12 kw rc motor

bearing said:
We are going to overload his machine :( :D
Looks like we/I actually did that! Because the simulations haven't run to 100% for me since lunch. And the site stopped responding an hour ago or so. Maybe he blocked my IP (lol).

EDIT: It was probably only a temporary DNS problem.
 
Biff said:
Miles said:
Biff said:
Arlo asked why not have a 24tooth 22pole tooth design. That is a good magnetic design, I don't know why they wouldn't pick that combination.
Because there is only one winding symmetry?
possibly

It seems to be the only thing not in its favour.

I've just noticed that the smaller Joby motors used this configuration :)
 
I have actually played with that configuration the last days as well!
It's a nice config.

Maybe it's not used so often because it has more poles than 24t20p, yet a (slightly) lower winding factor (from memory).
 
bearing said:
I have actually played with that configuration the last days as well!
It's a nice config.

Maybe it's not used so often because it has more poles than 24t20p, yet a (slightly) lower winding factor (from memory).
The winding factor is slightly higher, for 2 layers. No prominent sub-harmonics, either. It's just the single symmetry that isn't good.
 
sigimem said:
What inductance has the new 28 magnet motor from phase to phase?

Is it still 8µH ? Was that measured Phase to Phase?
I don't know the new motor but it will not be to far off from that.
As for the first prototype Its 8uH phase to phase.
 
I will have a look at the measurements I took before fitting the motor to my motorbike and post them up tomorrow.

Currently I am adjusting the timing (static advance/retard) on the motor so I can do full testing. Note however the new motor is on the bike with the same controller and driving the bike and myself up to 60 km/h.

Once the timing is spot on higher speed and more current will be tested.
 
Jan Christian said:
Is it possible to get the watercooled collossus these days?
Jan, there is some more info on the "sale" thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=52083&start=125 - this is more the "development" type :)
 
On the for sale thread Acountant stated:


5 years of developent, and now we have motor that can work well with "standard" Infineon controllers, with Kelly and with the most of other controllers.

Main problem was how to put the HAL sensors inside motor, on the right spot, where signal is strong and clear.

Problem solved !!!


What does that mean for the potential buyer? I am not keen to put my 18Fet infinion on this motor since Arlo blew up so many FETs.
Is the Hal Signal so important for the power satge? I thought the low inductance would be more of a problem. :?

Arlo are you running lebowskis chip with hal sensors or the version without them (after picking up rpm)?
 
sigimem said:
On the for sale thread Acountant stated:


5 years of developent, and now we have motor that can work well with "standard" Infineon controllers, with Kelly and with the most of other controllers.

Main problem was how to put the HAL sensors inside motor, on the right spot, where signal is strong and clear.

Problem solved !!!


What does that mean for the potential buyer? I am not keen to put my 18Fet infinion on this motor since Arlo blew up so many FETs.
Is the Hal Signal so important for the power satge? I thought the low inductance would be more of a problem. :?

Arlo are you running lebowskis chip with hal sensors or the version without them (after picking up rpm)?
Plan is to have the hall option with v2.3 from lebowski but I do not plan to use it unless I find I need it. Inductance does mater and my hall sensors were lined up properly with my colossus and it would run on a 24 fet Chinese controller at very VERY low settings but still blow up randomly because they do not measure phase current and the pwm frequency is to low for the low inductance of colossus. I was going to stay out of this thread but you asked. So I can tell you the only success I had was with a more advanced controller like lebowski's or with external inductors. Remember I spent my own hard earned money to buy colossus and to buy all my controllers and mosfets and test equipment I have spent over 10,000 since getting the challenge of colossus. I'm broke because of it. But I call that the cost of my education. I just don't want to see others go down that road.
 
riba2233 said:
Have you tried kelly? Or maybe spliting it into 6 phase?
Yes I got a Kelly given to me and it lasted 5min with the wheel in the air. It was the biggest explosion I have had in my shop.
New kellys seem to run it with the high frequency firmware but they are not a great controller.
As for the 6 phase thing. I have done a lot of experiments and that was one of them but where do you buy a 6 phase controller? Or Do you want 2 controllers just to run a motor??? There is no real advantage to using it as a 6 phase or 2 separate 3 phase motors. Zero has winding split so you can do this but I think its more because they can't find controllers to feed enough power to their motor to push it. If this motor had enough inductance I could most likely melt it with a size 6 sevcon.
 
About the Kelly thing.

