Which battery charger is worth buying?

[motomech]

This is my "B" system and I like it a lot;

yhst-62196343123315_2215_15739289.gif (16.27 KiB) Viewed 176 times

The Thunder 1220 is on clearance at hobby Partz for $77 shipped.
IOperating voltage: DC 11~15 volts
Charge/discharge power: max. 300/40 Watts
NiCd/MH: 1~30 cells
LiIo/LiPo/LiFe: 1~12 series
Pb: 2~24V
Charge current: 0.1 to 20.0A
Discharge current: 0.1 to 5.0A
It's easy to use , attractive and quiet.
I power it with.;

$(KGrHqRHJB!E-EpGmjDbBPkHeKR53w~~60_1.JPG (32.65 KiB) Viewed 176 times

$10 to $15 shipped
Less than $100 and a couple of days in transit for a nice system.

[wineboyrider]

5 amps might be the limit for the bms on that battery, BTW.

The PS "charger" I reference can do about 9A @ 36v. If the BMS only needs 5A, then it will only load the PS charger @ 5A too. This is only stressing this 9A model at 60% of its load capacity, which means it will far outlast the other el-cheapo-est 5A charger running at or near its 100% load capacity.

The PS charger I referenced is extremely efficient, truly amazing, so it will charge much faster & waste much less energy. With 5 year warranty I'll pay the extra $30 for this charger every single time...

I am told Acuteaero found these PS "chargers", and Alan B. passed this super find on to me. Unless you need higher amps, then I don't know of a better PS charger anywhere near this price. In fact, for higher amps I would just buy two! For higher volts I would just buy two to match the volts I need. These go up to 58v.

The 24v version is perfect for charging my scooter batteries at 6s and 8s lipo! I also might get one for my 12s lipo setup...great find!

[dogman]

Just sayin, if the bms is designed for x amps input, and you give it 2x, it's your experiment.

I have no Idea whatsoever what the sunthing bms is good for. My now several years old ping bms is limited to 5 amps of charging or 5 amps of regen.

How much you can exeed that on my ping bms I don't know, I just know ping wouldn't cover damage if I did.

Then there is the charging c rate limit of the cells themselves. Again, I don't know that data for sunthing cells.

[deVries]

Just sayin, if the bms is designed for x amps input, and you give it 2x, it's your experiment.

I have no Idea whatsoever what the sunthing bms is good for. My now several years old ping bms is limited to 5 amps of charging or 5 amps of regen.

How much you can exeed that on my ping bms I don't know, I just know ping wouldn't cover damage if I did.

Then there is the charging c rate limit of the cells themselves. Again, I don't know that data for sunthing cells.

My understanding about "amp draw" is you can have 15A available for your frig at home, but the frig, in this example, is designed to only use maybe 5A. So, it only pulls 5A from the 15A available.

Same reasoning applies to the BMS that controls the charging of the batteries. You can have a 9A 36V PS "charger" ready to pump out 9A, but it will *not* do that unless the BMS is designed to "pull", "suck", or use that amount. *IF* the BMS is not controlling the charge, then you might have to adjust the current down on the PS "charger" to a level that won't damage the battery. The PS charger I'm so excited about will allow you to drop down anywhere from 9A to 4.45A @ 36v, which is lower than a 5A charger. I think that is plenty safe for direct "bulk charging" at least a 10Ah size battery, imo.

[miuan]

The PS charger I'm so excited about will allow you to drop down anywhere from 9A to 4.45A @ 36v, which is lower than a 5A charger. I think that is plenty safe for direct "bulk charging" at least a 10Ah size battery, imo.

Yes this is correct, I just would never try to charge it at 9A and rely on BMS to cut the current.

[allroads]

I checked with my buds volt meter, the battery is good at 38 ?, the charger does work and reads 42v, but the charger plug from the battery has a short with no reading. I'll fix this first thing tomorrow. I ended up using a backup 3a charger, which took the better part of the day, about 8 hrs.
Currently the battery box in the floor of the scooter is too shallow for the new height of the lifepo pack. So next week I will be lowering the battery box 3" to accommodate the larger size. This will entail some torching, cutting new steel and welding it to the existing box. I'll also add a key lock the cover.

[deVries]

The PS charger I'm so excited about will allow you to drop down anywhere from 9A to 4.45A @ 36v, which is lower than a 5A charger. I think that is plenty safe for direct "bulk charging" at least a 10Ah size battery, imo.

