Would this kooky idea work?

Talk about anything and everything here within reason.

Would this kooky idea work?

Postby MikeFairbanks » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:58 pm

You've all seen this by now here and there. It's called SUP (stand up paddle board). It was started in Hawaii about a hundred years ago so that surfers could bring a camera out at Waikiki and film the tourists who were riding waves in the outrigger canoes.

It died out quickly as telephoto lenses were developed, and was revived as a sport about fifteen years ago by a chap named Laird Hamilton.

Image


Notice the paddle he uses.

Now, notice these e-devices.

http://uncrate.com/p/2009/04/craftsman- ... handle.jpg

Image

Image

See where I'm going with it?

What do you think?
Stay frosty
MikeFairbanks
1 MW
1 MW
 
Posts: 1649
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:23 pm
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby cal3thousand » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:29 pm

I think balance will be an issue with the increased torque. When you paddle, your body contracts synergist muscles that help you balance as you push the paddle through the water. When using a motor, your body will have to get used to using those muscles to keep you rigid and balanced as the motor makes torque. It would have to be a real smooth build up to speed. Otherwise, I believe, it will be hard to keep it down and control it.

Now, if you had a way to "hook" it to the board when you want thrust, that may fix those issues. The way I see it, it would be like trying to hold an outboard trolling motor instead of mounting it to the boat.

Heck, you wouldn't need to reinvent anything really, just buy a trolling motor and see how it goes. I'm interested to see what kind of battery setup can be used. Might not take much since trolling motors generally run on 12V Deep Cycle SLAs.

Image
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.
User avatar
cal3thousand
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3153
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:47 pm
Location: California

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby Ykick » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:36 pm

Along the lines of a Bangkok water taxi?

040-bangkok-watertaxi.jpg
040-bangkok-watertaxi.jpg (60.67 KiB) Viewed 777 times


Or, perhaps the cordless drill approach?



In order to handle any real thrust it's gonna need to be firmly attached.
Internet Image experts...
User avatar
Ykick
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
 
Posts: 3671
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: USA

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby MikeFairbanks » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:29 pm

Well, the thing about Stand up Paddle Boarding is that eventually (pretty much a lot) the board will tip over, getting everything wet.

Some people like to SUP on flat water (lakes, marinas, lagoons, etc.), but most SUPers like to catch waves. They get into the waves much earlier than traditional hand-paddling, making so that the surfer not only gets the wave he wants (it can get competitive out there), but can get up on a plane riding and angling before the wave gets too steep.

So, using the trolling motor would probably create too much drag once he caught the wave.

Now, there's another option: Remote Control gliders have props that actually fold flat when the plane is gliding, but when the motor kicks in they become rigid (from spinning so fast) and create thrust. The rc pilot makes his plane climb to the desired altitude and then shuts off the motor, saving precious battery power for the wings. It enables the rc pilot to fly for an hour or so (more if he can find thermals), whereas the typical rc airplane will fly for 5-15 minutes.


But what about wetness. The system has to be completely submerged and inverted several times in an hour or two of surfing.


And how about this?

Image

It's a stick that you use to push a skateboard, enabling the SUP surfer to keep in shape on land and enjoy a different way of propulsion on land other than using one foot to kick.

What if someone attached a small hub motor to the end, filled the shaft with some lipos, and had a way to push a skateboard. It would be like an e-skateboard, except that the skateboard would be unaffected, enabling the rider to use the board conventionally as well as electrically. I wonder if that would work.

So many dumb ideas that one of them might just work.
Stay frosty
MikeFairbanks
1 MW
1 MW
 
Posts: 1649
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:23 pm
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby TylerDurden » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:34 pm

The prop on a stick looks like a winning new combat sport to me.
Have a Nice Day,

TD

Image
___________________________________________________________

FYI: Adding pictures?

Bored?... take a crack at the unanswered posts

Please post your Watts-at-speed in the survey.



Image
User avatar
TylerDurden
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 8617
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: Wear the fox hat.

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby cal3thousand » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:46 pm

MikeFairbanks wrote:Well, the thing about Stand up Paddle Boarding is that eventually (pretty much a lot) the board will tip over, getting everything wet.