This is a couple of lukes posts.
They were thinking that they could call it a 400phase amp controller if they stuck 7 fets in parallel... Wrong! Lol

Kelly isn't well funded bro, I don't think they even have their own engineers. It's a little shack in China assembling the through-hole parts by hand on boards that come in from a pick-n-place yard that handled the SMT assembly, then brushing over conformal coating and screwing them together in the extrusion. And a satellite office that answers phone calls from angry people who don't know how to get a working hall-combo, or want an RMA number to mail the controllers back that released the magic smoke. That is the whole company.
On this thread discussing them taken apart. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=429502#p429502
 
Hi,

5 years of developent, and now we have motor that can work well with "standard" Infineon controllers, with Kelly and with the most of other controllers.

What does that mean for the potential buyer? I am not keen to put my 18Fet infinion on this motor since Arlo blew up so many FETs.
You completely missed his point. The original version of this motor only worked with only worked with some Kelly controllers and DIY power stages, with the Lebowski brain. Now it will work with most controllers.

So now instead of being limited to the mediocre Kelly controller you are free to choose an even more lame infinion controller if you want, but why would you want to do that? Now for example you can run it with a Sevcon, if you can afford to hire Arlo to program it for you.
 
MitchJi said:
:idea: Hi,

5 years of developent, and now we have motor that can work well with "standard" Infineon controllers, with Kelly and with the most of other controllers.

What does that mean for the potential buyer? I am not keen to put my 18Fet infinion on this motor since Arlo blew up so many FETs.
You completely missed his point. The original version of this motor only worked with only worked with some Kelly controllers and DIY power stages, with the Lebowski brain. Now it will work with most controllers.

So now instead of being limited to the mediocre Kelly controller you are free to choose an even more lame infinion controller if you want, but why would you want to do that? Now for example you can run it with a Sevcon, if you can afford to hire Arlo to program it for you.
I will belive it when I see it. They are blaming it on a hall miss alignment. Mine never had a hall misalignment and still blew up controllers if they changed the KV then maybe But still it would need to be about 50uH to allow most controllers to run it without problem so that would mean a lot less rpm per volt about 2.5-3x less...
 
Arlo1 said:
MitchJi said:
:idea: Hi,

5 years of developent, and now we have motor that can work well with "standard" Infineon controllers, with Kelly and with the most of other controllers.

What does that mean for the potential buyer? I am not keen to put my 18Fet infinion on this motor since Arlo blew up so many FETs.
You completely missed his point. The original version of this motor only worked with only worked with some Kelly controllers and DIY power stages, with the Lebowski brain. Now it will work with most controllers.

So now instead of being limited to the mediocre Kelly controller you are free to choose an even more lame infinion controller if you want, but why would you want to do that? Now for example you can run it with a Sevcon, if you can afford to hire Arlo to program it for you.
I will belive it when I see it. They are blaming it on a hall miss alignment. Mine never had a hall misalignment and still blew up controllers if they changed the KV then maybe But still it would need to be about 50uH to allow most controllers to run it without problem so that would mean a lot less rpm per volt about 2.5-3x less...

Hall placement is very important , and even though the signals from the halls may look spot on strange things can happen when motors are spun up under heavy loads.. Im not saying that the motor may have had other issues but don't blow away the fact that even if sensor signals look good don't mean that they will always be good at varying loads.

infinion more lame than a kelly :D the only good thing about kellys is the current control throttle but there are plenty of bad points.. There is nothing wrong with infinions is just some people don't know how to use/program them.
 
5 years of developent, and now we have motor that can work well with "standard" Infineon controllers, with Kelly and with the most of other controllers.
What does that mean for the potential buyer? I am not keen to put my 18Fet infinion on this motor since Arlo blew up so many FETs.

You completely missed his point. The original version of this motor only worked with only worked with some Kelly controllers and DIY power stages, with the Lebowski brain. Now it will work with most controllers.

So now instead of being limited to the mediocre Kelly controller you are free to choose an even more lame infinion controller if you want, but why would you want to do that? Now for example you can run it with a Sevcon, if you can afford to hire Arlo to program it for you.

I think I got his point but I can´t imagine running a infinion controller on the same power levels as on a hub motor is a clever idea. After all the main change to the motor was the position of the hall sensors and since I am trying to learn I wanted to know how that makes such a big difference to the power stage of a controller?
And you can´t use a sevcon because the max rpm would be much to low.
 
Arlo1 said:
MitchJi said:
:idea: Hi,

5 years of developent, and now we have motor that can work well with "standard" Infineon controllers, with Kelly and with the most of other controllers.

What does that mean for the potential buyer? I am not keen to put my 18Fet infinion on this motor since Arlo blew up so many FETs.
You completely missed his point. The original version of this motor only worked with only worked with some Kelly controllers and DIY power stages, with the Lebowski brain. Now it will work with most controllers.