Yes this is correct, I just would never try to charge it at 9A and rely on BMS to cut the current.

I hope "standards" of BMS design would control the rate/amount of current the PS Charger feeds it, since it should be controlling and managing the charge in its circuit/chip design and not letting the Power Supply run wild at whatever amps it can pump out.

the charger plug from the battery has a short with no reading.

Any idea how the short was caused?

[dnmun]

what do you mean a short with no reading?

where did you measure the 38V on the battery and why does the charger voltage only measure 42V?

you need to post up pictures of what you are measuring. if the charger is only putting out 42V then it is the wrong charger, but if you had it plugged into the battery when you measured the voltage then it might make sense.

something else that does not make sense. if you charged the pack for 8hours with a 3A charger. it should only take about a half hour at most for a new pack.

can you expose the BMS too and take pictures of it?

[John in CR]

This one. Very cheap, very light and almost silent. Mine holds up well so far.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0739347377

I wouldn't want an "almost silent" charger that does over 2A except some of those open cage power supplies. IMHO you want a nice strong fan cooling your charger and they make noise. The added benefit of noise is if the fan craps out, you'll notice next time you turn it on and may have a chance to save it before the sure failure. In hot ambient conditions, like in a garage or shed during a heat wave even go to the added extent of putting a fan blowing on the outside of the charger that compliments its internal flow direction to help ensure longevity.

Good ventilation is essential. I wanted to strangle my wife when I caught her charging her laptop with the charger stuck down between the cushions on the couch. To make matters worse I see that it was so abused that the brick had exposed copper conductors at both the input and output ends. It was only luck that we dodged the fire bullet on that one, because no telling how long the hot as shit charger stuffed in the couch went on, since she said she did it because it was too hot against her. I won't even let her look at a lipo brick even though I have those 4s packs that match her laptop's 4s battery pack, so I could make a great long use booster pack for her, but no f'ing way.

John

[dogman]

Sounds more like an open plug than a short on the charger plug. Wire disconnected at the plug I mean.

[deVries]

The PS charger I'm so excited about will allow you to drop down anywhere from 9A to 4.45A @ 36v, which is lower than a 5A charger. I think that is plenty safe for direct "bulk charging" at least a 10Ah size battery, imo.

Yes this is correct, I just would never try to charge it at 9A and rely on BMS to cut the current.

I hope "standards" of BMS design would control the rate/amount of current the PS Charger feeds it, since it should be controlling and managing the charge in its circuit/chip design and not letting the Power Supply run wild at whatever amps it can pump out.

I did a little research & found this out...

The trashy truth of this seems to be disconcerting, imo... It seems if you have a cheap-ass charger or PS that comes with the typical BMS that comes with your battery, then you are getting no programming charge control over the amount of current applied to charging the battery cells. The charger or PS needs to be more sophisticated to communicate with the programmed chips/software of the "BMS" to control how the cells are charged throughout the charge cycle. I found this from a BMS company: Chargers of this type that can't be controlled by our BMS do not allow control of the charging current and therefore perform somewhat worse as exact optimal current mode cannot be selected as it depends on only how the charger was setup. Non-CAN charger is basically the charger which has no digital data transfer capability over CAN line and can be controlled by only switching it on or off via relay or contactor.

CAN charger is the charger which can communicate and can be controlled via CAN communication bus. There is no unified and widely accepted charger communication specification standard.

So, for optimal charging you need an expensive charger that can *also* communicate with your BMS programming. In this example it's called CAN enabled. When CAN type charge is selected then all communication is done via the CAN bus using special messages compliant to specific charger type. For this type of chargers BMS selects optimal charging current and target voltage for different stages of charging.

I personally would replace these cheap-ass chargers with the one I recommended in this thread upfront, keep the cheap-ass as a spare, BUT you will need to "tune" the current to the right level for your battery & BMS. Not much is digital or programmable for ebikes in a digital charger/bms combo, so analog is where were at but for a very few exceptions that cost a lot more money to implement.

[jana]

What do you think of this charger for 12s lipo?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400W-48V-8-3A-S ... 2c670276e9

[999zip999]

Is shipping and handling 28.00usd. plus 68.00 = 96.00 or free shipping ? What ?

[deVries]

What do you think of this charger for 12s lipo?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400W-48V-8-3A-S ... 2c670276e9

I highly recommend this one below instead, because it will be much more efficient in the EU at 220v volt charging...

