorting switch, cheaper to put the sunnies on and watch my expensive fireworks show than loss of license and consequent line of work.
Edit "Yes orrificer you can take it for a test ride" ........"It was a DIY build orrificer"

imagesCADHT5TU.jpg (12.28 KiB) Viewed 269 times

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88hq0756Bkk

[sn0wchyld]

Beer powered

Fitting a kill switch to my 1st build
Lipo shorting switch, cheaper to put the sunnies on and watch my expensive fireworks show than loss of license and consequent line of work.
Edit "Yes orrificer you can take it for a test ride" ........"It was a DIY build orrificer"

imagesCADHT5TU.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88hq0756Bkk

lol. that isn't as stupid as it sounds. other than the fact that you could just wire a switch to make your bike gutless as hell. in my case, I could set a 2A limit. Given it takes 1.5A to spin the wheel, that should be enough to ensure a failure of the 20m test or whatever.
'see officer? its totally legal... I just pedal hard to get to 70km'h...

[megacycle]

I'm trying not to discount the fact that some of our blokes in blu are reasonably knowledgeable in this regard and the physical size of this donk (edit, nil to do with bottoms or appendages for our overseas chums) they will be oggling at and that 1/2 ton of lipo strapped asunder might just make it a trifle difficult flying the stealthy 50kg under the radar, even with clever little switcheroonies, they might be thinking is this guy taking the when they're booking me 50km's away from my base.

Still under construction, but i think by the time the donk and several kg of tronics is fitted and wot not
it'll be like one of those signs hanging of the back of plane.
Kinda like ,Halloo there's a likely lad. "Please bust me".
Anyway Snow please let me indulge for a sec, can't have a commando looking bike like this pig and
not wanna fit a self destruct button .
But almost finished a custom run/charge bus switch for it, so it could be an inadvertant possibilty, switch clearances 1.5mm, discharge 6 x 8Ah zippy's

[sn0wchyld]

I'm trying not to discount the fact that some of our blokes in blu are reasonably knowledgeable in this regard and the physical size of this donk (edit, nil to do with bottoms or appendages for our overseas chums) they will be oggling at and that 1/2 ton of lipo strapped asunder might just make it a trifle difficult flying the stealthy 50kg under the radar, even with clever little switcheroonies, they might be thinking is this guy taking the when they're booking me 50km's away from my base.

SANY0192 (1024x768).jpg

Still under construction, but i think by the time the donk and several kg of tronics is fitted and wot not
it'll be like one of those signs hanging of the back of plane.
Kinda like ,Halloo there's a likely lad. "Please bust me".
Anyway Snow please let me indulge for a sec, can't have a commando looking bike like this pig and
not wanna fit a self destruct button .
But almost finished a custom run/charge bus switch for it, so it could be an inadvertant possibilty, switch clearances 1.5mm, discharge 6 x 8Ah zippy's

ha always worth having a 'last resort'...
hows the wheel clearance on that box?? looks like just sitting on it would make it hit the battery case, much less going over a bump!

ps where in sa are you? i think I asked you ages ago but i forgot... srry...

[megacycle]

While i'm still on a tangent and the double malt is still talking, could make the rear hub demount itself with it's own onboard gear like the magic pie and a small pack and run off on it's own automonously, then with a lack of any substantial evidence case closed. Not altogether silly

invent_uno_main.jpg (36.51 KiB) Viewed 252 times

Might be other ways to get around this, Diplomatic plates , Stupid whiskey, i'll be off a looking for the A/H drinking thread, now

De Bono , thats another great thing about the lads on the ES, they find ways to make it happen .

[megacycle]

These zippy's are'nt small taties, they fill that box with a gnat's left over, she rides about 40mm below the big ring so i wo'nt be able to do any serious commando insurgent kinda stuff, climbing over the pavement might be it , but that's for about 1kWh, I could pop em in paniers, like T's on a B, cops might like that though "Oh look at that, that's good that is, BUST HIM".
I'm thinking Alien v Arny with the self destruct thingamy, if things are looking really bad just pull the pin, Nuek for Morbid as Sigourny would say.
3.6MJ in millisecs - losses (hate them) MUUUUHHHHAHAHAHAAH .