Some people like to SUP on flat water (lakes, marinas, lagoons, etc.), but most SUPers like to catch waves. They get into the waves much earlier than traditional hand-paddling, making so that the surfer not only gets the wave he wants (it can get competitive out there), but can get up on a plane riding and angling before the wave gets too steep.

So, using the trolling motor would probably create too much drag once he caught the wave.

Now, there's another option: Remote Control gliders have props that actually fold flat when the plane is gliding, but when the motor kicks in they become rigid (from spinning so fast) and create thrust. The rc pilot makes his plane climb to the desired altitude and then shuts off the motor, saving precious battery power for the wings. It enables the rc pilot to fly for an hour or so (more if he can find thermals), whereas the typical rc airplane will fly for 5-15 minutes.


But what about wetness. The system has to be completely submerged and inverted several times in an hour or two of surfing.


And how about this?

Image

It's a stick that you use to push a skateboard, enabling the SUP surfer to keep in shape on land and enjoy a different way of propulsion on land other than using one foot to kick.

What if someone attached a small hub motor to the end, filled the shaft with some lipos, and had a way to push a skateboard. It would be like an e-skateboard, except that the skateboard would be unaffected, enabling the rider to use the board conventionally as well as electrically. I wonder if that would work.

So many dumb ideas that one of them might just work.


Well, now that you explain the issue of getting dumped often (something I completely disregarded), I think you need to think about how heavy the unit will be including battery and motor.

What is going to happen when you eventually fall? How do you keep from losing the power paddle? I'd have a hard time getting a 2lb weight off the bottom, especially if it is deeper than say 10 feet.
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.
User avatar
cal3thousand
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3153
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:47 pm
Location: California

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby chvidgov.bc.ca » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:48 pm

How about a 48V Mac motor with a prop attached on a kayak. I bet that puppy would sustain 4 knots, without much noise.
Catrike Road Rear9C 2805 KU123Sensorless CA
Devinci Vancouver Hybrid Front9C Disk
SunEZ1LWBent 20"R/16"F Bent C404 Front 48V KU123
Townie D7 Cruiser C406Front KU123 Sensorless 48v Headway
Sun EZSportCX 26R/20F LWBent C405 Front 48V 35Amp Crystalyte Start Imm
Giant Revive LX 20" 7Sp RearSusp with Conhis front. 48V KU123
Actionbent T1 trike with Rear9C2806 KU123Sensorless CA
Vision R40 Recum USS SWB
CannondaleHooligan EZEE 48VHead 60T ring Ecrazy48/15
chvidgov.bc.ca
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:52 pm
Location: Victoria, British Columbia

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby cal3thousand » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:01 pm

chvidgov.bc.ca wrote:How about a 48V Mac motor with a prop attached on a kayak. I bet that puppy would sustain 4 knots, without much noise.



Now that's an idea that I want to work on!

That way, I can go fishing anywhere and get to that secret spot before anyone else.
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.
User avatar
cal3thousand
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3153
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:47 pm
Location: California

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby El_Steak » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:25 pm

I researched this a while ago to use with a cheap inflatable boat on a tiny lake at the cottage. I'll probably go with the cordless drill approach. There's a thread somewhere on ES discussing the topic.

For the impeller, apparently one of the best choice is a 10x6 hobby plane propeller (non-folding). You can get them for 1.50$ a pop at Hobby King: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... oduct=5364
TidalForce S-750 frame
Rear 2807 in a 24" wheel fed by a Methods 100V 100A controller
LiPo config: 24s3p 15ah
All the details here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17166
User avatar
El_Steak
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:33 pm
Location: Gatineau, Quebec

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby melodious » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:07 pm

I believe electric propulsion has been trying to get a foothold of the water sporting community for a while now. This company looks legit. Their spokesman is big wave rider Garrett McNamara. Same guy who has is currently sitting on the claim to fame of riding the largest wave in history about 6 months ago off of Portugal's coast. You may be able to grab some ideas behind this. :idea:

http://www.wavejet.com/
Tern folding bike 20" wheels, front q83 @36V 20AH & 15A: 15mph sidewalk sidewinder
Surly Ogre rigid 29er, rear 10T MAC @ 50V 25AH & 40A: 30mph road/gravel/hill machine
Future builds: RC Eboard & dual suspension mid-drive+LightningRod's kit (OMG an RC pack agh!)
melodious
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:57 am
Location: East Coast, U.S.A.