Amazing Charge Efficiency & 5 year Warranty...

(Put two of these in parallel if your BMS & Battery can take a 13.4A charge load...)

48v 6.7A 90-93% Efficient 5 Year Warranty $116 PS Charger

[cwah]

Devrie, the problem with these power supply is that you can't easily adjust the voltage.

I've purchased the one from BMSbattery because they are the only one you can easily tweak the voltage to your needs.

[deVries]

Devrie, the problem with these power supply is that you can't easily adjust the voltage.

I've purchased the one from BMSbattery because they are the only one you can easily tweak the voltage to your needs.

This is not correct for voltages between 12v to 54v per charger. The PS charger I recommend can be tuned up/down by 10% of its rated voltage, so, for example, this 48v model can go up to 52.8v or down to 43v. You can adjust this specific model anywhere between 43v to 52.8v.

You are correct that these chargers can not do as wide a range of voltage changes, since the total range of adjustment is 20% or 10% up & 10% down.

Still, these are ***incredibly efficient*** w/excellent 5 year warranty. Man, I'm totally sold on this model of charger for the price, quality, warranty, and **amazing** **incredible** **high-efficiency**.

I know of no better overall value or "deal" at this time. The BMS Battery charger you bought is "junk quality" & **terribly inefficient** (w/insanely high shipping charges) vs these PS chargers, IMO. IMO. (Though, I have a specification pdf to back-up my opinion as "real".)

(I admit I stupidly bought the 400w & 900w BMS Battery Chargers myself. I would *never* do that again! Ever! )

[jana]

Thanks for that info, but with shipping I think this charger will be at least 3 times as expensive as the one I linked to. Do you now the approximate weight of the MeanWell?

[999zip999]

One time my vote the aliumiun case http://www.bmsbattery.com 5a. Like Dogman said Ok. All charges have a failure fate. %. King pan is the maker. I think. JUst give them the spec's and hope it comes out allright check befor plug in.

[deVries]

Thanks for that info, but with shipping I think this charger will be at least 3 times as expensive as the one I linked to. Do you now the approximate weight of the MeanWell?

If you pay high electricity rates, then the far more efficient PS Charger I recommend will pay for itself in savings with much less electricity usage & faster charging too! Man, you can't beat this deal, IMO.

You should be able to find an EU supplier for this PS Charger too. It is available from many suppliers. You could probably special order it from someone in the EU. Or, just buy it from Hong Kong.

It will weight less than 1.5Kg.

(Its packing weight is 1.88Kg.)

with shipping I think this charger will be at least 3 times as expensive as the one I linked to

Really? How is that possible?

[cwah]

This is not correct for voltages between 12v to 54v per charger. The PS charger I recommend can be tuned up/down by 10% of its rated voltage, so, for example, this 48v model can go up to 52.8v or down to 43v. You can adjust this specific model anywhere between 43v to 52.8v.

You are correct that these chargers can not do as wide a range of voltage changes, since the total range of adjustment is 20% or 10% up & 10% down.

Still, these are ***incredibly efficient*** w/excellent 5 year warranty. Man, I'm totally sold on this model of charger for the price, quality, warranty, and **amazing** **incredible** **high-efficiency**.

I know of no better overall value or "deal" at this time. The BMS Battery charger you bought is "junk quality" & **terribly inefficient** (w/insanely high shipping charges) vs these PS chargers, IMO. IMO. (Though, I have a specification pdf to back-up my opinion as "real".)

(I admit I stupidly bought the 400w & 900w BMS Battery Chargers myself. I would *never* do that again! Ever! )

The charger from BMSBattery aren't as efficiency. But they are cheap and much much more flexible.

I have multiple configuration with my lipo battery, from 37V to 100V. And I have 4s and 5s lipo I put in serie and parallel.

I don't know how a standard meanwell can ever cater for that, and I can't buy so many of them.


For example, I have now 10 pack of 4s lipo and a 24V meanwell with 10% adjustment. I will never be able to charge my 4s lipo because I'd either need a 16.6V charger (4s*4.15V) or 33.2V (8s*4.15V). I have now the efficient meanwell, but that can't charge my lipo and it's really annoying.

So I prefer to have something less efficient, but much more flexible and cheaper. And electricity isn't expensive, especially to charge an ebike. Charging an ebike shouldn't use much more power than your fridge or your computer.