PM on that location, never know who's watching Reynella.

[chopper_elec]

Something i've always found is that if your not drawing attention to yourself and if your nice to the police officer they will be much more more understanding.

Mind you, I wouldn't be keen on anyone riding my bike, I just know if someone dropped it or ended up breaking something.

I would say there are more things to worry about than a few riders continuously driving 1/2 the speed of what they are capable of with a decent pedal.

We are doing the right thing by the environment and being considerate to others on the road.

I'm sure rules will become more well known amongst the officials long term as they become more popular.

I just know in the past that i'd rather pedal on my own than have 200w assisting me lol

Whenever i've seen petrol powered scooters and bicycles they seem to always grab my attention, i'm sure i've passed a fair few electric bicycles in the past and didn't even look twice.

[AussieJester]

I'm trying not to discount the fact that some of our blokes in blu are reasonably knowledgeable in this regard

The officer that pulled me over recently new EXACTLY what the laws on e-bikes were
was no fooling him, just happened to like my bike, i had no attitude and was let go to carry on my merry way...

KiM

[Hyena]

As per his build thread, the cop that pulled over Hobbit recently obviously didn't know the rules.
But as stated, a good attitude and responsible behavior are the best way to stay out of trouble.
I'll die laughing if I ever get pulled over by a chinese cop though

I got pulled over ...
I was slept in, running late with rain threatening so I was drafting a car at 60 odd kmh. I heard the wooop, checked behind and pulled onto the footpath. My guy pulls up next to me and winds his window down...
Me: Good morning *big grin*
Him: G'day mate, what's that....is it electric?
Me: yeah, that's right, it runs on batteries
Him: Is it Illegal?
Me:......It's 200watts.
Him: you were really moving there....
Me: between me peddling and the throttle I had it pretty much maxed out. (true)
Him:.......ok, have a good day,mate. *drives off*
I then tailed him for about a km or 2 peddling my arse off and keeping it under 40kmh to hopefully reinforce my "legitness" lol, before he dissappeared over the horizon. L

[chopper_elec]

I'm trying not to discount the fact that some of our blokes in blu are reasonably knowledgeable in this regard

The officer that pulled me over recently new EXACTLY what the laws on e-bikes were
was no fooling him, just happened to like my bike, i had no attitude and was let go to carry on my merry way...

KiM

I guess its all about how its handled from your side of things, and both were happy in the

What were the overall opinions of inspecting the hub motor for power ratings?

Its interesting that vehicles are not limited to under 110km an hour yet 99% of roads in Australia are that. Most of which are 60-80km an hour except for the main freeways.

I guess just because the vehicle can do 220km an hour doesn't mean the driver will do that, some will though.

[megacycle]

Looks like a lot of cops are bike curious then and just wanna have a good sticky beek and a good yarn to ebikers that's good to know probably cos were not noisy and burning 2 stroke may be a lot of pro sentiment for the cause.
If they look tidy might help too black duct tape not grey

[whatever]

just reading the eu definition of pedelecs, the maximum voltage is 48v nominal
its quite a detailed document ( the link adrian posted a few pages back is the older version ( 2009) there is a newer one out ( 2011)
adopting the eu standard by aus govt saved them a hell of alot of work.......we used to call it copying at school! bad government very naughty

[adrian_sm]

Got link to the latest? Would save me a search.

Cheers in advance.

[megacycle]

just reading the eu definition of pedelecs, the maximum voltage is 48v nominal
its quite a detailed document ( the link adrian posted a few pages back is the older version ( 2009) there is a newer one out ( 2011)
adopting the eu standard by aus govt saved them a hell of alot of work.......we used to call it copying at school! bad government very naughty

Always a few years behind. Slack and clever.