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby melodious » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:28 pm

Dang. I had befriended Wavejet on facebook but I've not been on that social group for a while now. I thought they had posted a video of the insides. And ohso glorious youtube has nothing about the insides as well. :?
Tern folding bike 20" wheels, front q83 @36V 20AH & 15A: 15mph sidewalk sidewinder
Surly Ogre rigid 29er, rear 10T MAC @ 50V 25AH & 40A: 30mph road/gravel/hill machine
Future builds: RC Eboard & dual suspension mid-drive+LightningRod's kit (OMG an RC pack agh!)
melodious
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:57 am
Location: East Coast, U.S.A.

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby amberwolf » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:37 pm

Look up their patents; that will show them. ;)
Got a question that isn't personal or private? Post it in the forums, don't PM it. ;)

Wiki your techy info so it doesn't get old, lost and icky:
http://endless-sphere.com/w


Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidDrive
Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"
DayGlo Avenger, MkII


House Fire Updates Thread
User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 15653
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby 999zip999 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:09 pm

I seen a guy in san clemente take a old surfboard and bolt on a milk crate for the batteries and use a trolling motor bolted to the crate.
999zip999
10 GW
10 GW
 
Posts: 4558
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:40 pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby REdiculous » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:59 am

I think I'd want it integrated into the board so I could keep the paddle and do the throttle w/ my feet.

I put a small 3 bladed fan on a weed whacker and got my little fishing boat moving pretty good with a couple people in it. We had to pull the clutch springs out otherwise it'd always be slipping and get extremely hot (vs really hot), and we used a couple (wet) old towels to cool it. It's kind of tricky to slam a spinning prop into the water but at least then it would go more than 100ft without overheating. We were young and bored, go figure. :)
REdiculous
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:24 pm
Location: here

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby dogman » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:27 am

Laird is my hero god. Back in the day, when I was just getting started learning to windsurf, he was the top competetive windsurfer worldwide. Then he made that look like nuthin by pioneering tow in surfing at Jaws.

Stand up using a weedwhacker would be hard to waterproof. primarily because the motor is located in the lower end. But a motor on the dry end could be waterproofed, or a regular trolling motor used with it's motor seals.

Just paddling anything is cheap fun. Last spring we spent some of our fun budget on one of those sit on top style Kyacks. Perfect for light surf, or the water we have, a no rapids river or lake. Those plastic kyaks used to be quite pricy, but now they are down as low as $300-400. Very affordable summer fun.
THE LIPO RULES. NEVER ABOVE 4.3V NEVER BELOW 2.7V DON'T PUNCTURE

Ideal charging /discharging range for Lipo, 3.65v minimum 4.1v maximum

See battery technology section, FAQ thread at the top of the page for lipo noob info.

See the frankenbike longtail at the thread below.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28389&hilit=bouncing+betty
User avatar
dogman
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 27887
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Would this kooky idea work?

Postby sk8norcal » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:48 am

MikeFairbanks wrote:
And how about this?

Image

It's a stick that you use to push a skateboard, enabling the SUP surfer to keep in shape on land and enjoy a different way of propulsion on land other than using one foot to kick.

What if someone attached a small hub motor to the end, filled the shaft with some lipos, and had a way to push a skateboard. It would be like an e-skateboard, except that the skateboard would be unaffected, enabling the rider to use the board conventionally as well as electrically. I wonder if that would work.

So many dumb ideas that one of them might just work.


its been done....

http://wackyboards.blogspot.com/2009/07 ... epter.html
User avatar
sk8norcal
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
 
Posts: 3892
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:29 am
Location: San Jose, CA


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: r3volved and 3 guests