[deVries]

One time my vote the aliumiun case http://www.bmsbattery.com 5a. Like Dogman said Ok. All charges have a failure fate. %. King pan is the maker. I think. JUst give them the spec's and hope it comes out allright check befor plug in.

The charger you are voting for is: That's $84 to ship to USA. Only $30 of that is spent for the actual (JUNK) charger.

I suggest other readers of this thread don't waste your "vote" or purchase on Low Quality Chargers vs much better quality & efficiency choices.

(Edits: As I admitted, see my previous post, I will not buy these BMS Battery Chargers again, when I have much better quality & high efficiency options to choose from for about $30 more than the $84 JUNK charger. If shipping could be low cost by Sea/Surface, then that might make the pricing much better too!)

[jana]

Thanks for that info, but with shipping I think this charger will be at least 3 times as expensive as the one I linked to. Do you now the approximate weight of the MeanWell?

If you pay high electricity rates, then the far more efficient PS Charger I recommend will pay for itself in savings with much less electricity usage & faster charging too! Man, you can't beat this deal, IMO.

You should be able to find an EU supplier for this PS Charger too. It is available from many suppliers. You could probably special order it from someone in the EU. Or, just buy it from Hong Kong.

It will weight less than 1.5Kg.

(Its packing weight is 1.88Kg.)

with shipping I think this charger will be at least 3 times as expensive as the one I linked to

Really? How is that possible?

It is possible because of high spipping price and custom fees.
I actually found this charger on a Norwegian site, but the price is 1151 Norwegian kroner = 190.348927 U.S. dollars
Then the 65 dollar ebay option seems a bit more interesting.
I am anyway not so much concerned with effieciency, but i am concerned with reliability and safety.Is the ebay one likely to be of low quality and have a very short life? And how likely is a low quality charger to actually start a fire in my garage?

[deVries]

The charger from BMSBattery aren't as efficiency. But they are cheap and much much more flexible.

I have multiple configuration with my lipo battery, from 37V to 100V. And I have 4s and 5s lipo I put in serie and parallel.

I don't know how a standard meanwell can ever cater for that, and I can't buy so many of them.

cwah, how is your specific BMSBattery charger going to cater for that??? Please explain how you will do this? How "cheap" & "flexible" is this to do? Explain the details, please...

For example, I have now 10 pack of 4s lipo and a 24V meanwell with 10% adjustment. I will never be able to charge my 4s lipo because I'd either need a 16.6V charger (4s*4.15V) or 33.2V (8s*4.15V). I have now the efficient meanwell, but that can't charge my lipo and it's really annoying.

Really? You say you have a Hyperion charger. Use the same Meanwell you reference above to charge this lipo. You have the solution already! Use Hyperion w/Meanwell.

So I prefer to have something less efficient, but much more flexible and cheaper.

Explain the details of that "flexibility" & "cheaper" beyond rhetorical theory to your actual application in use now.

And electricity isn't expensive, especially to charge an ebike. Charging an ebike shouldn't use much more power than your fridge or your computer.

Time is money/savings too. The highly efficient charger I recommend will save you time & money too. I want to charge fast time-wise AND efficiently too. I also don't want to waste time & more money with higher failure rate, lower quality "crap" w/o a 5 year warranty too.

IMO, your method of charging is much more expensive overall, and you've given no real world use/proof of greater flexibility too other than "on paper" that is not your actual usage or better alternatives. IMO.

[cwah]

I actually have a very simple problem:
I want to charge my 74V and 100V lipo with a simple "plug and forget". The hyperion allow a maximum of 14s. So I need to unplug and replug my harness to fit my hyperion everytime I want to charge. That's ok once a while, but doing that everytime is annoying.

With a 74V charger, I can just unplug my pack from my bike, plug it to the charger. Forget it.

And few days after, if I want to change my lipo configuration to 100V, I adjust the same charger, plug the battery. Forget it.


Not a problem at all if it's only 80% efficient as long as it saves my time

[deVries]

Then the 65 dollar ebay option seems a bit more interesting.

I am anyway not so much concerned with effieciency, but i am concerned with reliability and safety.Is the ebay one likely to be of low quality and have a very short life? And how likely is a low quality charger to actually start a fire in my garage?

How much is your Customs Fees for the $65 charger?

To me, once you pay Customs Fees, then you aren't saving much money directly vs your other concerns. I say "hell yes" buy the PS Charger I recommended for your 48v application, and I would *not* buy "the cheaper" charger you ask about. Don't buy that junk, IMO.