[Hyena]

we used to call it copying at school! bad government very naughty

As we used to say at uni: copying from one source is plagarism, copying from many sources is research
It'd be nice if they chose to copy the US guidelines instead!

[chopper_elec]

we used to call it copying at school! bad government very naughty

As we used to say at uni: copying from one source is plagarism, copying from many sources is research
It'd be nice if they chose to copy the US guidelines instead!

Your telling me, imagine being able to go upto 600-700watt motors. That would be awesome.

I'd be happy with a 500w limit so I won't have to change.

In a worst case scenario, how would it be proved that the bike was not pedal powered to that speed, and if the bike was rolling with momentum how would it be proven that it was from pedalling that got you upto that speed?

It seems like a lot to check on the side of the road/bike track.

If the bicycle was confiscated, would it need to be towed back to the impound?

Hyena - We have matching goggles I see

[schmidty_81]

Someone who's skilled at writing letters should seriously write to the powers that be and say that seeing as though they're just copying laws anyway, why not copy the US ones.

I can see where the 25kmph limit fits into the nanny state kind of governing that we have and it's fine (personally I don't care, I'll keep breaking the law)... But I just reckon at 25kmph max legal E-Bikes are NEVER going to take off over here.

It's probably fine in Europe where you're pottering around a small congested hilly town but the fact of the matter is Australia is really, really spread out and fairly flat also. I'm pretty sure Perth is the most spread out city in the world (not really sure how that's measured, but if you go there you get the idea). Going 25 you're never going to get anywhere.

[sn0wchyld]

Someone who's skilled at writing letters should seriously write to the powers that be and say that seeing as though they're just copying laws anyway, why not copy the US ones.

I can see where the 25kmph limit fits into the nanny state kind of governing that we have and it's fine (personally I don't care, I'll keep breaking the law)... But I just reckon at 25kmph max legal E-Bikes are NEVER going to take off over here.

It's probably fine in Europe where you're pottering around a small congested hilly town but the fact of the matter is Australia is really, really spread out and fairly flat also. I'm pretty sure Perth is the most spread out city in the world (not really sure how that's measured, but if you go there you get the idea). Going 25 you're never going to get anywhere.

they do it by measuring 'population density'. Australia as a whole is something like (dont quote me) 1 person every 70sq m vs somewhere like japan where its 1 per square foot . or where here we have about 4m of coastline per person vs about 17cm per person in the usa. but yea, the distances in Australia are notably larger than those in other countries.

The sad thing is people have been campaigning for this stuff for litillarly decades. When I first stated looking to build a ebike I found old forums from the late 90's of people who had tried to get laws changed. partitions, letters, emails, they all fell on deaf ears. I almost gave up building a ebike when I found that it'd never be legal. but then I took an arrow to the knee and built one anyway, at a mere 20x the limit...

Seriously though, adopting the USA laws would be tits. I'd happily ride around legally on 750-1kw (at least, while im on the road), or with no limit other than like 30mph for commuting. its only because 200w is such a joke of a power limit that I choose to ignore it and ride 'under the radar' as much as i can.

[chopper_elec]

See the difference here is that i'm sure most people are wanting to do the right thing but are so limited that its worth the risk.

I am not sure I could see the risk as running a red light or stealing something, but more like crossing the road safely but not through the recommended crossing points/intersections. If done safely there is no reason to harm.

Same thing with higher powered bicycles, considerations to the other users on the road. I would personally see more danger driving next to someone that was doing 25km an hour in a 80km zone than someone cruising at 40km an hour or so.

I'm not quite sure why a power rating has anything to do with it if the speed was restricted.