So now instead of being limited to the mediocre Kelly controller you are free to choose an even more lame infinion controller if you want, but why would you want to do that? Now for example you can run it with a Sevcon, if you can afford to hire Arlo to program it for you.
I will belive it when I see it. They are blaming it on a hall miss alignment. Mine never had a hall misalignment and still blew up controllers if they changed the KV then maybe But still it would need to be about 50uH to allow most controllers to run it without problem so that would mean a lot less rpm per volt about 2.5-3x less...
I second that.
Answer is here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=64434&p=966685#p966685

To developers of this motor: I totally admire your effort, but to me it looks like you have no idea what you are doing, apart from mechanical stuff. During those 5 long years you should have solved this long ago, and I am pretty sure it is NOT hall issue. From what I can see, issue is still there. *cough* inductance *cough*


gwhy! said:
infinion more lame than a kelly :D the only good thing about kellys is the current control throttle but there are plenty of bad points.. There is nothing wrong with infinions is just some people don't know how to use/program them.
Kelly does phase-current limiting. Infineon doesn't and blows up occasionally. Few 18fets died on my arms while trying to start, while moments before they were running fine.
Kelly has current/torque mode. Infineon doesn't and this leads to jerky commuting. I absolutely hate that.
Kelly has synchronous output stage. Infineon doesn't and this leads to more heat and more prone to blowups.
Kelly has potted PCB. Infineon doesn't ans is prone to vibration. Seen many with bloken-off CAPs.
And list goes on.

Kelly is not the best product out there. Probably not even mediocre. But infineon is just silly, even compared to Kelly. Just an amateurish DIY toy, like those designed for RC toys - you buy it, have a few flights, it puffs/blows up/etc. and you just buy a new one.
 
circuit said:
gwhy! said:
infinion more lame than a kelly :D the only good thing about kellys is the current control throttle but there are plenty of bad points.. There is nothing wrong with infinions is just some people don't know how to use/program them.
circuit said:
Kelly does phase-current limiting. Infineon doesn't and blows up occasionally. Few 18fets died on my arms while trying to start, while moments before they were running fine.
Kelly has current/torque mode. Infineon doesn't and this leads to jerky commuting. I absolutely hate that.
Kelly has synchronous output stage. Infineon doesn't and this leads to more heat and more prone to blowups.
Kelly has potted PCB. Infineon doesn't ans is prone to vibration. Seen many with bloken-off CAPs.
And list goes on.

Kelly is not the best product out there. Probably not even mediocre. But infineon is just silly, even compared to Kelly. Just an amateurish DIY toy, like those designed for RC toys - you buy it, have a few flights, it puffs/blows up/etc. and you just buy a new one.


I use infineon's and have used them ever since i have been in this game , I currently have 4 that are setup on my own bikes that are set up for 7kw each also have 3 that I have setup for others running at 5-7kw and in the past I have used 6fet controller setup for 4kw I have never had one blow and it dont take to much effort to work out how to get the throttle smooth .. never had a infineon get to hot or blow out of the 10's of infineon's that I have used. They are halve the price of the kelly's but do the job just as well as the kelly, I would say they do the job better just because of the fact they are cheaper. Yes kelly has a few more things that makes it "safe" but that don't make it better in my book when all i want is something that can do the job reliably and as cheap as possible and infineon's fall into this bracket I have never owned a kelly but spoke to people that have and seems kellys have there own sets of problems.
 
Hi to all!
Great thread! Great forum!
A month ago I didn't even know that Endless Sphere existed.
I knew nothing about rc motors. I even had to google the word "outrunner" the first time I saw it here.
No, a month later, over 100 hours of reading this thread + links to other threads/videos + a lot of googling.
It was like reading a good novel, you want to read the next chapter to see what will happen next.
It is amazing how many things you can learn from this forum.
I would like to thank everyone here: John in CR, liveforphysics, Arlo1, Jeremy Harris, olaf-lampe, SplinterOz, AussieJester, markobetti, HAL9000v2.0, toolman2, Biff, circuit and everyone else who shared their knowledge with us.
I'm new in EV community, though I tried to make a conversion back in 2011 but gave up. Now I have more confidence.
Hope one day become part of the community and share my knowledge and experiences with you.
Thanks again and keep the good work!
 
I need some light weight power for my wakeboard. What about winding the collossus with 2 separate 3 phase and stick two of these on it: http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/boat-esc/alien-450a-4-24s-sport2-boat-72-mosfet-esc-hv/
would it work?
 
.....or use two of these babies: http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/100mm/tp100-inrunner-brushless-motor-rc-boat-150kv-23000w/ :D
 
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