[Hyena]

Same reason why some states impose a power:weight ratio limit on cars and bikes for P platers. Anyone can speed on any motorbike or in any car but they figure it's the power (more specifically the power to go from slow to fast very quickly) that will get them into trouble. Which is true to an extent. As a former hoon who's settled down since leaving his 20s behind I can see why these laws are i place and I don't disagree with them. If I had the car I have now when I was 17 I'm sure I would have gotten into alot more trouble than I did anyway
But yeah, this doesn't transfer to ebikes - it's not like someones going to throw themself off the back of their illegally powerful 1000w ebike and into a pole at 60km/hr...

[sn0wchyld]

See the difference here is that i'm sure most people are wanting to do the right thing but are so limited that its worth the risk.

I am not sure I could see the risk as running a red light or stealing something, but more like crossing the road safely but not through the recommended crossing points/intersections. If done safely there is no reason to harm.

Same thing with higher powered bicycles, considerations to the other users on the road. I would personally see more danger driving next to someone that was doing 25km an hour in a 80km zone than someone cruising at 40km an hour or so.

I'm not quite sure why a power rating has anything to do with it if the speed was restricted.

yea i am meaning one or the other. limiting both is kinda stupid. the only reason to limit speed (less than whats legal on roads anyway) is that most 'average' bike components wont handle 50+km'h safely. i still remember bombing some hills as a kid on an old bike... major speed wobbles at 60km'h was scary as hell. doing 60 on my norko, a bike made to handle speed, is nothing.

[chopper_elec]

I tend to be a bit of a chicken and find even 35km an hour quite quick on a traditional bike. I've had pocket bikes in the past and have clocked up 70-80km an hour on them and that is scary enough being that close to the ground doh.

I personally would be quite happy with an extra 5-10km an hour though, as I mainly stick to bike tracks since I feel a bit safer on them than the road. I'm courteous to other riders/people and wouldn't be flying past any blind corners without looking or considering the "what if".

[Architectonic]

Obviously we need an intermediate class with additional safety standards and requirements, but this isn't going to happen unless someone else (Europe) does it first.

Electric scooters, the few that are registrable aren't a terrible idea, but your power to weight ratio turns to crap, resulting in much poorer battery life in stop-start traffic.

[chopper_elec]

Obviously we need an intermediate class with additional safety standards and requirements, but this isn't going to happen unless someone else (Europe) does it first.

Electric scooters, the few that are registrable aren't a terrible idea, but your power to weight ratio turns to crap, resulting in much poorer battery life in stop-start traffic.

Something that has always got me is that the rules aren't consistent between all types of cars/trucks etc.

For example, you need seat belts in a car but not in a Bus or a train, if I got up in my car stood out of the sunroof/convertible roof without a seat belt i'd get pulled over straight away.

[Sunder]

Obviously we need an intermediate class with additional safety standards and requirements, but this isn't going to happen unless someone else (Europe) does it first.

Electric scooters, the few that are registrable aren't a terrible idea, but your power to weight ratio turns to crap, resulting in much poorer battery life in stop-start traffic.

Something that has always got me is that the rules aren't consistent between all types of cars/trucks etc.

For example, you need seat belts in a car but not in a Bus or a train, if I got up in my car stood out of the sunroof/convertible roof without a seat belt i'd get pulled over straight away.

I work in a field that has a lot to do with risk management. And the question I hate most is "Are we secure", or "Are we safe".

What most people don't understand is that risk is always mitigated, transferred, managed, or something else. It's very rarely completely removed.

Most of our laws are structured around harm minimisation, and balancing risk versus convenience. How many people die in bus crashes each year? How many in train crashes? Compare that to how many people die in car accidents - perhaps consider how that number would rise if seat belts weren't mandatory.

People will argue that people still do die in bus crashes, and that people still die despite wearing seat belts: We had a similar conversation in your "What would you reset the limit to" thread. They've missed the point, and throw the baby out with the bath water. Somewhere, someone decided that the benefit on cars was worth it, but the benefit on buses wasn't. That assessment may be wrong, or you might disagree with it, but that doesn't mean it's a useless law.